[comp.dcom.lans] 802.3 for NetWare for VMS

rainer@hwsw.gedas.de (Rainer Raupach) (02/22/91)

Hi Netlanders,

I'm looking for a NW-VMS guru, who can tell me if it is possible 
to change NW-VMS from Ethernet II to 802.3, so that all 'normal'
NW-servers and workstations can see the VAX.
In the file 'NW_LOAD_DRV.COM' is a parameter for one driver which
says something like '/e_type=3781', which stands for the Novell
assigned type field value of 8137.
Is there a chance to change this value, so that 802.3 packets are
sent?

Thanks, Rainer
-- 
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Rainer Raupach		Internet: rainer@hwsw.gedas.de
Network Coordinator	X.400:	S=RAUPACH C=DE A=DBP P=VW-GEDAS
VW-GEDAS Berlin, GER 	Phone:	+49 30 39007-629  / FAX : ext -999

jrd@cc.usu.edu (02/26/91)

In article <755@hwsw.gedas.de>, rainer@hwsw.gedas.de (Rainer Raupach) writes:
> Hi Netlanders,
> 
> I'm looking for a NW-VMS guru, who can tell me if it is possible 
> to change NW-VMS from Ethernet II to 802.3, so that all 'normal'
> NW-servers and workstations can see the VAX.
> In the file 'NW_LOAD_DRV.COM' is a parameter for one driver which
> says something like '/e_type=3781', which stands for the Novell
> assigned type field value of 8137.
> Is there a chance to change this value, so that 802.3 packets are
> sent?
> 
> Thanks, Rainer
> -- 
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> Rainer Raupach		Internet: rainer@hwsw.gedas.de
> Network Coordinator	X.400:	S=RAUPACH C=DE A=DBP P=VW-GEDAS
> VW-GEDAS Berlin, GER 	Phone:	+49 30 39007-629  / FAX : ext -999

Rainer,
	I don't think it can be done. The TYPE field in Ethernet II packets
is used for LENGTH in IEEE 802.3 packets. What's more, Novell style 802.3
packets are not even properly formed 802.3 packets. Decoding 802.3 requires
extra software to recover the source and destination access points etc and
that is likely not present in the VMS Ethernet drivers.
	The approach taken by many sites is to abandon Novell style 802.3
as rapidly as possible, as even Novell is doing. Converting NW servers to
Ethernet II TYPE 8137 is very easy (ECONFIG) and has other benefits to all
network users.
	Joe D.

koning@koning.enet.dec.com (Paul Koning) (02/28/91)

|>In article <755@hwsw.gedas.de>, rainer@hwsw.gedas.de (Rainer Raupach) writes:

|>> Hi Netlanders,
|>> 
|>> I'm looking for a NW-VMS guru, who can tell me if it is possible 
|>> to change NW-VMS from Ethernet II to 802.3, so that all 'normal'
|>> NW-servers and workstations can see the VAX.
|>> In the file 'NW_LOAD_DRV.COM' is a parameter for one driver which
|>> says something like '/e_type=3781', which stands for the Novell
|>> assigned type field value of 8137.
|>> Is there a chance to change this value, so that 802.3 packets are
|>> sent?
|>> 
|>> Thanks, Rainer
|>> -- 
|>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
|>> Rainer Raupach		Internet: rainer@hwsw.gedas.de
|>> Network Coordinator	X.400:	S=RAUPACH C=DE A=DBP P=VW-GEDAS
|>> VW-GEDAS Berlin, GER 	Phone:	+49 30 39007-629  / FAX : ext -999
|>
|>Rainer,
|>	I don't think it can be done. The TYPE field in Ethernet II packets
|>is used for LENGTH in IEEE 802.3 packets. What's more, Novell style 802.3
|>packets are not even properly formed 802.3 packets. Decoding 802.3 requires
|>extra software to recover the source and destination access points etc and
|>that is likely not present in the VMS Ethernet drivers.
|>	The approach taken by many sites is to abandon Novell style 802.3
|>as rapidly as possible, as even Novell is doing. Converting NW servers to
|>Ethernet II TYPE 8137 is very easy (ECONFIG) and has other benefits to all
|>network users.
|>	Joe D.
|>

I'd like to correct part of what you said...  802.3 support also requires
802.2 (LLC) support, i.e., you have to know about DSAP and SSAP and all that.
This support IS present in the VMS Ethernet drivers and has been for
some time.  Therefore, any protocol that correctly implements 802.3
(i.e., along with 802.2) can be handled.

	paul

rainer@hwsw.gedas.de (Rainer Raupach) (02/28/91)

>There is a utility - ECONFIG - that will modify Netware Shells and Servers
>to talk Ethernet-II. If you need your workstations and servers to communicate
>with NW-VMS, you will want to change them.

Ok, I know this utility and already used it to configure our Novell-gateway
to have access to both groups. But I thought it might be easier to change
4 VAXen rather than econfig 250 PCs.

Ok, let`s assume, I econfig all the workstations and servers. Will the
change do anything to the EtherTalk / IPX - gateway?
What kind of packets are EtherTalk packets?

Rgds Rainer

-- 
---
Rainer Raupach		Internet: rainer@hwsw.gedas.de
Network Coordinator	X.400:	too long to display here
VW-GEDAS Berlin, GER 	Phone:	+49 30 39007-629  / FAX : ext -999

oberman@rogue.llnl.gov (02/28/91)

In article <771@hwsw.gedas.de>, rainer@hwsw.gedas.de (Rainer Raupach) writes:
> Ok, I know this utility and already used it to configure our Novell-gateway
> to have access to both groups. But I thought it might be easier to change
> 4 VAXen rather than econfig 250 PCs.
> 
> Ok, let`s assume, I econfig all the workstations and servers. Will the
> change do anything to the EtherTalk / IPX - gateway?
> What kind of packets are EtherTalk packets?

EtherTalk packets are Ethernet if Phase 1 is used. EtherTalk under Phase 2 uses
802.3.

There has been a great deal of nonsense posted on this topic, but the bottom
line is correct. Novell does not transmit valid 802.3 packets because the 802.2
LLC information is not there. It does do correct Ethernet V2, so it is best to
use this format. Impact on the EtherTalk/IPX gateway is not related to this
issue as EtherTalk packets will continue in whatever format they are now
running, 802.3 for Phase 2 or Ethernet for Phase 1.

					R. Kevin Oberman
					Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
					Internet: oberman@icdc.llnl.gov
   					(415) 422-6955

Disclaimer: Don't take this too seriously. I just like to improve my typing
and probably don't really know anything useful about anything.