[comp.dcom.lans] Thick or Thin Ethernet?

lairdkb@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) (01/16/91)

I'm installing a LAN (OS/2) with a maximum spread of well under the 606' max.
for thin-net.  The max. number of users is <20.

The network specialist here advised thick-net.  As I understood, his main
concern was that the BNC connections occassionally go bad or get knocked out. 

Is this really enough to merit the extra expense and hassle of thick-net?

thanks!

--kyler

davecb@yunexus.YorkU.CA (David Collier-Brown) (01/16/91)

lairdkb@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) writes:
| The network specialist here advised thick-net.  As I understood, his main
| concern was that the BNC connections occassionally go bad or get knocked out. 
| Is this really enough to merit the extra expense and hassle of thick-net?

  For permanent, in-ceiling, long cables with machines that have thick-ethernet
drop cable connectors, thicknet is ok, sort of.  Individual machines may fall
off the net if the drop cable connectors fail (as they do!), but the net stays
up until someone whacks a tranceiver.
  For non-permanent, short cables, thin is ok, sort of.  Machines rarely fall
off the net for mechnical reasons, but people can accidentally break the whole
net by disconnecting cables.

  We're stopped using thicknet years ago...

--dave
-- 
David Collier-Brown,  | davecb@Nexus.YorkU.CA | lethe!dave
72 Abitibi Ave.,      | 
Willowdale, Ontario,  | Even cannibals don't usually eat their
CANADA. 416-223-8968  | friends. 

henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (01/17/91)

In article <3832@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> lairdkb@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) writes:
>The network specialist here advised thick-net.  As I understood, his main
>concern was that the BNC connections occassionally go bad or get knocked out. 
>
>Is this really enough to merit the extra expense and hassle of thick-net?

Depends very much on the environment.  Thick Ethernet is, indeed, much
more robust, partly because your network does not run right to the back
of each user's machine where it can be jerked around or disconnected
at his whim.  The price you pay for thin Ethernet's convenience and low
cost is much greater vulnerability to network disruption if your environment
is not well controlled.

If your users know what they're doing and can be trusted to treat your
cable with respect, or are unsophisticated enough that they treat all
hardware with respect, thin should be fine.  Otherwise, consider thick
or twisted-pair (which runs separate cable from each user's box to a
central hub where faults can be isolated).  We use thin within our machine
room, but plan to go with twisted pair if/when we start doing Ethernet to
users' offices.
-- 
If the Space Shuttle was the answer,   | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
what was the question?                 |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu   utzoo!henry

cornutt@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) (01/17/91)

It's no accident that most professional video gear is wired with BNC
connectors.  They're quite robust.

-- 
David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-6457
(cornutt@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."

stacy@sobeco.com (s.millions) (01/19/91)

lairdkb@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) writes:

>The network specialist here advised thick-net.  As I understood, his main
>concern was that the BNC connections occassionally go bad or get knocked out. 

>Is this really enough to merit the extra expense and hassle of thick-net?

I have seen more problems with transceiver cables than with bnc plugs.
Note that unless the device you are plugging into the net is equipped
for thin, you are still going to have the transceiver cable problems.

Most of the problems I have seen with BNC connectors have been people
not knowing how to disconnect something from the net without taking
disturbing the net. I like the "AMP Fast Tap" (I'm sure something in
there is a trade mark of someone) connectors for that. Short of
ripping the entire connector out of the wall, it is fairly safe
from naive users.

-stacy

-- 
"Sorry I had to plug you mister duck, but I'm a sportsman."    stacy@sobeco.com
    - Almyer Fudd                                            uunet!sobeco!stacy

spurgeon@.uucp (Charles E. Spurgeon) (01/19/91)

In article <BOB.91Jan16225107@volitans.MorningStar.Com> bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) writes:
>In article <3832@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> lairdkb@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) writes:
>   ...BNC connections occassionally go bad or get knocked out.
>
>I have *far* fewer problems with well-made BNC cable ends than with
>those infernal slidey-clippy bent sheet metal things that thick
>Ethernet transceiver cables use to try to hold themselves to their
>terminals.  Thin, flexible cables with BNC connectors are much more
>forgiving of equipment movement and cable abuse in users' offices.  If
>you decide you must go with thick transceiver cables, at least get
>some of the modification kits to retrofit them with positive
>screwdowns.

We recently purchased some office transceiver cables from Cabletron,
and I noticed that the sliding latch on these cables had been
redesigned to the point where they work much better. (An office
transceiver cable is a lighter weight, shorter distance version of the
standard Ethernet transceiver cable.)

It's too hard to show in ASCII graphics, but basically the ends of
this new sliding latch assembly are physically attached to a raised
edge of metal along both long sides of the latch.  This means that the
weakest portion of this assembly, and the one that used to bend easily,
is now fixed in place.

The result is that when this sliding latch is attached to a correctly
assembled set of mating posts (located on the male end of the 15 pin
connector) the connection is much more solid.  I hasten to note that a
"correctly assembled set of mating posts" can be hard to find on some
equipment, notably Sun 3s.

I was pleased to see this bit of engineering.  The latch has a solid
detent feel to the side-to-side motion now, and connections between
these cables and transceivers are solid and don't give us any
problems.




Charles E. Spurgeon                  | spurgeon@emx.utexas.edu          |
University of Texas at Austin        | ...!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!spurgeon|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

bruce@camb.com (Barton F. Bruce) (01/29/91)

In article <BOB.91Jan16225107@volitans.MorningStar.Com>, bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) writes:
> 
> I have *far* fewer problems with well-made BNC cable ends than with
> those infernal slidey-clippy bent sheet metal things that thick

very true

> If you decide you must go with thick transceiver cables, at least get
> some of the modification kits to retrofit them with positive
> screwdowns.

If you must use tranceiver cable at all, use the 'office' grade that is
almost as thin as thin-net coax, and that 1) has higher loss so it can't 
be terribly long, but most important: 2) is so limp that the flimsy slide
latches are adequate to hold it in place!

If you 'own' lots of tranceivers using the fairly standard AMP vampire
tap head, buy new heads to convert to BNC. I prefer the ones with a single
BNC rather than the ones with the integral T and 2 BNCs, so an external T
is necessary. Then removal from the line is easy without trashing others
on that segment.

AMP tranceiver heads: (I think the BNC ones are about $17 - bought 'right')

vampire		228752-1
BNC - T 	221918-1
BNC single	222455-1  ( best choice for thin-net use)
N - T		221914-1  (N is the connector at the end of Ether-HOSE)