baw@sharkey.cc.umich.edu (Brian Wolfe) (07/25/89)
Well, here it is, a summary of the Ethernet bridge recommendations
I've received from the net. Thanks to all for their suggestions,
now it looks like I can make a more educated decision...
Thanks so much,
Brian.
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Brian Wolfe Internet: baw@terminator.cc.umich.edu
Systems Analyst UUCP: {rutgers,uunet}!sharkey!hfhrv!brian
Henry Ford Hospital Voice: (313)-876-7461
Detroit, MI 48202 FAX: (313)-875-0315
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From: Brad Turner <mbt@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM>
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans
Organization: 3Com Corp., Mt. View, CA
In article <2926@sharkey.cc.umich.edu> you write:
>
>Are there any bridges that I should avoid like the plague?
>
Brian,
Check out 3Com's IB/2000 and IB/2001 MAC layer bridges. While you are
evaluating the bridges from all vendors in addition to looking at the
packets/sec figures see what sort of filtering and management features are
available. The software that is running the bridge is where you really
want to focus your attention. You can get more info on the 3Com product
line by calling 1-800-NET-3COM
-brad-
--
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Brad Turner 2081 Shoreline Blvd. (415) 969-2099 | I speak for myself
3Com Corp. Mtn. View, CA 95043 mbt@bridge2 | NOT for my employer.
From: ian@lassen.wpd.sgi.com (Ian Clements)
Subject: Re: Ethernet Bridge Recommendations?
You might look at cisco Systems for bridge products. They enjoy a good
reputation in 'netland'. Then there's always Vitalink (expensive but, you
get wehat you pay for), 3Com (used to Bridge--avoid like plague).
cisco Systems:
1360 Willow Road
Menlo Park, CA 94025
415/326 1941
eileen@mathom.cisco.com (Our Sales rep)
Vitalink:
6607 Kaiser Drive.
Fremont, CA 94536
415/794 1100
3Com (Bridge):
181 Metro Drive, Suite 600
San Jose, CA 95110
408/452 2900
James Leslie (Again, our rep)
Cheers,
Ian
From: sms@WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM (Steven M. Schultz)
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans
Organization: Contel Federal Systems
In article <2926@sharkey.cc.umich.edu> you write:
>
>I have about $6000 (at most $8000) to bridge 3 standard ethernet subnets,
>so far the best deal I can find is on 2 of Retix' low-end bridges that
>are rated for 6000 'frames/second'... is that fast enough for joining segments
>that have about 10 hosts each?? Security is something of an issue since
>there is clinical data on some hosts and research data on others, so I would
>like some control over access.
The Retix bridges are fantastic! We've been using them here for
some time now, and have had 0 problems.
Yes, they can be used to bridge segments that have 10 hosts - one
site i maintain has 3 segments with numbers of hosts ranging from
5 to 10 and everything is fine.
Steven M. Schultz
sms@wlv.imsd.contel.com
From: steve@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Steve DeJarnett)
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans
Organization: Lab Rat Rumpus Room -- Cal Poly SLO
In article <2926@sharkey.cc.umich.edu> you write:
>So far I've looked at bridges from Micom, Raycom, Retix and DEC, are there
>any other vendors that I should try?
I don't remember what their prices are, but you should look into
cisco bridges. They are fast (I think something like 10K-12K frames/sec).
They are on the Internet (cisco.com), so you should be able to get some info
from them. We use their routers and haven't had any problems (except one to
do with a huge X.25 network that uncovered a major bug in their software, but
they fixed it in 2 days and had a patch to us for free -- their good about
customer service).
>Henry Ford Hospital Voice: (313)-876-7461
>Detroit, MI 48202 FAX: (313)-875-0315
Good old Henry Ford. My birthplace.
Good luck in your search.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Steve DeJarnett | Smart Mailers -> steve@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU |
| Computer Systems Lab | Dumb Mailers -> ..!ucbvax!voder!polyslo!steve |
| Cal Poly State Univ. |------------------------------------------------|
| San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 | BITNET = Because Idiots Type NETwork |
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From: paul%gill.uucp@uunet.UU.NET (Paul Nordstrom)
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans
Organization: Gill & Co., L.P., San Francisco
In article <2926@sharkey.cc.umich.edu> you write:
>
>I have about $6000 (at most $8000) to bridge 3 standard ethernet subnets,
>so far the best deal I can find is on 2 of Retix' low-end bridges that
>are rated for 6000 'frames/second'... is that fast enough for joining segments
>that have about 10 hosts each?? Security is something of an issue since
>there is clinical data on some hosts and research data on others, so I would
>like some control over access.
>
>So far I've looked at bridges from Micom, Raycom, Retix and DEC, are there
>any other vendors that I should try?
>
>Are there any bridges that I should avoid like the plague?
>
>I would appreciate any recommendations you may have and I will gladly
>post a summary to the net!
>
I have been doing considerable work with respect to bridging my 2 ethernets. One is in San Francisco and one is in Chicago, so my problem is a little more complicated than yours (I presume your nets are all local). At any rate, all I have to offer is that my actual experience so far is with Microcomm, with whom I have only had problems; however, many if not most of those are related to the long distance nature of my bridge. I also would suggest that you add Wellfleet to your list of bridges considered.
I have heard that they have good products and a new low end model.
I would be interested in what you find. If you don't post to the net, I would appreciate mail.
Paul Nordstrom
Gill & Co., L.P.
uunet!gill!paul
To: baw@terminator.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans
Organization: Northwestern Univ. Evanston, Il.
Hello,
Just thought that I would put my 2 cents worth in. If you are
expecting to connect IP networks, you may want to use a router.
We have been using code here that turns a PC into a IP router.
With this you can put together a IP router for about $800. (by
using an XT). This router will have a throughput of 1000 Packets/sec.
(you can use a faster AT clone and get 5000 Packets/sec).
Thus, if it is price that decided that you should go with a
bridge, I would reconsider. If you need to pass Decnet or XNS or
other non-IP protocols, well, thats different.
Let me know if you are interested and I can tell you where to
get the software.
Vance Morrison
Network Administrator
Northewestern Univ.
From: jeff%b11%ingr.uucp@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
>
> I have about $6000 (at most $8000) to bridge 3 standard ethernet subnets,
> so far the best deal I can find is on 2 of Retix' low-end bridges that
> are rated for 6000 'frames/second'... is that fast enough for joining segments
> that have about 10 hosts each??
Should be.
Security is something of an issue since
> there is clinical data on some hosts and research data on others, so I would
> like some control over access.
The low end retix bridge doesn't have any managament capabilities. In
addition, they base their routing table on the last 2 bytes in the
ethernet address (can be a problem. Our ethernet addresses increment
the 2nd and 3rd byte, the last byte remains 00).
BICC and CMC also make bridges (CMC is low in performance, high in
security). I cannot recommend any of these products. Hope this helps.
From: George Marshall <mar@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM>
Subject: Re: Ethernet Bridge Recommendation?
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.lans
Organization: 3Com Corp., Mt. View, CA
Brian, 3Com has a family of local (ethernet to ethernet) and remote (ethernet
to telecom line with a lot of nice features, including lots of security
features that prvide considerable control over whose packets can go thru the
bridge. The lowest price local bridge has a list price of about $5K, you can
probably get it for less.
Call 800-net-3com for starter info.
George
From: bob@rel.mi.org (Bob Leffler)
Subject: Re: Ethernet Bridge Recommendation?
Take a look at Cabletron.......
Their low end bridge may be within your budget. I don't have a number handy,
but they have a local sales office on Orchard Lake in Farmington Hills.
They can advise you with your speed concerns.
Ask for Rudy Schmidt.
bob
---
Bob Leffler - Electronic Data Systems, Financial Information Services Division
3044 West Grand Blvd., Room 11-101, Detroit, MI 48202 (313) 556-4474
bob@rel.mi.org or {uunet!edsews, rutgers, sharkey}!rel!bob
Opinions expressed may not be those of my employer.
From: brf@philabs.Philips.Com (Bill Friday)
Subject: Re: Ethernet Bridge Recommendations?
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY
In article <2952@sharkey.cc.umich.edu> you write:
>
>I have about $6000 (at most $8000) to bridge 3 standard ethernet subnets,
>so far the best deal I can find is on 2 of Retix' low-end bridges that
>are rated for 6000 'frames/second'... is that fast enough for joining segments
>that have about 10 hosts each?? Security is something of an issue since
>there is clinical data on some hosts and research data on others, so I would
>like some control over access.
>
>So far I've looked at bridges from Micom, Raycom, Retix and DEC, are there
>any other vendors that I should try?
>
>Are there any bridges that I should avoid like the plague?
>
>I would appreciate any recommendations you may have and I will gladly
>post a summary to the net!
>
>Thanks,
>
>Brian.
>
>
>--
>Brian Wolfe Internet: baw@terminator.cc.umich.edu
>Systems Analyst UUCP: {rutgers,uunet}!sharkey!brian
>Henry Ford Hospital Voice: (313)-876-7461
>Detroit, MI 48202 FAX: (313)-875-0315
Cabletron makes (2) spanning tree algorithm type bridges. Their
forwarding and filtering rates are superb. I think one is 24000/12000
and the other is 12000/?????.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Friday
Computer Resources brf@philabs.philips.com
Philips Laboratories Voice (914) 945-6087
Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510
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From: Mike Rackley <RACKLEY%MSSTATE.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ethernet Bridge Recommendations?
We have been using the Retix 2244M bridges for about a year, and have
no complaints. We use them to isolate building ethernets from our
campus fiber optic backbone. It is hard to say if they are fast
enough for joining ethernet segments. That would depend upon how
much traffic is on your ethernets. Although our ethernets are not
heavily congested, the bridges have not been a problem so far.
By the way, I was told a couple of months ago that Retix has a newer,
faster, more expensive bridge. It is called something like 2265. As
I recall, it was rated at 8000 packets/second, and was about 15% more
expensive than the 2244M.
Mike Rackley | Rackley@MsState.BITNET
Mgr. Systems & Networks Programming | Rackley@CC.MsState.EDU
P.O. Drawer CC | Phone: (601)325-2942
Mississippi State, MS 39762 | FAX: (601)325-3299
From: jam%LONEX.RADC.AF.MIL%mailrus.uucp@mailgw.cc.umich.edu (Joel A. Mussman)
Subject: Re: Ethernet Bridge Recommendations?
>I have about $6000 (at most $8000) to bridge 3 standard ethernet subnets,
>so far the best deal I can find is on 2 of Retix' low-end bridges that
>are rated for 6000 'frames/second'... is that fast enough for joining segments
>that have about 10 hosts each?? Security is something of an issue since
>there is clinical data on some hosts and research data on others, so I would
>like some control over access.
>
>So far I've looked at bridges from Micom, Raycom, Retix and DEC, are there
>any other vendors that I should try?
>
>Are there any bridges that I should avoid like the plague?
Brian,
I have three buildings with local basebands linked by fibers.
Before the days of bridges we had unix-based gateways at
each end of the fiber, but a while back we poped in the Retix
bridges in place of them.
We haven't had any problems with the Retix bridges. They seem
more than adequate to handle a significant amount of traffic
(I have from two to 10 hosts on each net, and while my machines
all are tcp/ip, one end of one of the basebands is plugged into
a DECNET, which is a whopping big load). I couldn't give you
an exact figure because it depends on the average packet length
on your network, but if you have a decent size packet (not everything
sent is one byte long) then the bridges will probably outstrip
the effective bandwidth of the ethernet (10mb ether tops out
at about 7mb in reality).
You might look at 3-Comm which makes a bridge, and possible
talk to Chipcom (they are in the Boston area somewhere).
I don't think you even want to approach the security issue
at the bridge level. It would take a really smart bridge
to limit traffic to and from certain hosts and that really
isn't feasible. Note that when you use bridges you are creating
one big logical network. Routers would create multiple logical
networks, and then you probably could limit traffic based on
network address. But if you had that scenerio, why would you
want to plug in the "at risk" network in the first place?
I think you have two things to consider:
a) security is best handled by the host protecting itself
b) the only totally secure system is in a tempest vault
by itself with no terminal and the door welded
shut. Being at a military base, I realize you
can't even trust the Marines guards anymore...
Good luck with your endeavor!
Joel Mussman
jam@lonex.radc.af.mil
From: Paul C. Nunnally <pnunnal@cabell.vcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ethernet Bridge Recommendations
Brian,
We use 3Com Bridge products which seem to work very well. Bridge was a seperate
company just recently bought by 3Com. The Bridge products seem to be fairly
maintainance free.
You did not give enought information in you mail message. I would need to
know what are the distances between the Segments.
If you don't want to spend very much money you could also use PCROUTE. It is a
public domain software which run on an XT with 2 Western Digital cards in it.
I have tested it out and it seem to work fine as an ip router. You can get the
software by anonymous ftp from off the network. I am not sure of the location
but if you an interested send me a message back and I will send you the address.
Good luck and if you get the chance let me know what you decide on.
Paul C. Nunnally
Virginia Commonwealth University
internet -- pnunnal@cabell.vcu.edu
From: Mike Morris <morris@jade.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
In article <2926@sharkey.cc.umich.edu> you write:
>
>So far I've looked at bridges from Micom, Raycom, Retix and DEC, are there
>any other vendors that I should try?
Sytek, for one. Was recently bought by Hughes, now knows as Hughes LAN systems
or something like that.
>Are there any bridges that I should avoid like the plague?
DEC LANbridge! Ask for a copy of the archive of the hatemail to be mailed
to you. There was quite a message thread going here for a while.
From: haas@wasatch.utah.edu (Walt Haas)
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
Organization: University of Utah, College of Engineering
I would advise you to check out the BICC Isolan bridge.
From: goodloe%b11%ingr.uucp@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
Try BICC. We really like their products.
tony goodloe
To: baw%sharkey%mailrus.uucp@mailgw.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Ethernet bridge recommendations?
I'm not a big Ethernet jock, but I have had to spec some
Ethernet equipment for a project I'm responsible for here.
One vendor I didn't see in your list was 3Com--they have
some bridging and routing products. Their IB/3 product is
fairly intelligent, and they also have an IB/2000 which is
somewhat cheaper. Our sales rep in Greensboro is pretty
helpful, and was also flexible on price because he wants
to break into our (fairly large) company. I hope
this helps --
Tom Groot
(919) 992-2610
From: Tom Cervenka <CTCT100%UICVMC.BITNET@UICVM.uic.edu>
Subject: Ethernet Bridges
> So far I've looked at bridges from Micom, Raycom, Retix and DEC, are there
> any other vendors that I should try?
You might want to look at 3Com (formerly Bridge Communications). They make a
couple of Ethernet bridges as well as gateways. I used their SNA product
in my previous job, but I don't have any real experience with the bridges
except to say that I've heard they're well designed and reliable.
3Com: 408-562-6400 , Santa Clara, CA I think.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Cervenka - University of Illinois at Chicago
Internet: ctct100@uicvmc.aiss.uiuc.edu Bitnet: ctct100@uicvmc
--
Brian Wolfe Internet: baw@terminator.cc.umich.edu
Systems Analyst UUCP: {rutgers,uunet}!sharkey!brian
Henry Ford Hospital Voice: (313)-876-7461
Detroit, MI 48202 FAX: (313)-875-0315