[comp.dcom.modems] Microcom's misleading modem ad

rja@edison.GE.COM (rja) (05/03/89)

In article <28111@cci632.UUCP>, sz@cci632.UUCP (Stephen Zehl) writes:
> -
> 	I'm holding an advertisement from Microcom for their new V.32 modem
> that they claim runs at 38,400 bps in MNP Class 9.

Actually it only transports data at a raw speed of 9600 bps.  The difference
is totally accounted for by their compression.  Telebit's modems transport
at a raw speed of between 14K and 18K depending on telephone line quality.

> 	What's the story here?? 

The 38.4K only applies to uncompressed data.  The Telebit speed of
18K applies to data that has already been compressed, the Microcom
speed does not.

> 	Is this the END for TELEBIT TRAILBLAZERS ?

Hardly.

Most UUCP traffic has already been compressed so Microcom would move
it at only 9600 bps, while Telebit moves the same data at more or
less 18K.  The Telebit is still the better choice for UUCP sites.

Moreover, you would need _two_ Microcom modems (one on each end)
to use their compression or a V.32 if you were sending already
compressed data.  The V.32 modems will become more common than at
present, but Telebit's T2500 handles V.32 if you need it and besides
there are more UUCP sites that already have Telebit modems and so the
Microcom wouldn't be able to talk high-speed (9600) to very many other
sites (few V.32 sites yet either).

I'll be the first to advocate buying a better modem than a Telebit for
UUCP/Internet links, but there isn't one out there yet.

GE-Fanuc does own several Telebit modems,
but these aren't necessarily my employer's views.
______________________________________________________________________________
Internet  (vastly preferable) :         rja@edison.CHO.GE.COM  
UUCP (if you've got no choice):         ...uunet!virginia!edison!rja
______________________________________________________________________________

jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) (05/13/89)

In article <1937@edison.GE.COM> rja@edison.GE.COM (rja) writes:
>
> Most UUCP traffic has already been compressed so Microcom would move
> it at only 9600 bps, while Telebit moves the same data at more or
> less 18K.  The Telebit is still the better choice for UUCP sites.

V.32 modems move data on a good line at 9600 bps in TWO directions at
one time.  Uucp(1) makes no use of that capability.  It is a half-
duplex protocol.  A TB+ moves data on a good line at a theoretical
maximum of 18000 bps in ONE direction.  It uses a significant proportion
of that bandwidth to implement its PEP protocol, but it is still capable
of maintaining a sustained data rate, in one direction, that is greater
than is possible with V.32.

The TB+ is the modem of choice for uucp(1) communication because the
modem implements the g protocol.  When the computer in the master role
sends out a packet, the modem immediately acknowledges that the packet
was received correctly.  In this way, subsequent packets can be
transmitted immediately.  All other modems require that the packet be
verified by the computer running in the slave role.  If is was received
correctly, the acknowledgement must then be transmitted back to the
master before a subsequent packet can be transmitted.  This requires a
lot of time and is required even if the data are transmitted error free
by use of the MNP protocol.

It is not unreasonable to expect uucp transfers in excess of 800 bytes
per second, including all overhead, with a TB+ connected to a 9600 baud
interface.  This is wall time for transmitting multiple files of
precompressed data.  I know of no other modem, regardless of raw
transmission speed that comes close to accomplishing this.

> ... you would need _two_ Microcom modems (one on each end)
> to use their compression ...

Microcom is a very good and innovative company, and I have used their
2400 baud modems day in and day out with zero problems.  That fact not
withstanding, there is a very good possibility that MNP compression is
destined to become obsolete.  For V.42, a form of Lempel-Ziv compression
has been specified.  This is the reason Telebit could almost immediately
claim V.42 compatibility for the T2500; they already support compress(1).
--
John E Van Deusen III, PO Box 9283, Boise, ID  83707, (208) 343-1865

uunet!visdc!jiii

zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jon Zeeff) (05/13/89)

>The TB+ is the modem of choice for uucp(1) communication because the

>was received correctly.  In this way, subsequent packets can be
>transmitted immediately.  All other modems require that the packet be
>verified by the computer running in the slave role.  If is was received
>correctly, the acknowledgement must then be transmitted back to the
>master before a subsequent packet can be transmitted.  This requires a
>lot of time and is required even if the data are transmitted error free

This is incorrect.  Uucp sends multiple packets before needing an 
acknowledgement.  If uucp used larger packets, it would work fine (ie, 
have good performance) on these other modems.

-- 
  Jon Zeeff			zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us
  Ann Arbor, MI			sharkey!b-tech!zeeff

ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (05/14/89)

> This is incorrect.  Uucp sends multiple packets before needing an 
> acknowledgement.  If uucp used larger packets, it would work fine (ie, 
> have good performance) on these other modems.

Or sent more of them before blocking.  The problem is not so much the
time that it takes the remote host to process the packet, but the
delay in the telephone system that makes the larger windows necessary.
However, since UUCP doesn't use larger windows, trailblazers are going
to win for quite some time.

zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jon Zeeff) (05/14/89)

>> This is incorrect.  Uucp sends multiple packets before needing an 
>> acknowledgement.  If uucp used larger packets, it would work fine (ie, 
>> have good performance) on these other modems.
>
>Or sent more of them before blocking.  The problem is not so much the


The problem with just sending more of them is that many of these 
modems have a large turn around delay that you want to avoid as much 
as possible.  Others have a small reverse channel that the acks for 
small packets don't fit in.  

-- 
  Jon Zeeff			zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us
  Ann Arbor, MI			sharkey!b-tech!zeeff