karl@naitc.uucp (Karl Denninger) (08/21/90)
Well, I've looked around for the packet drivers which will coexist with PC/NFS on a 3c503, and come up empty. Does anyone have a place they can point me at for these things? Preferrably Ftpable, although someone sending me a uuencoded file would work as well. Again, we're looking to use NCSA Telnet with PC/NFS coresident; this requires that you be able to use a packet driver, as PC/NFS gets rather upset if you just barge in and use the hardware interface :-) Detailed setup information and general help is appreciated! -- Karl Denninger AC Nielsen kdenning@ksun.naitc.com (708) 317-3285 Disclaimer: Contents represent opinions of the author; I do not speak for AC Nielsen on Usenet.
ssw@cica.cica.indiana.edu (Steve Wallace) (08/22/90)
The packet driver will NOT allow you to run PC-NFS and NCSA telnet at the same time. The packet driver doesn't support more that one application using the same ethernet type. There is a special version of Clarkson's tn3270 that uses the PC-NFS kernel. I thinks it's somewhere on sun.soe.clarkson.edu. Steven Wallace wallaces@ucs.indiana.edu
paik@lance.tis.llnl.gov (Yunki Paik) (08/23/90)
In article <ssw.651292828@cica> ssw@cica.cica.indiana.edu (Steve Wallace) writes: >The packet driver will NOT allow you to run PC-NFS and NCSA >telnet at the same time. The packet driver doesn't support more >that one application using the same ethernet type. There is a Ironical. The very reason for the packet driver is for sharing the device through the common interface. I have not used packet driver much, but I once used it with NCSA telnet alright. Again, I don't know if PC-NFS is aware of the packet driver. If it is, then they should coexist find. Will somebody shed more light on this? -- Yunki Paik paik@lance.tis.llnl.gov
ssw@cica.cica.indiana.edu (Steve Wallace) (08/23/90)
There is a driver for PC-NFS that allows it to use the packet driver, but the packet driver only supports one application per protocol type. You could run Novell NetWare and PC-NFS (NetWare uses IPX and PC-NFS uses ARP, and IP) or NetWare and NCSA telnet. You can NOT use two programs (i.e. NCSA telnet and PC-NFS) which use the same protocol. Steven Wallace
nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) (08/23/90)
In article <999@ncis.tis.llnl.gov> paik@lance.tis.llnl.gov (Yunki Paik) writes: In article <ssw.651292828@cica> ssw@cica.cica.indiana.edu (Steve Wallace) writes: >The packet driver will NOT allow you to run PC-NFS and NCSA >telnet at the same time. The packet driver doesn't support more >that one application using the same ethernet type. There is a Ironical. The very reason for the packet driver is for sharing the device through the common interface. I have not used packet driver much, but I once used it with NCSA telnet all right. Again, I don't know if PC-NFS is aware of the packet driver. If it is, then they should coexist fine. Yes, your self-admitted ignorance shows. The packet driver is for sharing the device with *different* protocols, not the *same* protocols. The only way to run NCSA Telnet over PC-NFS is for NCSA Telnet to *use* PC-NFS. That is, if you want to avoid booting. -- --russ (nelson@clutx [.bitnet | .clarkson.edu]) Russ.Nelson@$315.268.6667 We won the cold war. The Russians spent trillions defending their stuff, then they found that they didn't have any stuff. Will we avoid the same trap?
karl@naitc.uucp (Karl Denninger) (08/23/90)
In article <ssw.651370163@cica> ssw@cica.cica.indiana.edu (Steve Wallace) writes: >There is a driver for PC-NFS that allows it to use the packet >driver, but the packet driver only supports one application per >protocol type. You could run Novell NetWare and PC-NFS (NetWare >uses IPX and PC-NFS uses ARP, and IP) or NetWare and NCSA telnet. >You can NOT use two programs (i.e. NCSA telnet and PC-NFS) which >use the same protocol. Should someone (perhaps myself) endeavor to fix this? Or is it inherent in the protocol and technology being used? I can't think of a technical limitation on this, but I could be wrong. I guess arp's could get a little hairy (who handles them?!) but socket connections ought to be ok as long as the protocols in use don't use the same sockets. In the case of Telnet and NFS, they don't do this, so it >should< work, at least in my mind. Of course it doesn't; I've tried it. If NCSA is loaded first you can use it -- and then start NFS. As soon as PC/NFS is started (net start rdr) then NCSA can't find a driver to attach to anymore, and it says "sorry!". One possible solution is to use two ethernet cards, but that's kludgy and not what I'd like to do if possible. An annoying thing with the CUTE version for NFS is that it doesn't pay any attention to your definition of the gateways in config.tel. That is, you have to point PC/NFS at the right gateway location, or it won't work off your subnet. Since PC/NFS doesn't listen to RIP broadcasts, this is a real drag; you can't move a gateway without going to all kinds of trouble! At least the nameserver and RARP stuff does work; I knew there was a God. :-) There's another issue -- we have a package which does an "X" server on a PC. Now it would be real nice if it could coexist with PC/NFS and the packet drivers as well. Note that Macs CAN do this, they have a common driver which supports all kinds of things at once, and they even manage to run NCSA Telnet and the other stuff concurrently without hassles! I would think that the PC could do this too... but so far I've been disappointed. Anyone want to take a stab at why I'm all wet on trying to accomplish this? -- Karl Denninger AC Nielsen kdenning@ksun.naitc.com (708) 317-3285 Disclaimer: Contents represent opinions of the author; I do not speak for AC Nielsen on Usenet.
hamish@waikato.ac.nz (08/24/90)
In article <NELSON.90Aug22211453@image.clarkson.edu>, nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) writes: > In article <999@ncis.tis.llnl.gov> paik@lance.tis.llnl.gov (Yunki Paik) writes: > > In article <ssw.651292828@cica> ssw@cica.cica.indiana.edu (Steve Wallace) writes: > >The packet driver will NOT allow you to run PC-NFS and NCSA > >telnet at the same time. The packet driver doesn't support more > >that one application using the same ethernet type. There is a > > Ironical. The very reason for the packet driver is for sharing the > device through the common interface. I have not used packet driver > much, but I once used it with NCSA telnet all right. Again, I > don't know if PC-NFS is aware of the packet driver. If it is, then > they should coexist fine. > > Yes, your self-admitted ignorance shows. The packet driver is for sharing > the device with *different* protocols, not the *same* protocols. The only > way to run NCSA Telnet over PC-NFS is for NCSA Telnet to *use* PC-NFS. > That is, if you want to avoid booting. > > -- > --russ (nelson@clutx [.bitnet | .clarkson.edu]) Russ.Nelson@$315.268.6667 > We won the cold war. The Russians spent trillions defending their stuff, > then they found that they didn't have any stuff. Will we avoid the same trap? Hmmmm.... I'd better go back and try again. I could have sworn that I was running them both together just a couple of weeks ago, with no problems whatsoever. The reason was because poeple didn't like the NFS telnet so I told them to just use the NCSA one. It seemed to work Maybe mine is broken? :) -- ============================================================================== | Hamish Marson | Internet hamish@waikato.ac.nz | | Computer Support Person | Phone (071)562889 xt 8181 | | Computer Science Department | Amiga 3000 for ME! | | University of Waikato | | ============================================================================== |Disclaimer: Anything said in this message is the personal opinion of the | | finger hitting the keyboard & doesn't represent my employers | | opinion in any way. (ie we probably don't agree) | ==============================================================================
geoff@hinode.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top) (08/24/90)
Quoth hamish@waikato.ac.nz (in <1324.26d51b97@waikato.ac.nz>):
#In article <NELSON.90Aug22211453@image.clarkson.edu>, nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) writes:
#> Yes, your self-admitted ignorance shows. The packet driver is for sharing
#> the device with *different* protocols, not the *same* protocols. The only
#> way to run NCSA Telnet over PC-NFS is for NCSA Telnet to *use* PC-NFS.
#> That is, if you want to avoid booting.
#Hmmmm....
# I'd better go back and try again. I could have sworn that I was running them
#both together just a couple of weeks ago, with no problems whatsoever. The
#reason was because poeple didn't like the NFS telnet so I told them to just use
#the NCSA one. It seemed to work
There are certain PC networking applications whose drivers "nest" well
with other packages: they take over the interface to the network
adapter (vectors, registers, shared memory config, etc.) cleanly and
restore it on exit. There are obvious hardware dependencies here: if
the device includes "write-only" state, it's tough to recover. (There
are also some dependencies on the way the PC-NFS driver was written: if
the "interruption" of the network app. appears to the PC-NFS driver to
be a hardware glitch of some kind, some PC-NFS drivers will reset and
recover.) Some of the builtin NCSA drivers (not packet drivers) are
well-behaved in this way. (I believe the 3C501 driver is one example,
but I haven't checked in ages.)
In these cases, you can boot with PC-NFS and then successfully run the
network app; while the latter is running, PC-NFS is effectively
suspended. You must obviously make sure that you don't stir PC-NFS into
life by (e.g.) referencing an NFS-mounted drive from within the
application, but apart from that limitation everything may just work
for you.
Geoff
-- Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Microsystems. (geoff@East.Sun.COM) --
To receive a full copy of my .signature, please dial 1-900-GUE-ZORK.
Each call will cost you one zorkmid.JRD@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) (08/25/90)
Karl, Despite lots of good sense, Packet Drivers do not work within a protocol stack and thus are unable to appreciate the nuances of "sockets". Joe D.
lodin@plains.NoDak.edu (Joe Schmo) (08/25/90)
>In these cases, you can boot with PC-NFS and then successfully run the >network app; while the latter is running, PC-NFS is effectively >suspended. You must obviously make sure that you don't stir PC-NFS into >life by (e.g.) referencing an NFS-mounted drive from within the >application, but apart from that limitation everything may just work >for you. > >Geoff > >-- Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Microsystems. (geoff@East.Sun.COM) -- > That is exactly what I have been doing. I will not touch network drives while I am shelled out of NCSA telnet. So far this arrangement, although cumbersome, works. Steven W. Lodin Advanced Instrumentation Engineering Delco Electronics Corp AT&T: (317) 451-8722 GM: 8-322-8722 Domain: lodin%koiasvr01.uucp@ee.ecn.purdue.edu or lodin@plains.nodak.edu or swlodin@koess.gm.hac.com UUCP: <backbone>!pur-ee!koiasvr01!lodin GM: LODIN, SW <KOESS::SWLODIN>