[comp.dcom.modems] WARNING: SWB new 'standard' - RJ48S

phil@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Phil Meyer) (05/11/89)

We just completed a VERY difficult installation of a pair of MUXs over
a leased line from Dallas to Austin, Texas.

It may be relevant to anyone soon to do a similar project.

The only real difficulty was that Southwestern Bell is pushing to set a 
new standard for the rest of the world.  They now require their field
service people to install eight wire (RJ48S I think - more about that later)
connectors on their leased lines.  They are unwavering in their desire to
make life as bad as possible for us low lifes who have to deal with this
stuff.  
The tech who installed our lines didn't even know what kind of connector
it was that he was installing, but simply wrote 'eight wire' on the thing.
I cussed and threatened, but he wouldn't change it.  He suggested that
radio shack might have an adapter, or that I should contact 'my provider'.
Chew on that for a minute.  Wasn't HE my provider?  Anyway, I let him
get away without fully understanding the true nature of my problems.

I will list them for you, and the only good solution.

1. NOONE makes a RJ48S to RJ11 adapter.  In fact, few people even know
	what that is.  In fact, they aren't even sure what to call the
	thing.  I heard 'RJ75', 'RJ45', and someone at MCI said it has
	to be a RJ48S if it uses 4 wires.
2. Southwestern Bell cannot help you.  Their own people do not know the
	correct wiring for an adapter (after 10 days, I gave up).
3. Even the modem/MUX manufacturer that I dealt with was no help.  They
	claimed that they had done this once before, and maybe sales
	could FED EX me a cable.  (It was that 'maybe' that bothered me)

Solution:
	Have someone run an RJ11 directly off the the connector posts.
	There is a set of outputs there.  SWB now has a special modem on
	each end, and the connector post is located on the bottom.  Look
	for the line in, there is a set of outputs right on the same set
	of connector posts.  Forget trying to 'make' a cable.  

grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (05/12/89)

In article <8072@killer.Dallas.TX.US> phil@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Phil Meyer) writes:
> 
> We just completed a VERY difficult installation of a pair of MUXs over
> a leased line from Dallas to Austin, Texas.
> 
> It may be relevant to anyone soon to do a similar project.
> 
> The only real difficulty was that Southwestern Bell is pushing to set a 
> new standard for the rest of the world.  They now require their field
> service people to install eight wire (RJ48S I think - more about that later)
> connectors on their leased lines.  They are unwavering in their desire to
> make life as bad as possible for us low lifes who have to deal with this
> stuff.  

Am I missing something?  This has been standard in the rest of the US for
quite a while, not to mention the RJ11 jack simply plugs in, and the data
pair(s) happen to be on the middle 2(4) pairs...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,	uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing	arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net
Commodore, Engineering Department	fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)

ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (05/13/89)

If it is just a programmable data jack, why not shove the
RJ-11 plug into the middle 4 pins, it will fit, and works.

-Ron

howeird@hpwrce.HP.COM (Howard Stateman) (05/16/89)

> phil@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Phil Meyer) writes:

>The only real difficulty was that Southwestern Bell is pushing to set a 
>new standard for the rest of the world.  They now require their field
>service people to install eight wire (RJ48S I think - more about that later)
>connectors on their leased lines.  They are unwavering in their desire to
>make life as bad as possible for us low lifes who have to deal with this
>stuff.  

RJ45 has >always< been the leased line standard. I've been installing 
MUXes since 1980, and have never seen anything else. I have installed
at Pacific NW Bell, Pacific Bell and in Winnipeg, Canada (whatever telco
they may have) sites. RJ45 is the 8-wire jack, as far as I can tell.

It sounds like SWB has finally decided to adopt the standard.

>1. NOONE makes a RJ48S to RJ11 adapter.  In fact, few people even know
	>what that is.  In fact, they aren't even sure what to call the
	>thing.  I heard 'RJ75', 'RJ45', and someone at MCI said it has
	>to be a RJ48S if it uses 4 wires.

No one makes one because no one needs one. Another part of the standard 
is that the RJ connections are wired from the center of the connector
outward. That is, a 2-wire RJ connection (such as standard domestic 
single-line phones) uses the inside 2 wires. 4-wire connections use
the inside 4 wires. And so on.

Which means if your site only uses 4 of the 8 wires, it will always 
use the same 4 (inside) wires, and you can just plug the sucker
right into the 8-wire jack.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------
|Howard Stateman, Hewlett-Packard Response Center, Mountain View, CA |
|howeird@hpwrce.HP.COM      or     hplabs!hpwrce!howeird             |
|Disclaimer: I couldn't possibly speak for HP. I know too much.      |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Sysop of the Anatomically Correct BBS (415) 364-3739                |
 --------------------------------------------------------------------

howeird@hpwrce.HP.COM (Howard Stateman) (05/16/89)

From howeird Mon May 15 10:12:10 1989
Relay-Version: version Notes 2.8.2  87/11/24; site hpwrce.HP.COM
From: howeird@hpwrce.HP.COM (Howard Stateman)
Date: Mon, 15 May 1989 17:12:10 GMT
Date-Received: Mon, 15 May 1989 17:12:10 GMT
Subject: Re: WARNING:  SWB new 'standard' - RJ48S
Message-ID: <7320001@hpwrce.HP.COM>
Organization: Ye Olde Salt Mines
Path: hpwrce!howeird
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Posting-Version: version Notes 2.8.2  87/11/24; site hpwrce.HP.COM
References: <8072@killer.Dallas.TX.US>

> phil@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Phil Meyer) writes:

>The only real difficulty was that Southwestern Bell is pushing to set a 
>new standard for the rest of the world.  They now require their field
>service people to install eight wire (RJ48S I think - more about that later)
>connectors on their leased lines.  They are unwavering in their desire to
>make life as bad as possible for us low lifes who have to deal with this
>stuff.  

RJ45 has >always< been the leased line standard. I've been installing 
MUXes since 1980, and have never seen anything else. I have installed
at Pacific NW Bell, Pacific Bell and in Winnipeg, Canada (whatever telco
they may have) sites. RJ45 is the 8-wire jack, as far as I can tell.

It sounds like SWB has finally decided to adopt the standard.

>1. NOONE makes a RJ48S to RJ11 adapter.  In fact, few people even know
	>what that is.  In fact, they aren't even sure what to call the
	>thing.  I heard 'RJ75', 'RJ45', and someone at MCI said it has
	>to be a RJ48S if it uses 4 wires.

No one makes one because no one needs one. Another part of the standard 
is that the RJ connections are wired from the center of the connector
outward. That is, a 2-wire RJ connection (such as standard domestic 
single-line phones) uses the inside 2 wires. 4-wire connections use
the inside 4 wires. And so on.

Which means if your site only uses 4 of the 8 wires, it will always 
use the same 4 (inside) wires, and you can just plug the sucker
right into the 8-wire jack.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------
|Howard Stateman, Hewlett-Packard Response Center, Mountain View, CA |
|howeird@hpwrce.HP.COM      or     hplabs!hpwrce!howeird             |
|Disclaimer: I couldn't possibly speak for HP. I know too much.      |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Sysop of the Anatomically Correct BBS (415) 364-3739                |
 --------------------------------------------------------------------

kenn@Apple.COM (Kenn Walker) (05/16/89)

In article <6839@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes:
>In article <8072@killer.Dallas.TX.US> phil@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Phil Meyer) writes:
>> We just completed a VERY difficult installation of a pair of MUXs over
>> a leased line from Dallas to Austin, Texas.
 
>> The only real difficulty was that Southwestern Bell is pushing to set a 
>> new standard for the rest of the world.  They now require their field
>> service people to install eight wire (RJ48S I think - more about that later)
>> connectors on their leased lines.  They are unwavering in their desire to
>> make life as bad as possible for us low lifes who have to deal with this
>> stuff.  

>Am I missing something?  This has been standard in the rest of the US for
>quite a while, not to mention the RJ11 jack simply plugs in, and the data
>pair(s) happen to be on the middle 2(4) pairs...

Actually, the RJ-48 I just had installed (they did it on their own, not by
my request (the RJ-48 that is)) is wired with the transmit and receive
pairs on the outside four pins. There is no way that an RJ-11 can utilize
that connector. An RJ-45 (which is physically the exact same fargin' jack)
is wired as a super-set of the RJ-11 and will allow you to plug in.

kenn


"How can my employer be responsible for what I say, when he can't
understand me in the first place???" (i.e. Standard Disclaimer)
Kenneth E. Walker  			
Apple Integrated Systems, Apple Computer, Inc.

grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (05/19/89)

In article <30772@apple.Apple.COM> kenn@Apple.COM (Kenn Walker) writes:
> In article <6839@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes:
> >In article <8072@killer.Dallas.TX.US> phil@killer.Dallas.TX.US (Phil Meyer) writes:
> >> We just completed a VERY difficult installation of a pair of MUXs over
> >> a leased line from Dallas to Austin, Texas.
...
> >Am I missing something?  This has been standard in the rest of the US for
> >quite a while, not to mention the RJ11 jack simply plugs in, and the data
> >pair(s) happen to be on the middle 2(4) pairs...
> 
> Actually, the RJ-48 I just had installed (they did it on their own, not by
> my request (the RJ-48 that is)) is wired with the transmit and receive
> pairs on the outside four pins. There is no way that an RJ-11 can utilize
> that connector. An RJ-45 (which is physically the exact same fargin' jack)
> is wired as a super-set of the RJ-11 and will allow you to plug in.

Hmmm, that puts a bit of a differnt light on it.  Did you specify anything
"special" like a metallic circuit, DDS, or exotic conditioning?  Did you
specify nothing about termination?  I've found some installers that coudn't
conceive doing anything except what is on their work order, others seem
willing to do whatever you want.  The biggest problem is usually ordering
the lines in first place with the right babble and key-words...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,	uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing	arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net
Commodore, Engineering Department	fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)