[comp.dcom.lans] Problem Using Macintosh II's With Twisted Pair Ethernet

sek@sword (Spencer Kantor) (05/31/89)

We've recently encountered some problems with Apple Macintosh's when
connected to a twisted pair ethernet LAN.  We're curious whether
anyone else has seen similar problems.

Background:

So far we've uncovered two problematic Mac II's.  Each has an
Apple EtherTalk card installed.  The only other card installed
on the Nubus is an Apple video card.  Each Mac was connected to an
ethernet LAN using thick transceiver cable coming off a multiport
transceiver prior to being moved to their new location.  Both Mac's
worked flawlessly with their former network arrangement.

Current Situation:

We recently installed a twisted pair ethernet LAN in a new portion
of our building.  We're using ODS (Optical Data Systems) concentrators
and transceivers.  Onto this segment we moved the two Macs mentioned
above, 4 other Mac II's (having an identical configuration to the 2
problematic Macs), 3 diskless Sun workstations, 1 IBM PC, and 1 Altos
microcomputer.  After some initial cabling problems, all other machines
are working fine on the new twisted pair segement.

The Problem:

The network connection is made via a twisted pair transceiver.  The
transceiver has a DB-15 connector on one side and a RJ-45 on the other.
The transceiver connects to the DB-15 connector on the EtherTalk card.
Power to the transceiver is supplied by the computer.This is in
contrast to the power arrangement when multiport transceivers are used.
In that case power comes from an outside source - i.e. they're plugged
into a 120V line.  With the Macs (and other computers) that are
functioning correctly, when the computer is turned on, power is
supplied to the twisted pair transceiver.  A red LED shows that
power is received.  With the two problematic Macs, no power is being
received by the transceiver hence no network connection is attained.

What We've Tried:

To date we've swapped transceivers including trying new transceivers as
well as those currently working with the other Macs.  We've tried tranceivers
manufactured by another company (Synoptics).  We've moved the
EtherTalk board to different slots on the Nubus (more on this is a moment).
We've swapped EtherTalk boards.  In each case the transceiver claims it's
not receiving power from the Mac.  We then carried the Mac to an office with
a thick ethernet connection which didn't require using the twisted pair
transceiver.  The Mac and each EtherTalk board worked fine.  Hence we
concluded that we're seeing some problem with the Mac II generating the
necessary power for a twisted pair ethernet transceiver to function.
We were able to put a meter on the DB-15 connector of the EtherTalk card.
With the Macs that are functioning correctly we detected 12v (actually 
slightly under but within spec).  With the problematic Macs we detected
0.00v.

Temporary Workaround:

To get the Macs in question on-line, we're using an externally powered
multiport transceiver with the twisted pair transceiver.  The temporary
arrangement has the twisted pair transceiver connected to the network
input port of the multiport transceiver and a standard thick DB-15 cable
connecting one of the output ports of the multiport to the EtherTalk card.
Everything works fine particularly since the twisted pair transceiver is
receiving its power from the multiport transceiver.

Questions:

It's obvious that no power is coming through the EtherTalk cards of the
two Macs in question.  Our questions regarding this are as follows:

1-  Is it correct that the EtherTalk card does not generate power and that
all power is coming off the Nubus?

2- Does the Apple video card require power from the Nubus as well. 
If so, how can we have the condition where there's no power coming
through the EtherTalk card but the rest of the machine (including
the video card) works fine.

3- Do you think the problem is in the power supply or elsewhere? (if so,
where?)  Again will a malfunctioning power supply still allow the rest of
the machine to operate properly?

4- Do the positions of the cards on the Nubus have any power implications.
Apple's only response so far (which we haven't tried yet) is to put the
EtherTalk card before the video card on the Nubus.  There was some thought
that the video card may be drawing too much power preventing the EtherTalk
card from receiving sufficient power.

5- In the absence of a Nubus power supply problem, what explanation(s)
can account for the symptoms we're seeing?

6- Has anyone else encountered this problem, and if so, what was your
resolution?

Sorry this became so long, I wanted to be thorough in describing the problem.
Thanks for any help/suggestions offered.


Spencer Kantor
Bell Communications Research

bellcore!nvuxr!sek
sek@sword.bellcore.com

rjk@mtung.ATT.COM (Roberto Kohler) (06/06/89)

We have had no problems connecting our Mac IIs and Mac SEs to a Twisted
Pair Ethernet Network.  We are using AT&T StarLAN 10 AUI Adapters and
StarLAN 10 Hubs.
The MAC IIs have a video board and a 3COM Ethernet board.  The AUI adapter
connects directly to the Ethernet board and receives its power from the
computer. Unshielded twisted pair connects the AUI adapter to a
StarLAN 10 Hub (multiport repeater).

Roberto Kohler
AT&T Bell Labs
rjk@mtung.att.com