ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) (12/18/88)
Is anyone out there doing anything with SCSI 2? Anyone have any comments on the proposals from the San Diego CAM Committee meeting? Any comments on the latest rev. of the standard? Tim Smith
buck@siswat.UUCP (A. Lester Buck) (12/20/88)
In article <12736@cup.portal.com>, ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes: > Is anyone out there doing anything with SCSI 2? Anyone have any > comments on the proposals from the San Diego CAM Committee meeting? > Any comments on the latest rev. of the standard? Check out the SCSI BBS run by someone from NCR Witchita. It is the exchange for most people active on the SCSI standards committee. Last time I was on, they had the following documents available: 1) Copy of the SCSI 1 standard, one tiny revision back from the actual ANSI standard document. 2) Working copy of the SCSI 2 standard. 3) AutoCad files for all the figures (connectors, etc.) 4) Copy of the ESDI standard. 5) A bit on IPI. 6) Many other documents for various proposals and discussions. 7) A large message base discussing technical details of the SCSI standard. All of this is available for downloading. Registration is free and the approval delay is a few days. SCSI BBS phone (316) 636-8700 -- A. Lester Buck ...!uhnix1!moray!siswat!buck
kc@hprnd.HP.COM (Kurt Chan) (12/20/88)
> Is anyone out there doing anything with SCSI 2? Yes, but implementors do so at their own risk. The document is not final. The committee expects to forward in early '89. > Anyone have any comments on the proposals from the San Diego CAM Committee > meeting? I've posted the minutes here. This is an excellent effort by the industry to standardize the driver/hardware interface for PC host adapters. > Any comments on the latest rev. of the standard? At 500+ pages, it is heavy. Kurt Chan Hewlett Packard, Roseville Networks Division
kc@hprnd.HP.COM (Kurt Chan) (12/20/88)
A description of how to get involved with CAM and some history:
Date: September 30, 1988
To: Industry Representatives
Subject: Common Access Method Committee
At the SCSI Forum in February, Jim Rubino of Seagate spoke of "an effort to
develop a standard BIOS and a set of drivers for the PC market to make it a
total solution for the PC world. Other manufacturers who might be interested
were invited to join the club."
In the March Happenings issue of the ENDL Letter I wrote: "Software has to
change if the potential of intelligent interfaces is to be fulfilled. The
first hint that this might be about to happen was Jim Rubino's words on a
common BIOS to transcend individual differences. If Seagate convinces
Microsoft to talk to SCSI naturally we may see disk, tape and optical drives
sharing the same HBA as a scanner."
Since then I have bugged Jim on a random basis to fill me in on any progress
he has made. The Seagate effort has been a proprietary program developed in
conjunction with Cipher Data. The objective was to provide a common
interface to both disk and tape, with Seagate disks and Cipher tapes running
off the same Seagate HBA (Host Bus Adapter).
The Present
-----------
Only one company, Micropolis, approached Jim after his statement at the SCSI
Forum, which left the impression that there was little industry interest. In
mid-August, Seagate and Cipher agreed to discuss some characteristics of the
program with a few more companies that have peripherals oriented to PCs.
In light of the positive response to this limited survey, Seagate and Cipher
have decided to "take public" into an industry forum much of the development
effort expended to date.
Two documents are involved. The first is the Common Access Method, a
programmer's interface to SCSI. The latter will allow software drivers
and/or an HBA's on-board BIOS to handle the specifics associated with
generating SCSI command sequences and handling device status information.
The other is the subset of SCSI-2 required by the SCSI-2/CAM, a SCSI-facto
so to speak.
The concept of an industry group getting together to achieve a specific goal
has been successful for the Quarter Inch Committee and the ESDI Steering
Committee. I suggest we form a SCSI-2/CAM Committee along the same lines.
The Project
-----------
Anybody using a PC running under any operating system other than DOS cannot
be sure that SCSI peripherals are supported. Even the DOS user is faced with
a situation in which to connect a disk, a tape and a scanner he might wind
up having to buy separate host bus adapters. The problem is with the
software drivers that are unique to each.
The objectives of the SCSI-2/CAM Committee are to specify an environment in
which, with compliant hardware and software, a user can be assured of being
able to mix 'n match SCSI-facto peripherals on a single CAM-compliant HBA.
o Define a set of calls and I/O requests (Common Access Method), to assist
developers in writing code to support the PC environment.
o The SCSI-2/CAM will provide software with a wide range of SCSI functions
that are generic to HBAs.
o The SCSI-2/CAM will not require that software be SCSI-specific, SCSI-
expert, or be sensitive to SCSI nuances.
o Ensure the SCSI-2/CAM supports a broad range of peripherals.
o Provide a "pass-through" mode for special functions which may be device
specific or manufacturer dependent.
o Permit the SCSI-2/CAM functions to be incorporated into the BIOS (Basic
Input/Output System) chip of the HBA and save system memory.
o Pursue avenues to have SCSI-2/CAM become a formalized ANSI standard.
o Encourage broad-based software support for attaching SCSI devices to PCs.
o Document the implied specification (subset) of SCSI-2.
The Proposal
------------
Form a SCSI-2/CAM Committee to spread the burden of documentation and other
costs over many companies. The committee would have a recognized list of
members, with their names listed in the letterhead of committee stationery.
Member companies will be asked to contribute $2,000 to fund the effort of
defining the SCSI-2/CAM and SCSI-facto. All funds received will be placed in
a separate account and billed by ENDL on a time and materials basis. Copies
of billings against the account to be mailed to members on a regular basis.
There may be a need for continued funding when the original contributions
are disbursed, but the more companies that join, the lower that likelihood
(none were made for ESDI). A charge of $200 to defray the cost of document
distribution and maintenance would be levied on non-members.
A number of companies (Adaptec, Cipher Data, DEST, LMS OSD, Micropolis,
Seagate and Sytron) have already indicated their support of the goals listed
above. The first meeting of the SCSI-2/CAM Committee will be hosted by
Seagate at the Sunnyvale Hilton at 9:00 a.m. on October 19.
If you have any questions, please hold them until the meeting. I will be in
Japan at the ISO SC13 meeting from September 30 through October 7 and at the
ANSI plenary meetings in Boston from October 10 through 14.
Remember, everyone is welcome to join in the definition of the Common Access
Method. I hope to see you in Sunnyvale on October 19.
Yours sincerely,
I. Dal Allan
***************** Filename: Principles and Signup Sheet *****************
Reference: A Voluntary Effort to Develop the SCSI-2 Common
Access Method and Promote its Industry-wide use.
SCSI-2 CAM Committee Membership Fees $ 2,000.00
SCSI-2 CAM Committee Documentation $ 200.00
Surcharge for AIR MAIL to Overseas $ 100.00
Funds received will be retained in escrow until earned and
will be accounted for to the members of the CAM Committee.
Name: _______________________________
Title: _______________________________
Company: _______________________________
Address: _______________________________
_______________________________
_______________________________
Phone: ___________________
Please register me as the company representative on the CAM
Committee (includes documentation).
Check Enclosed: ___ Please Invoice me: ___
Purchase Order Number: _____________________
Signature: _________________________________
Please register me to receive documentation on activities of
the CAM Committee. Please add $100 for overseas delivery.
Check Enclosed: U.S. $200 Overseas $300
Purchase Orders Not Accepted
Signature: _________________________________
If you need further information, call:
I. Dal Allan 408-867-6630
Fx: 408-867-2115
PRINCIPLES OF OPERATION
-----------------------
The primary objective of the SCSI-2 CAM Committee is to define a de facto
set of services which will simplify the integration of SCSI, and widen the
market for SCSI products. The more limited the task we set as a committee,
the closer we come to specification(s) that will enhance interoperability
and plug compatibility.
Another objective is to submit the completed document(s) to ANSI to become
standards. There are several ways in which this may be accomplished: one may
work through the existing committee structures or petition ANSI directly for
the document(s) to be printed as standard(s). The process to be used will be
decided upon when we know better what it is that we have to offer to ANSI.
The principles of operation for the SCSI-2 CAM Committee are very similar to
those which proved successful for the ESDI Steering Committee.
There are three levels of participation:
- Attending the meetings is open to all, and any attendee can participate
in discussions.
- The minutes and copies of material which are discussed during meetings
are distributed only to those who sign up to receive documentation. The fee
for document distribution is $200 ($300 for overseas).
- The individuals representing companies which are members of the SCSI-2
CAM Committee receive a set of documentation and are entitled to vote on
issues that arise during the meetings. In rare cases, where it is felt that
all member companies should have a vote, they will be balloted by mail. The
fee to become a member is $2,000.
Material presented at SCSI-2 CAM Committee meetings becomes public domain.
There will be no restrictions on the open mailing of material presented at
committee meetings. Copies will be provided to members for any agenda item
to be discussed to reduce disagreements and misunderstandings. Hard copies
of all presentation material shall be provided for the mailing.
The sites of SCSI-2 CAM Committee meetings will rotate based on which member
companies volunteer to host the meetings. There will be no attempt made to
force alternating between East and West coast locations, or between Northern
and Southern California. In the event that more than one company volunteers
to host a meeting, the members will choose between the alternatives.
The funds received by ENDL to manage the committee are placed in escrow, and
drawn against as expenses are incurred. A full accounting of receipts and
disbursements is provided to member companies on a regular basis.
I. Dal Allan
Chairmankc@hprnd.HP.COM (Kurt Chan) (12/20/88)
OCTOBER 19 MEETING MINUTES
--------------------------
November 4, 1988
The first meeting of the SCSI-2 CAM (Common Access Method) Committee was
hosted on October 19 at the Sunnyvale Hilton by Seagate. The following
attendees were present:
Company Name Company Name
Adaptec B. Snively Columbia Data A. Welsh
E. Turner R. Tewell
Ballard Synergy C. Ballard Electronic Design B. Phillips
Bustek J. Chen Emulex M. Aarons
CDC Imprimis J. Worden Fujitsu America G. Chin
CFCL R. Morin J. Lee
Cipher Data D. Davies Hewlett Packard J. Dunning
A. Giorgiou Iomega L. Holmstrom
K. Kelly Laserdrive A. Ebright
L. Payne LMS OSD P. Boulay
Maxtor D. Banerje Optotech T. Putnam
F. Hannon Quantum J. McGrath
H. Meyer Seagate R. Perry
B. Mortensen J. Rubino
J. Safire M. Robinson
Maxtor/SDI L. Robinson D. Weber
Microport Systems G. Tollkahn Skillstech S. Kilsdonk
Miniscribe J. Mangan SMS J. Ellerbach
Mitsubishi J. Hamada Sony L. Lamers
Mitsumi Tech K. Westphal Sytron M. Evans
NCR D. Skinner Western Digital B. Bonner
The purpose of the first meeting was to gather information, set the goals,
and define the environment in which the SCSI-2 CAM Committee is to operate.
The principles of operation for the SCSI-2 CAM Committee are very similar to
those which proved successful for the ESDI Steering Committee. There are
three levels of participation:
- Attending the meetings is open to all, and any attendee can participate
in discussions.
- The minutes and copies of material which are discussed during meetings
are distributed only to those who sign up to receive documentation. The fee
for document distribution is $200 ($300 for overseas).
- The individuals representing companies which are members of the SCSI-2
CAM Committee receive a set of documentation and are entitled to vote on
issues that arise during the meetings. In rare cases, where it is felt that
all member companies should have a vote, they will be balloted by mail. The
fee to become a member is $2,000.
Material presented at SCSI-2 CAM Committee meetings becomes public domain.
There will be no restrictions on the distribution of material presented at
committee meetings.
The sites of SCSI-2 CAM Committee meetings will rotate based on which member
companies volunteer to host the meetings. There will be no attempt made to
force alternating between East and West coast locations, or between Northern
and Southern California. In the event that more than one company volunteers
to host a meeting, the members will choose between the alternatives.
The funds received by ENDL to manage the committee are placed in escrow, and
drawn against as expenses are incurred. A full accounting of receipts and
disbursements is provided to member companies on a regular basis.
The primary objective is to define a de facto set of services which will
simplify the integration of SCSI, and widen the market for SCSI products.
The more limited the task we set as a committee, the more likely will be
specifications that enhance interoperability and plug compatibility.
Another objective is to submit the completed document(s) to ANSI to become
standards. There are several ways in which this may be accomplished: one may
work through the existing committee structures or petition ANSI directly for
the document(s) to be printed as standard(s). The process to be used will be
decided upon when we know better what it is that we have to offer to ANSI.
Presentations were made by:
Jim Rubino Seagate Bruce Bonner Western Digital
Ron Perry Seagate Rick Tewell Columbia Data
Kim Kelly Cipher Larry Holmstrom Iomega
Jim McGrath Quantum Rich Morin CFCL
Jim Rubino put into perspective why Seagate had begun development on the SAM
(SCSI Access Module), and handed over to Ron Perry to give an overview of
what had been implemented (see S1-S2).
Booting is handled outside the SCSI model by ROM on the HBA. The total
memory requirement is approximately 20K bytes of "C" code, and the simplest
way to look upon the SAM is as a set of SCSI macros. Copies of the SAM
specification were provided (see S3-S10).
Kim Kelly of Cipher Data added his comments on the benefits of Seagate and
Cipher working together to provide common support for disk and tape. Copies
of the SCSI-Facto specification were provided (see C1-C75). This is a subset
of SCSI-2 as of Rev 2 that defines the baseline functionality needed to
support the SAM.
Jim McGrath of Quantum defined his company's interest (see Q1-Q4) as being
primarily in the ability to embed SCSI into a drive without there being a
physical SCSI bus present. He described some problems of this environment,
with references to the PC AT bus in particular. Jim believes the greatest
benefit of the CAM will come from a "severe pruning of SCSI functionality in
order to meet the goal of a precise, simple, software interface."
Bruce Bonner of Western Digital described SCSI as inherently incompatible
with operating systems. Manufacturers are faced with a three dimensional
Rubik's Cube of devices, busses and operating systems (see W1-W2). SCSI
should be irrelevant to the discussion on CAM insofar as the operating
system is concerned, especially if the goal is to be compatible with any ISV
(Independent Software Vendor) products.
Rick Tewell of Columbia Data Systems provided more detail. He described
Columbia's SDLPI (Standard Device Layer Protocol Interface) as "register
driven, real mode, single thread" for MS DOS on the device side and
structure driven, protected mode, multi-thread" to the operating system.
Disk partitioning has been designed so that a single device can host
multiple operating systems, each with its own unique characteristics.
The software implementation of SDLPI is under exclusive license to Western
Digital at this time. This means it cannot be licensed by others unless
Western Digital is involved. The 10/17 copy of the SDLPI was released to the
CAM Committee for general distribution (see CD1-CD16).
Larry Holmstrom of Iomega described the OAD (Open Architecture Driver) which
has been developed. A kernel has to be written for each operating system,
and a common library of tables is used for adapters and devices.
The interface to the operating system and the IOCTL are public interfaces,
but the configuration tables mapped for third party attachment are licensed.
Iomega plans to recover its development costs by charging royalties on all
products sold that operate with the Iomega driver/tables. There is a third-
party interface to support cacheing, encryption and other functions directly
outside the scope of typical I/O.
Licensing fees and Non Recurring Engineering expenses are applied as
necessary. There is no intent to open the interfaces at this time. None of
the material Larry presented was provided as hard copy in time for this
mailing.
Rich Morin of Canta Forda Computer Labs described the concept he has been
working with that he describes as "SCSI glue" (see CF1-CF5). The glue is
oriented towards SCSI devices not normally supported by the kernel but which
are needed by applications, and can support multiple SCSI host bus adapters
in one system.
Larry Lamers of Sony noted that SCSI has more functions than the operating
system, and the CAM Committee must choose between standardizing on function
or on structure. Columbia and Iomega offer a choice between register driven
and structure driven logic, the two are incompatible.
Bob Snively of Adaptec pointed out that the wrong attendees appeared to be
present, as everyone had the problem of attaching to systems. Participation
is needed by those who are the source of the attachment problems, such as
the BIOS writers and system integrators.
The following list of generic functional requirements was discussed:
- Layered interface
- Arbitrary packets
- Host bus independent
- Logical level interface
- Hardware bus independent
- Host processor independent
- Operating System independent
- Allow abstract device actions
- Be able to hide SCSI-specifics
- Multiple I/O buses on same system
- Bidirectional (multiple hosts on same bus)
- Both user and kernel mode access to SCSI peripherals
- Allow fully general devices (to not preclude oddball peripherals)
Given the wide variety of backgrounds present, some common ground has to be
established to base decisions upon. A number of volunteers came forward:
- Rick Tewell will have a primer on how DOS and Unix initiate I/O requests.
- Mike Evans (Sytron) is going to define what an ISV wants from the CAM.
- Jim McGrath is going to focus on the small system needs.
- Bob Snively volunteered a paper of general interest.
The goal is to complete a preliminary specification by June, 89. With two
different layers of software interfacing to work on (one oriented to the
SCSI/HBA and the other to the operating system), this is aggressive.
The next meeting will be hosted by Cipher Data in San Diego on December 7 at
9:00 a.m. The ANSI meetings are also being hosted by Cipher Data all week.
X3T9.2, which is responsible for SCSI-2, is meeting the previous two days.
This is peak season in San Diego and I strongly recommend that you make your
reservations at the Hyatt Islandia NOW! Call 800-228-9000 and be sure to
mention ANSI/Cipher.
Yours sincerely,
I. Dal Allan
Chairman