[comp.dcom.modems] Searching for inexpensive V.32 9600 bps modems

jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) (03/02/90)

Well I've made my decision on what kind of modem to purchase.  I had
originally thought that a Telebit T1000 or Telebit Trailblazer would
be the appropriate modem for me, with it's built in support for UUCP
resistance to line noise and and high speed transfer rates.  At least
one poster pointed out, however, that I might be making a mistake with
the Telebits and I can see now that they were right, so I've decided
to purchase a Racal Vadic 9632VP V.32 compatible modem.

The rational:

Telebits are great for UUCP transfer and high-speed transfers with
other Telebits.  You just can't beat 'em.  They are also quite
reliable even over cruddy communications lines.  The problem is that
all of the Telebits are EXPENSIVE ($550 for the least expensive
Telebit) and do high-speed transfers using their own proprietary PEP
protocol.  This is achieved by running the line in half-duplex mode
and the Telebits are notorious for slow line turnarounds which means
running SLIP on a Telebit would be PAINFUL.  Telebit does manufacture
a V.32 modem which also incorproates PEP but this modem is $1050
discount pricing.  Too much for me.

MacUser, a Macintosh magazine, ran a big article on high speed modems
recently in which they tested and rated different manufacturers' V.32
modems.  They rated the CONNECT service modem as tops due to it's
superior performance and all the little extras that CONNECT throws in.
CONNECT is apparently a business oriented bulletin board service so
you get a free subscription and 1 hour's connect time to their service
with the modem.  The problem with this is the price:  $999 for a lot
of stuff I don't need.

 The Racal Vadic 9632VP rated second with excellent throughput and
very good resistance to noise.  The USR Courier V.32 rated just behind
the Racal.  Although the USR was slightly faster, it was much more
expensive.  The runners up included the Prometheus ProModem 9600 and
Mac Friends Lightspeed.  The Mutltitech V.32 modem showed
dissapointing performance and line noise resistance, despite the
ravings about Multitech modems on the net.  The Prometheus and
Lightspeed similarly showed only average throughput and noise
resistance.

The lowest price for the Racal Vadic, that I've found, is $650 from
Lex Computers in Columbia Maryland.  That's a VERY good price for a
V.32 modem.  The USR Courier V.32 can't be had for anything less than
$900.  The Prometheus and Mutitech modems show solid although average
performance at a decent price.  The Prometheus can be obtained
mailorder for about $750 and the Multitech is available from Avnet
(414) 796-2400 for about $680.

So, the Racal looks best with the lowest price and second place
performance characterstics.  Cowabunga!

Since most of the high-speed modems in my calling vicinity are Telebit
T2500's, they will also support V.32 and it will be possible to
converse with them at the higher rates if necessary.  I also believe
that proprietary protocols (as nice as the g protocol spoofing and PEP
are) are a thing of the past.  The emergent standards of today will be
the defato standards of tomorrow so V.32 is it.  V.32 also means SLIP
support!  The only problem is that I won't be able to talk to Telebits
in PEP mode.  Big deal.

Enjoy!

jjj@batgirl.hut.fi (Joni Jaakko J{rvenkyl{) (03/02/90)

In article <8398@potomac.ads.com> jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) writes:
>very good resistance to noise.  The USR Courier V.32 rated just behind
>the Racal.  Although the USR was slightly faster, it was much more
>expensive.

I got a USR V.32 a couple of weeks ago and I must admit it's the best modem
I've EVER tested (and that covers quite a lot of them, although not Microcom
MNP9 stuff).

I've had no problems with setup, connectivity, line noise or anything. This
is close to perfect. Well, it doesn't cook your morning coffee...
I've found no bugs, odd behaviour or anything what usually is found in every
modem sooner or later. I must admit I'm pretty astonished.

>Mac Friends Lightspeed.  The Mutltitech V.32 modem showed
>dissapointing performance and line noise resistance, despite the
>ravings about Multitech modems on the net.

I don't understand the hassle about Multitech modems at all. Well, they do
have call back, but that's only a small plus compared to the overall
performance, "ease" of use and so on.


--
totuus ilman rakkautta;rakkaus ilman totuutta;tunteeton el{m{;vahinko.

larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (03/02/90)

In article <1990Mar1.204011.28258@santra.uucp>, jjj@batgirl.hut.fi (Joni Jaakko J{rvenkyl{) writes:

Have you checked with USR on the refurb modems?  They were selling
HSTs for something like $349 ($399) - and I don't know if they
are also selling the refurb V.32 /dual standards.

-- 
          Larry Snyder, Northern Star Communications, Notre Dame, IN USA 
                uucp: larry@nstar -or- ...!iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry
               4 inbound dialup high speed line public access system

paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) (03/03/90)

jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) writes:

>Telebits are great for UUCP transfer and high-speed transfers with
>other Telebits.  You just can't beat 'em.  They are also quite
>reliable even over cruddy communications lines.  The problem is that
>all of the Telebits are EXPENSIVE ($550 for the least expensive
>Telebit) and do high-speed transfers using their own proprietary PEP
>protocol.  This is achieved by running the line in half-duplex mode
>and the Telebits are notorious for slow line turnarounds which means
>running SLIP on a Telebit would be PAINFUL.  Telebit does manufacture
>a V.32 modem which also incorproates PEP but this modem is $1050
>discount pricing.  Too much for me.

Have you tried a telebit recently?  I use a TB+ to talk to a T2500 on a
Cisco terminal server and have not noted slow echoing.  The SLIP issue
is likely to become a non-issue now that the PPP RFC has been issued.
I expect Telebit to have some sort of SLIP support relatively soon since
there is a large demand for it.  No guarantees from me though.

>Since most of the high-speed modems in my calling vicinity are Telebit
>T2500's, they will also support V.32 and it will be possible to
>converse with them at the higher rates if necessary.  I also believe
>that proprietary protocols (as nice as the g protocol spoofing and PEP
>are) are a thing of the past.  The emergent standards of today will be
>the defato standards of tomorrow so V.32 is it.  V.32 also means SLIP
>support!  The only problem is that I won't be able to talk to Telebits
>in PEP mode.  Big deal.

I disagree.  The performance edge of the Telebits is so great I would not
consider a V.32 only modem.  The defacto standard that I see is PEP and
not V.32.
--
         Paul Pomes

UUCP: {att,iuvax,uunet}!uiucuxc!paul   Internet, BITNET: paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu
US Mail:  UofIllinois, CSO, 1304 W Springfield Ave, Urbana, IL  61801-2987

nemisis@blake.acs.washington.edu (Karen McElroy) (03/03/90)

In article <511217@nstar.UUCP>, larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) writes:
> In article <1990Mar1.204011.28258@santra.uucp>, jjj@batgirl.hut.fi (Joni Jaakko J{rvenkyl{) writes:
> 
> Have you checked with USR on the refurb modems?  They were selling
> HSTs for something like $349 ($399) - and I don't know if they
> are also selling the refurb V.32 /dual standards.
> 
> -- 
>           Larry Snyder, Northern Star Communications, Notre Dame, IN USA 
>                 uucp: larry@nstar -or- ...!iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry
>                4 inbound dialup high speed line public access system

Where can I check for more info about this? $349 for V.32 9600 bps modems.
 

hsu@hutcs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) (03/04/90)

In article <1990Mar2.220228.2836@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) writes:
>I disagree.  The performance edge of the Telebits is so great I would not
>consider a V.32 only modem.  The defacto standard that I see is PEP and

There is another point pro telebits also; V32 doesn't work reliably
overseas. Never seen succesfull connection with any V32 modem. I have tried
modems which have been tested to work on local and in-scandinavia
connections, with no luck.

-
Heikki Suonsivu, @ 2:504/1, Kuutamokatu 5 A 7/02210 Espoo/FINLAND,
hsu@otax.tky.hut.fi (or @hutcs.hut.fi or @clinet.fi), mcsun!hutcs!hsu,
riippu SN, voice +358-0-8030017, Email preferable.

cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) (03/04/90)

In article <1990Mar2.220228.2836@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) writes:
>
>I disagree.  The performance edge of the Telebits is so great I would not
>consider a V.32 only modem.  The defacto standard that I see is PEP and
>not V.32.

How can you say the defacto standard is PEP when there is only 1 manufacturer
that uses it?

V.32 is used by every major modem manufacturer and is formally documented
as a standard.  

I have 8 9600+ baud modems, all of which understand V.32 and two of which
understand PEP.

PEP alone is ok if you want to limit yourself and anybody you will connect
with to a single manufacturer.  To me, that is too much of a limitation
even if it is fast.  Pleas note that I am not downing PEP, I use it for
my newsfeed, but for interactive connections with lots of different types
of modems, I will always go with a V.32 modem that will also talk V.22 and 
V.22bis.

The T2500 fits all of these requirements, but is too expensive.
-- 
--
Conor P. Cahill            (703)430-9247        Virtual Technologies, Inc.,
uunet!virtech!cpcahil                           46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160
                                                Sterling, VA 22170 

larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (03/05/90)

> Where can I check for more info about this? $349 for V.32 9600 bps modems.

Call 1-800-DIAL-USR and ask for information on their refurbished modems.


-- 
The Northern Star Public Access Unix Site, Notre Dame, Indiana USA 
     uucp: iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry    internet: larry@nstar
USR HST 219-287-9020 * PEP 219-289-3745	* Hayes V9600 219-289-0286

paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) (03/05/90)

cpcahil@virtech.uucp (Conor P. Cahill) writes:

>How can you say the defacto standard is PEP when there is only 1 manufacturer
>that uses it?

Easily since all the sites I'm interested in calling have Telebits.  Some also
have V.32.

>V.32 is used by every major modem manufacturer and is formally documented
>as a standard.  
>
>I have 8 9600+ baud modems, all of which understand V.32 and two of which
>understand PEP.

The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
(Tanenbaum).  A standard like V.32 that can't maintain a connection over less
than perfect lines is useless to me.  Two immediate examples are the neighboring
GTE service area and international calls.  Three kinds of V.32 modems could not
maintain a connection from either to UIUC while the telebits ran w.o. problem.

>PEP alone is ok if you want to limit yourself and anybody you will connect
>with to a single manufacturer.  To me, that is too much of a limitation
>even if it is fast.  Pleas note that I am not downing PEP, I use it for
>my newsfeed, but for interactive connections with lots of different types
>of modems, I will always go with a V.32 modem that will also talk V.22 and 
>V.22bis.

I will take the best available that fits my needs.  V.32 is a bad standard
in my book given its performance losses.  Handling noisy or sub-standard
lines by dropping back to 4800 or 2400 baud is hardly what I would call 
robust.

>The T2500 fits all of these requirements, but is too expensive.

Modems that can't perform are even more expensive.
--
         Paul Pomes

UUCP: {att,iuvax,uunet}!uiucuxc!paul   Internet, BITNET: paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu
US Mail:  UofIllinois, CSO, 1304 W Springfield Ave, Urbana, IL  61801-2987

grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) (03/05/90)

In article <1990Mar3.164553.29588@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes:
> In article <1990Mar2.220228.2836@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) writes:
> >
> >I disagree.  The performance edge of the Telebits is so great I would not
> >consider a V.32 only modem.  The defacto standard that I see is PEP and
> >not V.32.
> 
> How can you say the defacto standard is PEP when there is only 1 manufacturer
> that uses it?

As long as you are thinking in the Unix/usenet/uucp context PEP is the defacto
standard for > 2400bps communication.  If you don't think so, then perform
some analysis on info from the uucp maps or other sources.
 
> V.32 is used by every major modem manufacturer and is formally documented
> as a standard.  
 
"Formally documented" implies "dejure" not "defacto".  Sure lots of modem
manufactures are supporting V.32, on the other hand, it's not obvious that
they're in a big hurry to drop their proprietary protocols...

> I have 8 9600+ baud modems, all of which understand V.32 and two of which
> understand PEP.

I have 16 9600+ modems and ~30 more dispersed, all of which understand PEP
and do what I expect of them pretty reliably.  Two of these modems also
understand V.32 and have been used a handful of times to contact Tymenet
or BBS systems.  I've never had occasion to make a uucp connection with one.

> PEP alone is ok if you want to limit yourself and anybody you will connect
> with to a single manufacturer.  To me, that is too much of a limitation
> even if it is fast.  Pleas note that I am not downing PEP, I use it for
> my newsfeed, but for interactive connections with lots of different types
> of modems, I will always go with a V.32 modem that will also talk V.22 and 
> V.22bis.

It's fairly obvious that each of the Telebit, USR HST and V.32 standards have
achieved sufficient penetration in specific market segment that if you expect
to interact with one of those segments you are kidding yourself if you can't
support the appropriate protocol.

> The T2500 fits all of these requirements, but is too expensive.

Hopefully that will change, but it would also help if Telebit would break
down and support HST mode as an alternative.  There is no obvious technical
reason why their modem hardware can't handle the task...
-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)

steve@wattres.UUCP (Steve Watt) (03/05/90)

In article <1990Mar3.164553.29588@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes:
>In article <1990Mar2.220228.2836@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) writes:
>>
>>I disagree.  The performance edge of the Telebits is so great I would not
>>consider a V.32 only modem.  The defacto standard that I see is PEP and
>>not V.32.
>
>How can you say the defacto standard is PEP when there is only 1 manufacturer
>that uses it?

Let me introduce you to the VenTel Pathfinder 18K.  It also supports PEP, and
I have had nothing but good service from it.  I remember seeing one other
(Everex?  Dunno...) but Telebit is NOT the only manufacturer of PEP modems.
Price?  Uhh...  Call Ventel?  I don't remember! :)

Just my $.89.

-- 
Steve Watt
...!claris!wattres!steve		wattres!steve@claris.com also works
If you torture your data long enough, it'll eventually confess.

larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (03/05/90)

In article <435@wattres.UUCP>, steve@wattres.UUCP (Steve Watt) writes:
> 
> Let me introduce you to the VenTel Pathfinder 18K.  It also supports PEP, and
> I have had nothing but good service from it.  I remember seeing one other
> (Everex?  Dunno...) but Telebit is NOT the only manufacturer of PEP modems.
> Price?  Uhh...  Call Ventel?  I don't remember! :)

I thought that the Pathfinder was a Trailblazer Plus in a Ventel case.


-- 
The Northern Star Public Access Unix Site, Notre Dame, Indiana USA 
     uucp: iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry    internet: larry@nstar
USR HST 219-287-9020 * PEP 219-289-3745	* Hayes V9600 219-289-0286

loverso@Xylogics.COM (John Robert LoVerso) (03/06/90)

In article <1990Mar3.164553.29588@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes:
> The T2500 fits all of these requirements, but is too expensive.

The really expensive part is the bit-pump.  I.e., the T2500 (and newer-style
TB+) have a considerable amount of computing power.  And this is why the
T1000 can't do better than 9600bps; it just doesn't have the power!

In article <9977@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax (George Robbins) writes:
> ...it would also help if Telebit would break down and support HST mode
> as an alternative.

Why?  What would HST give them that PEP and/or V.32 already doesn't?
They've already got one proprietaty protocol - why give into another
vendor's creation?  Besides, PEP has the ability to hold onto a
connection that V.32 (with or without MNP) would drop.  I.e., lossy
lines or calling to the UK.  From home, I most always use V.32 on
my T2500, but during one particularly bad thunderstorm, I had such
severe crackling on the line that only PEP would keep the connection
going (for 5 hours).

John

yossie@marque.mu.edu (03/06/90)

Well, I called up USR this morning and asked about the "refurbished modem"
deal.  The guy had the following to say:

1) Its ONLY on Courier 9600 modems, no V.32, no 14.4K mode.  Vanilla 9600.
2) Its $350 (resonable, actually)
3) There is a 3 (three!) month waiting list for them.  Actually I suspect
   its much longer as I have a friend who ordered one 5 months ago and
   hasn't even heard a squeek from them yet!

I also got the informtion from Avnet computers regarding the MultiSystems
V.32 modem.  The list is $1099, they are charging $680.  The modem seems
very nice, although they didn't really send me much in the way of technical
data.  The company would seem to be reputable, it is a part of Avnet Inc.
which is a Fortune 500 company.  They have numbers and branches in many
cities, I think that calling 800-877-2226 will get you a general information
line.  You might try calling MultiTech at 800-328-9717 to find out the
nearest dealer to you.

Cheers - Yossie

P.s. the latest GLOBAL catalog has the Courier HST priced at $775 (list is
$995).

hakanson@ogicse.ogi.edu (Marion Hakanson) (03/06/90)

In article <8612@xenna.Xylogics.COM> loverso@Xylogics.COM (John Robert LoVerso) writes:
>. . .
>The really expensive part is the bit-pump.  I.e., the T2500 (and newer-style
>TB+) have a considerable amount of computing power.  And this is why the
>T1000 can't do better than 9600bps; it just doesn't have the power!

You are correct that the T1000 cannot go as fast as the TB+ or T2500,
but you are mistaken about 9600bps being the T1000's top speed.  If you
check the appropriate S-register (there's one for xmit and one for rcv
bit rates), a clean line will report the maximum of 11600 (or in that
ballpark, I forget the exact numbers).

To verify their claim, I measured throughput (using zmodem) with the
serial line set at 9600bps and compared it to a transfer with the line
set at 19200bps (both trials were with the T1000 connected to a TB+
running at 19200bps on the other end).  The higher line speed yielded
higher throughput.  So don't sell the T1000 short on that count.

-- 
Marion Hakanson         Domain: hakanson@cse.ogi.edu
                        UUCP  : {hp-pcd,tektronix}!ogicse!hakanson

larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (03/06/90)

In article <9675@marque.mu.edu>, yossie@marque.mu.edu writes:
> 
> P.s. the latest GLOBAL catalog has the Courier HST priced at $775 (list is
> $995).

SYSOP price on the HST is something like $450 ($720 for the dual standard)
and the dealer price for the HST is $589 (Tech Data).


-- 
The Northern Star Public Access Unix Site, Notre Dame, Indiana USA 
     uucp: iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry    internet: larry@nstar
USR HST 219-287-9020 * PEP 219-289-3745	* Hayes V9600 219-289-0286

grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) (03/06/90)

In article <8612@xenna.Xylogics.COM> loverso@Xylogics.COM (John Robert LoVerso) writes:
> In article <1990Mar3.164553.29588@virtech.uucp> cpcahil@virtech.UUCP (Conor P. Cahill) writes:
> > The T2500 fits all of these requirements, but is too expensive.
> 
> The really expensive part is the bit-pump.  I.e., the T2500 (and newer-style
> TB+) have a considerable amount of computing power.  And this is why the
> T1000 can't do better than 9600bps; it just doesn't have the power!
> 
> In article <9977@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax (George Robbins) writes:
> > ...it would also help if Telebit would break down and support HST mode
> > as an alternative.
> 
> Why?  What would HST give them that PEP and/or V.32 already doesn't?

Simply because the HST is a very popular item in the BBS/PC world and having
HST compatibility in the trailblazer would increase the general utility of
the modem.  I'd expect it to do wonders for T1000 sales if it didn't add
to the cost.  It's also a better interactive mode than PEP, even with the
short packets - you've probably noticed this if you use rn or vi over your
Tailblazer.

Theoretically, it should be be easy.  Any modem that can do V.32 and has
programmable guts should be able to do 9600 QAM + back channel without
even straining.  Of couse there may be practical problems, the T2500's I
have do V.32 by virtual of a Rockwell chipset piggyback board instead of
using the DSP chip as originally expected... 

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)

steve@wattres.UUCP (Steve Watt) (03/06/90)

In article <511247@nstar.UUCP> larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) writes:
>In article <435@wattres.UUCP>, steve@wattres.UUCP (Steve Watt) writes:
>> 
>> Let me introduce you to the VenTel Pathfinder 18K.  It also supports PEP, and
[ brief ad for VenTel omitted ]
>
>I thought that the Pathfinder was a Trailblazer Plus in a Ventel case.

Nope.  The case is about 1/2 the size of the Trailblazer Plus internal board.
Unless they found a way to cut the board from Telebit in half... :)

On the other hand, it may be manufactured by Telebit...  Dunno.

-- 
Steve Watt
...!claris!wattres!steve		wattres!steve@claris.com also works
If you torture your data long enough, it'll eventually confess.

csg@pyramid.pyramid.com (Carl S. Gutekunst) (03/08/90)

In article <8398@potomac.ads.com> jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) writes:
>The Mutltitech V.32 modem showed dissapointing performance and line noise
>resistance, despite the ravings about Multitech modems on the net.

I think they were being excessively generous. The MultiTech V.32 is garbage.
Plain garbage. Don't even *think* of buying one. A pity, too, since most of
their other modems are quite good, and good value.

<csg>

jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) (04/07/90)

In article <14965@cbnews.ATT.COM> mjs@cbnews.ATT.COM (martin.j.shannon,59112,lc,4nr10,201 580 5757) writes:
>Uucp's g protocol works flawlessly from a USR Dual Standard (speaking V.32)
>to a Telebit T2500 (and verse visa [sic!]).  They even agree on MNP5 (and
>get it right).  (Now, if only I could get NJBell to stop trashing the line,
>I'd be all set!)

That's running in V.32 mode, not at 14400.  If I wanted to run at 9600,
I'd still get a Telebit because I wouldn't have to worry about my line
being noisy.

>as BBSs run under UNIX become popular.  The DOS folks are getting
>Telebits to talk to their favorite BBSs that just happen to run on a
>UNIX box that has Telebit modems, and the UNIX folks are getting USR
>HST modems because their favorite news feed happens to be a FIDO BBS
>(presumably running ufgate) that has USR modems.  Soon, the fancy but

I don't know anyone that has their newsfeed coming from a FIDO BBS. 
And most people don't get their newsfeed from a FIDO BBS - especially
if they are running unix.

>The bottom line is get whichever flavor of 14400 bits/sec you like for
>*today*, but get a V.32 capable modem for next week.

Telebits are not a flavor of 14.4.  They are a flavor af 19.2.
And V.32 is becoming obsolete already.  If I was looking for the best
modem to buy to run with unix and to get a newsfeed with, there's
absolutely no doubt I'd get a Telebit before anything eles (and have).
V.32 and nothing else can compare.

It seems to me that the hostility towards Telebits are being displayed
by those used to the DOS world coming into the unix world.  If you
are going to remain in DOS, get an HST.  If you are going to work with
unix, get a Telebit - not an HST, not a V.32.  A Telebit.  Period.
The number of _unix_ sites running HSTs vs. running Telebits are
negligible.


-- 
Jesse W. Asher - Dynasys - (901)382-1705     Evening: (901)382-1609 
6196-1 Macon Rd., Suite 200, Memphis, TN 38134  
UUCP: {fedeva,chromc,autoz}!dynasys!jessea

a186@mindlink.UUCP (Harvey Taylor) (04/07/90)

In <134@dynasys.UUCP>, jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes:
} [...]
}
} The number of _unix_ sites running HSTs vs. running Telebits are
} negligible.
}
 Jesse,
     Can you document this? I tried to get this kind of info from our
 sysop, but he says he doesn't have the uucp maps, the only source I
 know from which to extract such data. The folklore I have heard is that
 HST has the BBSes, PEP has Unix & Hayes has business, but I have never
 seen figures for Unix sites (or business). I pulled some data for Fido
 sites from a local board (see below).
     Considering the computational power of these high speed modems it
 will be interesting to see how cheap they become. As has been said
 ad nauseam, the best thing about V.32 is that it enables competition
 and _lower_ prices. PEP and HST will always be proprietary.
     Here is that FidoNet modem distribution data.
---
   Modem statistics for FidoNet
   Produced on 12-03-1989 at 13:28:38

Modem Baud Rates for all Zones

       300 baud   modems      54
      1200 baud   modems     386
      2400 baud   modems   3,899
      4800 baud   modems       4
      9600 baud   modems   2,531
            Total modems   6,488

Modem Flags for 9600 Baud modems in all Zones

      V29         modems       1
      V32         modems     469
      V33         modems       0
      V34         modems       0
      V42         modems      17
      H96         modems      33
      HST         modems   2,093
      MAX         modems      11
      PEP         modems     194
      HST/V32     modems     353
---
  "The chief enemy of creativity is `good' taste." -Picasso
      Harvey Taylor      Meta Media Productions
       uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!Harvey_Taylor
               a186@mindlink.UUCP

larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (04/08/90)

> I don't know anyone that has their newsfeed coming from a FIDO BBS. 
> And most people don't get their newsfeed from a FIDO BBS - especially
> if they are running unix.

If that were the case - wow - what a load.  uucp with the HST (non dual)
at best produces 355 cps (I was offering this service).  Forget the 355
cps using ufgate - I was feeding a waffle site under DOS (nstar runs 
UNIX).  The only reason for someone wanting news via HST is that they
once were a DOS site and have since converted to Unix (usenet) - or need
to remain compatible with DOS machines (or don't have the $$$).
 
One must admit the HST SYSOP price of $450 verses the PEP internet
discount ($800?) leaves a lot to be desired.  I would really like a 2500
but at $900 (discounted) I can't afford it.  If the T2500 were priced
against with dual standard ($725) I would buy one today (tomorrow?).

> Telebits are not a flavor of 14.4.  They are a flavor af 19.2.
> And V.32 is becoming obsolete already.  If I was looking for the best
> modem to buy to run with unix and to get a newsfeed with, there's
> absolutely no doubt I'd get a Telebit before anything eles (and have).
> V.32 and nothing else can compare.

I agree 100%.  If you are serious about this stuff - the PEP is the
only modem.   

> It seems to me that the hostility towards Telebits are being displayed
> by those used to the DOS world coming into the unix world.  If you
> are going to remain in DOS, get an HST.  If you are going to work with
> unix, get a Telebit - not an HST, not a V.32.  A Telebit.  Period.
> The number of _unix_ sites running HSTs vs. running Telebits are
> negligible.

I was running an HST prior to last Tuesday.  I got tired of slow
feeds keeping the phone busy when I could be feeding 6 to 8 other machines.

I get 1400-1420 cps feeding multi-megabytes of news within the midwest -
800-950 cps feeding Alaska, and 1000 - 1100 feeding Florida.
Those rates are not bad - considering everything is compressed (16 bit)
and the fact that 4 lines are usually busy feeding news at one time..

-- 
...!iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry  -or-  larry@nstar

kim@spock (Kim Letkeman) (04/09/90)

In article <134@dynasys.UUCP>, jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) writes:
| Telebits are not a flavor of 14.4.  They are a flavor af 19.2.
| And V.32 is becoming obsolete already.  If I was looking for the best
| modem to buy to run with unix and to get a newsfeed with, there's
| absolutely no doubt I'd get a Telebit before anything eles (and have).
| V.32 and nothing else can compare.
| 

Could you please explain why V.32 is becoming obsolete? What is going
to replace it?
-- 
Kim Letkeman    uunet!mitel!spock!kim

larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) (04/10/90)

In article <2950@kim>, kim@spock (Kim Letkeman) writes:
> 
> Could you please explain why V.32 is becoming obsolete? What is going
> to replace it?

how about v.42bis?


-- 
...!iuvax!ndmath!nstar!larry  -or-  larry@nstar

tnixon@hsfmsh.UUCP (Toby Nixon) (04/13/90)

In article <511474@nstar.UUCP>, larry@nstar.UUCP (Larry Snyder) 
writes:

- > Could you please explain why V.32 is becoming obsolete? What is going
- > to replace it?
-
- how about v.42bis?

V.42 bis is not a modulation scheme.  It is a data compression 
scheme only, used with V.42 LAPM error control.  V.42 can be used
with any full duplex synchronous modulation scheme, such as V.22,
V.22 bis, V.26 ter, or V.32.  V.32 bis, when it is finalized, will
also support V.42 (and therefore V.42 bis). 

I don't think that V.32 bis is going to obsolete V.32.  The draft
V.32 bis recommendation requires backward compatibility with V.32, 
but adds 7200, 12000, and 14400 bps rates (full duplex, not 
half-duplex or asymmetrical like the HST or DAMQAM).  It will take a 
year or two for V.32 bis modems to come on the market, and they will 
initially be somewhat more expensive than existing V.32 modems, but 
eventually the "modem of choice" will be a V.32 bis/V.42 bis modem.

  	-- Toby

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