robert@ms.uky.edu (Robert Lee) (06/01/89)
We are currently looking at getting Novell networks on campus. What I'd like to know is can the Novell ethernet network send mail via smtp, use the Internet protocols or is it just another protocol that can't be used to mainframe computers that are using the Internet protocols(TCP/IP FTP etc). Has anyone found better PC networking solutions? I feel that the ideal solution would address the following: 1) Connectivity to mainframes via TCP/IP? 2) File transfer to mainframes via FTP.? 3) Database sharing between PC and or mainframes. 4) File sharing between PC and mainframes. 5) Mail serving from mainframes to PC and back, something like POP? From what I've read so far in this group about Novell and mainframe connectivity is that you have to fire up programs like NCSA or some other flavour that control I/O through the ethernet card.. Also there appear to be some device support problems, I'm interested in hearing about anything good or bad about Novell or alternative PC networking in the ethernet environment with mainframes in the picture also. Thanks in advance, Robert SYSBOB@UKCC or robert@ncc.uky.edu or robert@ms.uky.edu
ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (06/01/89)
NOVELL is it's own protocol, it doesn't interoperate with the TCP protocols at all. What we do at Rutgers is exactly what you mentioned. We run NOVELL for local file service and then either NCSA or FTP Software's product for the TCP services. It works very nicely. -Ron
german@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (06/02/89)
In the here and now you will probably need to tie several things together to
achieve what you want.
Using Netware v2.15 w/ the Packet Driver shell gen program from BYU,
NCSA Telnet with the Packet Driver option and CC:Mail with the SMTP
gateway, you just might be able to do what you are trying to do. I
currently am using NCSA Telnet and the BYU shell gen program to run
Novell and TCP/IP (Telnet and FTP) just fine on 3c501s and WD8003e.
The packet drivers I have seen include 3c503, NI5010, NI5210, and
others, but I have not used them personally. As far as the CC:Mail
and SMTP gateway goes, I still have not brought all the pieces together
to try it.
In the future I hope to see SMTP support in Netware 386 which will have the
ability to run on top of TCP/IP. I think there will have to be some time
for development of the TCP/IP drivers for the workstation shells and many
of the features we want, but the platform looks very promising.
Greg German (german@sonne.CSO.UIUC.EDU) (217-333-8293)
US Mail: Univ of Illinois, CSO, 1304 W Springfield Ave, Urbana, IL 61801
Office: 129 Digital Computer Lab., Network Design Officemac@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Alex Colvin) (06/07/89)
> NOVELL is it's own protocol, it doesn't interoperate with the TCP > protocols at all. True, Novell isn't a DDN (TCP/IP) protocol. That isn't the only protocol family in the world. Or even the country. Isn't Novell based on the Xerox XNS suite?
tim@j.cc.purdue.edu (Timothy Lange) (06/08/89)
I think Novell can be based on XNS, I do know that Novell Ethernet networks out of the box are 802.3 specs. But they supply a program that changes the packets so they will use their Xerox assigned packet id of 8137. Does this make sense? I haven't been able to find someone that can tell me the difference between 802.3 and others. -- Tim Lange. Purdue U. Computing Center/MATH Bldg./W. Lafayette, IN 47907/317-494-1787 Arpanet=tim@j.cc.purdue.edu/CIS=75410,525/Bitnet=TIM@PURCCVM/Fidonet=1:201/30
dab@ftp.COM (Dave Bridgham) (06/08/89)
The headers on Novell packets are a whole lot like XNS headers. The difference is that they don't allocate their well known sockets (or whatever XNS calls them) from Xerox but just allocate their own from numbers greater than 0x8000 and they don't use the packet type for XNS. As a matter of fact, by default they don't use any packet type at all. They take the IEEE 802.3 path of putting a length in the type field. Because they don't then go on to use the 802.2 header to put a type field back in, the default Novell packet format won't co-exist with other 802.2 packets on an ethernet. For those people who need this Novell added the ability to configure their software (using the ECONFIG command) to use the type field as it was originally intended (using ether type 8137). This change is also needed to make Novell work with something like the Packet Driver (which demuxes packets by the type field). Since Novell can use a packet type, it then also has a third possible encapsulation for use on those networks which really want only 802 packets running about. In this scheme, the type field is a length, it's followed then by a 3 bytes SAP header and a 5 byte SNAP header (see RFC1042 for the details). The SNAP header contains the 2 byte ether type and everything looks like ethernet from there out (except the MTU has shrunk a little). I havn't heard of anyone using this scheme yet. David Bridgham FTP Software, Inc.
dab@ftp.COM (Dave Bridgham) (06/09/89)
In my previous message I described three possible encapsulations of Novell packets on Ethernet. I missed one. There is a fourth encapsulation called the ISO compatible Novell (which seems much less compatible with ISO than the third scheme I described but it's used which the RFC1042 scheme is not). This encapsulation puts a length in the type field, has two bytes which look like the source and destination SAPs of a SAP header (the bytes are both 0x11 in the packet dumps I have) and then start off the XNS header with a checksum of 0xFFFF (the flags and unnumbered data fields of the SAP header seem to be missing). David Bridgham FTP Software, Inc.
haas@wasatch.utah.edu (Walt Haas) (06/09/89)
In article <9585@j.cc.purdue.edu> tim@j.cc.purdue.edu (Timothy Lange) writes: > ... I do know that Novell Ethernet networks out of the box are 802.3 specs. > But they supply a program that changes the packets so they will use their > Xerox assigned packet id of 8137. Does this make sense? I haven't been > able to find someone that can tell me the difference between 802.3 and > others. The difference between Ethernet packet format and IEEE 802.3 packet format is that: * in an Ethernet packet the first 16 bits after the addresses contains the protocol type, and you have to infer the length of data. * in an 802.3 packet the first 16 bits after the addresses contains the length of the data, and you have to have other means to determine the protocol. On a physical Ethernet that carries packets of various protocols, e.g. Novell, DECnet, IP etc., the receiver of a packet must be able to determine the protocol. This is done by testing the protocol type in Ethernet packets. In 802.3 packets the problem is a little harder -- it is customary for the 802.3 data field to in turn contain an 802.2 packet whose header specifies the protocol. For example IP would be carried in an 802.2 Type 1 LLC datagram with SSAP and DSAP values indicating IP. Unfortunately Novell apparently didn't use this convention, making it impossible to use their 802.3 framing on a network with other 802.3-framed protocols. Therefore it's safest to configure your Novell network to use Ethernet framing. Cheers -- Walt Haas haas@cs.utah.edu utah-cs!haas
scotth@grebyn.COM (Scott Hutchinson) (06/14/89)
The difference between ethernet and the 802.3 spec is the type
field. in the ethernet world you have a type field, in 802.3 it's a
length field.
--
-Scott H. Hutchinson
Standard Disclamers: These opinions are mine, they do not reflect on my
Company at all.
I can be reached at scotth@grebyn.com or grebyn!scotthf0057@uafhp.uucp (James E. Ward) (06/15/89)
We have an existing Novell network with ~40 PC clones using AST ethernet cards. We also have an existing IBM AS/400 which supports Token-ring. Can anyone tell me about connecting the Novell network to the AS/400. I have heard of putting a Token-ring card in the file-server and connecting it to the 400. Will this work? Do you then have to use PC Support somehow to get to the Big Blue Box? We HAD a gateway at one point, but were VERY unhappy with the performance and GAPING security holes it had. Any information you could give me will be much appreciated! Thanks in advance. James E. Ward f0057@uafhp.uucp