garye@hp-ptp.HP.COM (Gary_Ericson) (08/12/89)
There is a technique used by many people I know, including me, for taking notes
or jotting down ideas, and it has to do with including positional information
in the text to symbolize relationships between ideas. Two of the mechanisms I
use are indentation, to indicate an outline, and clustering, grouping words and
phrases together physically on the page to indicate their relationship.
I have always taken this for granted (maybe *everybody* takes notes this way, I
don't know). I have also taken for granted the fact that I just can't do this
on a computer as easily as I can on paper, especially in real-time (e.g., when
taking notes during a phone call). The keyboard channels the user into a
serial stream of input, while note taking like this requires a two-dimensional
approach.
Has anyone studied this method of recording ideas or information from a
cognitive process point-of-view? Do any computer systems exist that help the
user do this kind of note-taking/thought-organizing in real-time?
Gary Ericson - Hewlett-Packard, Workstation Systems Division
phone: (408)746-5098 mailstop: 101N email: gary@hpdsla9.hp.comruss@prism.gatech.EDU (Russell Shackelford) (08/14/89)
In article <1440004@hp-ptp.HP.COM>, garye@hp-ptp.HP.COM (Gary_Ericson) writes: > There is a technique used by many people I know, including me, for taking notes > or jotting down ideas, and it has to do with including positional information > in the text to symbolize relationships between ideas. Two of the mechanisms I > use are indentation, to indicate an outline, and clustering, grouping words and > phrases together physically on the page to indicate their relationship. > > I have always taken this for granted (maybe *everybody* takes notes this way, I > don't know). I have also taken for granted the fact that I just can't do this > on a computer as easily as I can on paper, especially in real-time (e.g., when > taking notes during a phone call). The keyboard channels the user into a > serial stream of input, while note taking like this requires a two-dimensional > approach. > > Has anyone studied this method of recording ideas or information from a > cognitive process point-of-view? Do any computer systems exist that help the > user do this kind of note-taking/thought-organizing in real-time? > > Gary Ericson - Hewlett-Packard, Workstation Systems Division > phone: (408)746-5098 mailstop: 101N email: gary@hpdsla9.hp.com it's an apparently natural (to western minds, at least) way to org things. have you tried Ready! from Symantec (Living Videotext Div, I think). It's mem resident and is a wonderful little outliner. expand amd contract, move things around etc. Grandview is the same idea taken to a further degree: each item in the outline can "hide" and entire document and/or another outline. i am assuming here that an outliner does what you do on paper, with use of CR's to define clusters in space at a given level of indentation. hope an interesting discussion involving many follows. this is a good topic that affects most folks. -- Russell Shackelford School of Information and Computer Science Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA, 30332 russ@prism.gatech.edu (404) 834-4759
carm@umd5.umd.edu (Rick Chimera) (08/18/89)
In article <1466@hydra.gatech.EDU> russ@prism.gatech.EDU (Russell Shackelford) writes: >In article <1440004@hp-ptp.HP.COM>, garye@hp-ptp.HP.COM (Gary_Ericson) writes: >> There is a technique used by many people I know, including me, for taking notes >> or jotting down ideas, and it has to do with including positional information >> in the text to symbolize relationships between ideas. Two of the mechanisms I >> use are indentation, to indicate an outline, and clustering, grouping words and >> phrases together physically on the page to indicate their relationship. [ some text deleted ] >> taking notes during a phone call). The keyboard channels the user into a >> serial stream of input, while note taking like this requires a two-dimensional >> approach. >> >> Gary Ericson - Hewlett-Packard, Workstation Systems Division >> phone: (408)746-5098 mailstop: 101N email: gary@hpdsla9.hp.com >have you tried Ready! from Symantec (Living Videotext Div, I think). It's >mem resident and is a wonderful little outliner. expand amd contract, move >things around etc. Grandview is the same idea taken to a further degree: >each item in the outline can "hide" and entire document and/or another >outline. > >i am assuming here that an outliner does what you do on paper, with >use of CR's to define clusters in space at a given level of indentation. >-- >Russell Shackelford >School of Information and Computer Science >Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA, 30332 >russ@prism.gatech.edu (404) 834-4759 I'd like to address the two-dimensional and grouping problem raised. A natural way to implement truly random 2D clustering of ideas can be imagined on a typical X WindowSystem type environment ("imagined" since I'm not familiar with lots of X applications, one may be out there). Starting with a blank page, one can ask for a new scrolling text subwindow, place and size it anywhere in the main window, and begin entering text. Should one enter more text than fits in the original size of the subwindow, the scrolling comes in to play. And no right-justification please, the shape of the text image is important. This simple idea takes advantage of two very important cognitive factors, size/shape information and spatial placement relative to other objects on the window (page). Very often when I am trying to remember items from my handwritten notes, I will "begin" remembering by realizing the item was at the top of the page or to the right of a particular doodle, etc. Then remember its shape, perhaps one line went out really far. These two attributes have been categorically lost in the computer world to date, except perhaps in the high powered, academic, workstation env. Systems such as Cognoter, a tool for a group, and NoteCards, a tool for an individual, by Xerox PARC allow such attributes of notes to be preserved. Rick Chimera (soon of) The Human Computer Interaction Laboratory, U of Md carm@umd5.umd.edu "The ideas expressed herein are now yours."
garye@hp-ptp.HP.COM (Gary_Ericson) (08/22/89)
> Starting with a blank page, one can ask for a new scrolling > text subwindow, place and size it anywhere in the main window, and > begin entering text. Should one enter more text than fits in the > original size of the subwindow, the scrolling comes in to play. > > Rick Chimera ---------- The problem with this, in my view, is it's not 'real-time'. I don't know about others' X Window systems, but mine takes many, many seconds to create and size a window. I just tried it, and, admittedly, my system is busy and memory-shy, but it took 35 seconds to ask the system to create a window, have it appear, position it, and size it. When I'm talking on the phone, I need to jot down a note in probably 3 seconds at the most or I'll lose the next comment. Gary Ericson - Hewlett-Packard, Workstation Systems Division phone: (408)746-5098 mailstop: 101N email: gary@hpdsla9.hp.com
carm@umd5.umd.edu (Rick Chimera) (08/23/89)
> >The problem with this, in my view, is it's not 'real-time'. I don't know about >others' X Window systems, but mine takes many, many seconds to create and size >a window. I just tried it, and, admittedly, my system is busy and memory-shy, >but it took 35 seconds to ask the system to create a window, have it appear, >position it, and size it. When I'm talking on the phone, I need to jot down a >note in probably 3 seconds at the most or I'll lose the next comment. > >Gary Ericson - Hewlett-Packard, Workstation Systems Division > phone: (408)746-5098 mailstop: 101N email: gary@hpdsla9.hp.com 35 seconds to create a window is absolutely unacceptable on any system! If your system is single user, then you might as well jump out the window (pun?). Anyway, the problem with my solution is not the solution itself, but the system on which it would be forced upon. Granted, that makes my solution inappropriate for your system; but I don't see the opportunity for many solutions to look promising on that system other than having a process ready and waiting to take such notes :-( Perhaps I'll come up with something in the background over the next couple of days. -Rick