anc@camcon.uucp (Adrian Cockcroft) (03/08/88)
We currently have a SUN laserwriter which is an Apple laserwriter
with a different badge on the front. This is rated at 300 dots/inch,
8 pages/minute, 3000-5000 pages per month with a life of 300000
pages. It requires a new toner cartridge about every 4000 pages, has
a 100 sheet input paper tray and a 20 sheet output paper tray. Cost
is about 4500 pounds, about 2p/page.
Since we are running at about 9000 pages/month (and increasing) I
started to look for alternatives. After enquiring over the news
network about more heavy duty printers that use the Postscript page
description language I received several email messages. Three
recommended the Agfa P400PS, two recommended the Dataproducts 2665.
The three printers I thought worth considering are detailed below.
The Agfa P400PS is actually an LED array printer with the following specs:
408 dpi A4 pages
Adobe Atlas Postscript board
20 MB Hard disk, 6 MB RAM
18 changing pages a minute
2000 sheet input bin
200 sheet input tray.
500 sheet output bin.
Optional 20 bin output collator.
5000000 page drum life
Rated up to 100000 pages/month
One toner bottle lasts about 5000 pages
Serviced every 50000 pages
RS232, AppleTalk & Centronics interfaces.
Standard four fonts built into the ROMS, 35 other fonts on the hard
disk. Others can be added whenever you want.
The Atlas board spools incoming jobs onto the hard disk. So if a page
jams then you don't have to print it again as it just reads the
damaged page back off the disk and prints it again.
Can take, paper, OHP slides, thin card and paper offset sheets in the
200 sheet input tray.
19,500 pounds including installation.
Maintenance cost 1194/year + 1p/page includes supplies of toner
and all parts and labour.
Separate Toner supplies are 22.50/bottle.
Cost per page at 15000 pages/month inc maintenance 1.66p
Contact Leigh Davis, Office Systems, Agfa-Gaevert Ltd 01-560-2131
The Dataproducts LZR-2665 specs are:
300 dpi A4 or A3 pages
Postscript Interface
Up to 26 pages a minute
Optional 1500 sheet input bin
500 A4 and 250 (A4/A3) sheet input trays
250 sheet output tray
Optional 10 bin output collator
3000000 drum life
Rated up to 60000 pages/month
Serviced every 40000 pages
One toner bottle lasts about 6000 pages
RS232, AppleTalk & Centronics interfaces
Standard fonts
Can take OHP slides, cassettes 60-80gsm, manual 60-130gsm
14,950 pounds
8 Hour Maintenance cost 880 pounds/year 1.1 p/page
includes parts and labour. Other options available.
Toner needed at about 15.60 pounds/bottle
Cost per page at 15000/month inc maintenance 1.84p
Contact Glen Griffiths, Sintrom Ltd (0734) 311088
At a lower level of performance there is the Texas Instruments 2115
300 dpi A4
Postscript Interface
15 ppm
Twin 250 sheet input trays
One 500 sheet output bin
1500000 drum life
Rated up to 25000 pages/month
Toner bottle lasts 6000 pages
RS232, RS422, Centronics, Appletalk interfaces
Standard fonts + plug in cartridges
Can take OHP slides
5945 pounds
Toner about 40 pounds/bottle
Contact Rob Maragh, RTS Ltd, 01 267 7541
Also see Computer News 14 Jan 88, Grand Prix for Postscript Printers.
They rate the Agfa as about twice as fast as the 2665 with the TI
2115 a bit slower than the 2665. The Agfa produces shiny embossed
looking output which isn't as nice as the normal photocopier style
output of the others, even though it has more dots per inch. The new
range of Apple laserwriters is based on an updated Canon engine which
is still slow and has the same life and load characteristics as the
old one.
We will probably be getting the TI 2115 since it is good enough for
us. Warwick University in the UK have an Agfa (try
cudcv%daisy@warwick.uucp for more details). Ohio State University in
the USA have Dataproducts 2665's (try bob@cis.ohio-state.edu). Does
anybody out there already have a TI 2115? I'd like to know SOON if
there are any problems with it!
--
| Adrian Cockcroft anc@camcon.uucp ..!seismo!mcvax!ukc!camcon!anc
-[T]- Cambridge Consultants Ltd, Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4DW,
| England, UK (0223) 358855
(You are in a maze of twisty little C004's, all alike...)eap@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Eric Pearce) (03/13/88)
>At a lower level of performance there is the Texas Instruments 2115 > 300 dpi A4 > Postscript Interface > 15 ppm > Twin 250 sheet input trays > One 500 sheet output bin > 1500000 drum life > Rated up to 25000 pages/month > Toner bottle lasts 6000 pages > RS232, RS422, Centronics, Appletalk interfaces > Standard fonts + plug in cartridges > Can take OHP slides > 5945 pounds > Toner about 40 pounds/bottle >We will probably be getting the TI 2115 since it is good enough for >us. > Does >anybody out there already have a TI 2115? I'd like to know SOON if >there are any problems with it! > | Adrian Cockcroft anc@camcon.uucp ..!seismo!mcvax!ukc!camcon!anc >-[T]- Cambridge Consultants Ltd, Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4DW, > | England, UK (0223) 358855 We (Boston University) have 4 TI 2115's and at least 10 Talaris T1500's (same Ricoh print engine). The most used one has about 85,000 pages printed. These were great when they were new. They are pretty reliable as far as being able to print without jamming or failing in some other manner, but the print quality goes down hill from the day you plug it in. Replacing toner will restore darkness of the print, but it is smeared noticeably. This will not affect thin lines such as normal print, but when you need to fill large areas, it looks pretty bad. Replacing the OPC belt will clean it up a bit, but a large light spot will appear on the lower right hand part of the page as the OPC belt goes past a couple thousand pages printed. I get the impression that these printers were never designed for the kind of throughput we have here. They would probably would be fine for a small office's needs, but I would reccomend a printer with a Canon print engine if this is what you are wanting to buy. I think the QUME QMS-800, Talaris T800 and the Apple LaserWriter all have the Canon engine. They tend to a lot slower, but their print quality lasts throughout the printer's life. -E (anybody else have same experience ?) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP !harvard!bu-cs!bu-it!eap ARPANET eap@bu-it.bu.edu CSNET eap%bu-it@bu-cs DECNET ep@buenga * Hanging out in the Q Continuum * BITNET iteap@bostonu
fmr@cwi.nl (Frank Rahmani) (03/20/88)
> > Since we are running at about 9000 pages/month (and increasing) I > started to look for alternatives. > So did we (at about the same amount to print) and as you are discussing three PostScript printers we've (had) in very heavy use I can't restrain from some comments. First: > We currently have a SUN laserwriter which is an Apple laserwriter > with a different badge on the front. This is rated at 300 dots/inch, > 8 pages/minute, 3000-5000 pages per month with a life of 300000 > pages. It requires a new toner cartridge about every 4000 pages, has > a 100 sheet input paper tray and a 20 sheet output paper tray. Cost > is about 4500 pounds, about 2p/page. Yes , and for that it's even cheaper than a copier, but you wan't want to wait for multiple copies as it is SLOW. Also we normally leave our printers on continuously (for people logging in from home), but the small paper- tray is a real handicap. Luckily our laserprinters are connected via a serial line to a multiplexor. So the jobs remain queued and after refilling the papertray at 6 in the morning it happily churned away till noon. NEVER, NEVER had any problems with these. Now that we have bigger printers they are reconnected to Mac's (where they belong) and still doing good work.With a little love and care they give us 7000 pages with one cartridge (5000 with refilled cartridges).If you want quality output in small amounts, this is the way to go. > > The Agfa P400PS is actually an LED array printer with the following specs: > 408 dpi A4 pages That's the highest resolution of the three, just a pity it DOESN'T show, as a matter of fact the quality of the output is MUCH worse than the other two. > Adobe Atlas Postscript board > 20 MB Hard disk, 6 MB RAM > 18 changing pages a minute True for plain text only > 2000 sheet input bin > 200 sheet input tray. > 500 sheet output bin. > Optional 20 bin output collator. > 5000000 page drum life With 140000 prints done (in about three months) we just got the third drum. > Rated up to 100000 pages/month > One toner bottle lasts about 5000 pages > Serviced every 50000 pages This is enforced by the machine itself. Can be overriden for another 1000 or so pages. > RS232, AppleTalk & Centronics interfaces. > Standard four fonts built into the ROMS, 35 other fonts on the hard > disk. Others can be added whenever you want. > The Atlas board spools incoming jobs onto the hard disk. So if a page > jams then you don't have to print it again as it just reads the > damaged page back off the disk and prints it again. And believe me, you NEED this feature. Our machine jams about thirty times a day, sometimes even after every second page.(No real jams, due to some bad timing in the transport the machine just stops. Re- moving a sheet which looks very burned(!) and pressing 'C' on the control panel gets things going again.If things get too wild we call the serviceman, which forgets our appointment and usually shows up one week later (we have 8 working hours followup on our contract!!) and after some angry phone calls from our part (Hi, Agfa Netherland, recognize your style?). If you want smooth operation in your print- shop stay away from this one (we just needed the font_downloading_ to_builtin_harddisk feature and look how we got burned). One other remark on this one: in contrary to the other two printers on this one the toner is not burned into the paper, it's just sitting on top of it (yes, you can actually FEEL the letters and lines). To the naked eye the print looks much blacker, but as the toner is also kind of fatty (very reflective) you never get nice photocopies from it. Compared to the next machine, the input and output bins of the Agfa are very unpractical and of very low quality. > Can take, paper, OHP slides, thin card and paper offset sheets in the > 200 sheet input tray. > 19,500 pounds including installation. > Maintenance cost 1194/year + 1p/page includes supplies of toner > and all parts and labour. > Separate Toner supplies are 22.50/bottle. > Cost per page at 15000 pages/month inc maintenance 1.66p > Contact Leigh Davis, Office Systems, Agfa-Gaevert Ltd 01-560-2131 > > The Dataproducts LZR-2665 specs are: Now you start talking sense! > 300 dpi A4 or A3 pages Even if you don't use A3 (as we don't), it means that in plain text two pages are printed AT ONCE which makes it VERY fast(enscript e.g.). > Postscript Interface > Up to 26 pages a minute > Optional 1500 sheet input bin Very practical and easy to fill (has an electric elevator like the big copiers). In contrary to the Agfa this one can be refilled anytime during printing as it is a separate machine. The Agfa jams if you try to refill it during printing (except when the tray is totally empty) > 500 A4 and 250 (A4/A3) sheet input trays > 250 sheet output tray > Optional 10 bin output collator > 3000000 drum life > Rated up to 60000 pages/month > Serviced every 40000 pages The service interval seems to be planned very good, as we got slight transportation trouble after every other 40000 mark (our mistake, we use normal 80grs copier paper which is VERY dusty). Besides that NEVER had any trouble. Serviceman always takes the whole machine apart to look after possible trouble_to_become. Thanks for the good service, Datamation Netherland! > One toner bottle lasts about 6000 pages > RS232, AppleTalk & Centronics interfaces > Standard fonts > Can take OHP slides, cassettes 60-80gsm, manual 60-130gsm > 14,950 pounds > 8 Hour Maintenance cost 880 pounds/year 1.1 p/page > includes parts and labour. Other options available. > Toner needed at about 15.60 pounds/bottle > Cost per page at 15000/month inc maintenance 1.84p > Contact Glen Griffiths, Sintrom Ltd (0734) 311088 > > At a lower level of performance there is the Texas Instruments 2115 Seems that TI doesn't do any business any more in Europe. The last time I saw them around was with those handhelds (TI 56). > | Adrian Cockcroft anc@camcon.uucp ..!seismo!mcvax!ukc!camcon!anc > -[T]- Cambridge Consultants Ltd, Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4DW, > | England, UK (0223) 358855 One last word about output quality. The Agfa (at least our Agfa) can't print fuul page bitmap pics, there are big white patches all over the page. Also it can't print a grayscale, there is NO distinction between the values of the scale. Both, the Apple LW+ and the Dataproducts produce this kind of output very nicely. All the above is my personal opinion from working as an operator 12 hours daily with this machines. fmr@cwi.nl -- It is better never to have been born. But who among us has such luck?
yorick@kbsc.UUCP (Yorick Phoenix) (04/13/88)
In article <449@sering.cwi.nl> fmr@cwi.nl (Frank Rahmani) writes: >> The Agfa P400PS is actually an LED array printer with the following specs: >> 408 dpi A4 pages >That's the highest resolution of the three, just a pity it DOESN'T >show, as a matter of fact the quality of the output is MUCH worse >than the other two. Not on mine it isn't. True the improvement in quality is not as good as you would expect if you look at the mathmatics involved. >> 5000000 page drum life >With 140000 prints done (in about three months) we >just got the third drum. Had no problems with my drum so far over the same kind of distance, but then the replacement drums shouldn't have cost you anything either. >> The Atlas board spools incoming jobs onto the hard disk. So if a page >> jams then you don't have to print it again as it just reads the >> damaged page back off the disk and prints it again. >And believe me, you NEED this feature. Our machine jams about thirty >times a day, sometimes even after every second page.(No real jams, >due to some bad timing in the transport the machine just stops. Re- >moving a sheet which looks very burned(!) and pressing 'C' on the >control panel gets things going again. I had this once upon a time and it's due to paper curling upwards. If the paper is put in the printer with the curling upwards then it is possible that on the output the paper might just fail to trigger the microswitch. This distance can be adjusted and once I had that done I was back to my normal 2-3 jams per month. >If things get too wild we call >the serviceman, which forgets our appointment and usually shows up >one week later (we have 8 working hours followup on our contract!!) >and after some angry phone calls from our part (Hi, Agfa Netherland, >recognize your style?). If you want smooth operation in your print- >shop stay away from this one (we just needed the font_downloading_ >to_builtin_harddisk feature and look how we got burned). I have had no problems from sevice calls, but then Agfa UK are only the other side of London from me which does help. At a guess you should do something about the level of service that your getting from Agfa Netherland, remember your paying for it and are therefore entitled to what you are paying for which includes getting your money back. >Compared to the next machine, the input and output bins of >the Agfa are very unpractical and of very low quality. But compared to a standard Cannon engine they are great. Also there is a 20 bin output sorter that I plan on having on evalation. >One last word about output quality. The Agfa (at least our Agfa) >can't print fuul page bitmap pics, there are big white patches >all over the page. Also it can't print a grayscale, there is NO >distinction between the values of the scale. Both, the Apple LW+ >and the Dataproducts produce this kind of output very nicely. I think you need your machine serviced and the print density changing, I get decent bitmaps and greyscales from mine without white patches (that's the sort of thing my LaserWriter does instead). >All the above is my personal opinion from working as an operator >12 hours daily with this machines. >fmr@cwi.nl Is there anything less than a 12 hour day for operators/technical support. Also Agfa were kind enough to let us have it on extended (read 5 months) trial before we deceided to buy it. Yorick -- +--------------------------+ The Knowledge-Based Systems Centre | yorick@kbsc.UUCP | 58 Northside, Clapham Common | ..mcvax!ukc!kbsc!yorick | LONDON SW4 9RZ England +--------------------------+ Voice: +44 1 350 1622
cudac@daisy.warwick.ac.uk (Tim Clark) (04/15/88)
In article <910@kbsc.UUCP> yorick@kbsc.UUCP (Yorick Phoenix) defends the Agfa
P400PS following the article <449@sering.cwi.nl> in which fmr@cwi.nl
(Frank Rahmani) raises some points against it.
We've run a P400PS for nearly a year now, and in summary I would say that
there ARE problems, but they can be sorted out if you keep on at Agfa for long
enough.
In this part of the UK (Midlands - near Birmingham), Agfa's service is not all
it could be. The main problem seems to be that Agfa haven't got many
service technicians trained up on the P400PS yet.
On quality and paper jams, we kept on at Agfa until it was sorted out. Now
we're quite happy. We used to run it with the standard univerity issue copying
paper (the cheapest the university can get hold of). Agfa said this was the
cause of many paper jams and poor quality output. They suggested we use
Agfa paper. We thought this sounded like a typical sales ploy. We did try the
Agfa paper, and (to our suprise) the results were far better. The Agfa P400PS
certainly seems to be far less tolerant of lower quality paper than other
engines. Low quality paper causes paper jams and blotchy output. If you are
prepared to pay the extra 0.2p (0.002 pounds sterling) a page extra the
Agfa paper (and I would guess other similar less absorbent paper) gives
good results.
T.Clark@cu.warwick.ac.uk | Post: Computing Services
JANET: T.Clark@uk.ac.warwick.cu | University of Warwick
DARPA: T.Clark%cu.warwick.ac.uk@nss.cs.ucl.ac.uk | Coventry, UK
UUCP: T.Clark%daisy@warwick.uucp | CV4 7AL
EARN/BITNET: T.Clark%uk.ac.warwick.cu@UKACRL | Phone: +44 203 523224