gae@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards) (10/16/90)
If I buy a modem in the US, will it work fully on the phone system in the UK? Is it legal? Are the tone-diallings compatible/fully-tolerant? Are even the plugs the same? Has anyone any expreriences in this area (anonymity respected) and are willing to enlighten me? Thanks in advance, Gedge. gae@uk.ac.cf.cm Internet: gae%cm.cf.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: gae@cf-cm.UUCP or ...!uunet!mcsun!ukc!cf-cm!gae
tnixon@hayes.uucp (Toby Nixon) (10/18/90)
In article <1990Oct16.133001.271@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk>, gae@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards) writes: > If I buy a modem in the US, will it work fully on the > phone system in the UK? I have used US modems on the UK phone system. If you're going to be calling numbers in the UK and Europe rather than just calling back to the USA, you'll need to have a modem that has V.21 (for 300bps) and V.22 (for 1200bps) instead of (or in addition to) the Bell standards. Both the US and Europe use V.22bis for 2400 and V.32 for 9600. > Is it legal? Are the tone-diallings compatible/fully-tolerant? DTMF dialing is standardized worldwide (CCITT Recommendation Q.23). I'll let someone in the UK comment on whether or not it is "legal" to connect unapproved equipment to a UK phone circuit. My personal philosophy is that it is easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission! > Are even the plugs the same? No. When I hooked up my modem, I used spade connectors and screwed directly into the back of the wall jack. The modular connectors are quite different. However, I understand that adapters are available at computer and phone stores in the UK. -- Toby P.S. This message should in absolutely no way be understood as official advice from my company. Hayes always advises that you use equipment approved for sale and use in the specific country. -- Toby Nixon, Principal Engineer | Voice: +1-404-449-8791 AT&T: !tnixon Hayes Microcomputer Products Inc.| Fax: +1-404-447-0178 CIS: 70271,404 P.O. Box 105203 | UUCP: uunet!hayes!tnixon MCI: 267-0805 Atlanta, Georgia 30348 USA | Internet: hayes!tnixon@uunet.uu.net
jgh@root.co.uk (Jeremy G Harris) (10/19/90)
In article <2174@hayes.uucp> tnixon@hayes.uucp (Toby Nixon) writes: >In article <1990Oct16.133001.271@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk>, >gae@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards) writes: >> Is it legal? Are the tone-diallings compatible/fully-tolerant? > >DTMF dialing is standardized worldwide (CCITT Recommendation Q.23). Just because it is standardised in a CCITT Recommendation doesn't automatically make it universally available. Pulse dialling is usable anywhere in the UK. Tone isn't. -- Jeremy Harris jgh@root.co.uk +44 71 315 6600
tnixon@hayes.uucp (Toby Nixon) (10/22/90)
In article <2489@root44.co.uk>, jgh@root.co.uk (Jeremy G Harris) writes: >>DTMF dialing is standardized worldwide (CCITT Recommendation Q.23). > > Just because it is standardised in a CCITT Recommendation doesn't > automatically make it universally available. > Pulse dialling is usable anywhere in the UK. Tone isn't. Fine, but that's not what he asked. He DID ask whether DTMF was the same everywhere, and that's the question I answered. Unfortunately, pulse dialing is NOT the same everywhere. You find variations in the make/break ratio, pulse rate, separation between digits, etc. A pulse-dial modem in the US might very well NOT work on a pulse-dial exchange in the UK or elsewhere. But you can be pretty sure a DTMF modem WILL work. -- Toby Nixon, Principal Engineer | Voice: +1-404-449-8791 AT&T: !tnixon Hayes Microcomputer Products Inc.| Fax: +1-404-447-0178 CIS: 70271,404 P.O. Box 105203 | UUCP: uunet!hayes!tnixon MCI: 267-0805 Atlanta, Georgia 30348 USA | Internet: hayes!tnixon@uunet.uu.net
hrs1@cbnewsi.att.com (herman.r.silbiger) (10/23/90)
In article <1990Oct16.133001.271@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk>, gae@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards) writes: > If I buy a modem in the US, will it work fully on the > phone system in the UK? > > Is it legal? Are the tone-diallings compatible/fully-tolerant? > Are even the plugs the same? > > Has anyone any expreriences in this area (anonymity respected) > and are willing to enlighten me? > US modems will work fine in the UK, just be sure that it supports the CCITT protocols as well as the Bell protocols. Must current modems do. Tone dialing is the same allo over the world. The wall line jack requires a different plug, but thr telset jack is usually a RJ-11. However, instead of pins 2&3 being tip and ring, in the UK it is pins 1&4! Herman Silbiger hsilbiger@attmail.com
bruce@ccavax.camb.com (10/25/90)
In article <2263@hayes.uucp>, tnixon@hayes.uucp (Toby Nixon) writes: > > Unfortunately, pulse dialing is NOT the same everywhere. You find > variations in the make/break ratio, pulse rate, separation between > digits, etc. A pulse-dial modem in the US might very well NOT work > on a pulse-dial exchange in the UK or elsewhere. But you can be True, and worse yet is that WE assume that 1 pulse = 1, and 2 = 2, and 10 = 0. But it just isn't so everywhere. Some pulsing patterns even have less pulses for higher numbers. And I seem to recall that not all patterns stop at 10 pulses, but go to 11 or maybe 12. Here in the US we have 10 pps everywhere, and most anything except the steppers can do 20 pps. That even includes some old panel COs. Certainly x-bar and electronic offices can do 20 pps. What I am most annoyed at Toby Nixon's company (and all the rest) is that the modem manufacturers WON'T BOTHER TO SUPPORT 20 pps. Touch-Tone charges are being eliminated in some places, while greedier LECs are raising them. Here in MA, NET&T just about doubled the residential rates for TT this month. The DPU certainly has heard testimony that TT is now cheaper for the LEC to provide, but as someone from the LEC's President's office accidently put it recently "We have a nice working relationship with the DPU" then she said "whoops..." as she realised what she had said. I think the poor folks in NYC pay something over $4 for residential TT. You have to have a PBX trunk in most places to rate that sort of reaming. Dialing at 20 pps is almost twice as fast as at 10 pps (the actual pulsing IS twice as fast, but the interdigit time can't be halved - though generally can be trimmed heavily). For those with 10 or 20 or 50 or even hundreds of modem lines, many used inwards mostly but needing occasional outward services, the SEVERAL DOLLARS for business TT per month really adds up as the years go by, and dialing at 20pps, though annoyingly slower than TT, is quite acceptable. 10 pps is horrible. So why won't the manufacturers give us the option of at least trying 20 pps?
david@cs.uow.edu.au (David E A Wilson) (10/25/90)
tnixon@hayes.uucp (Toby Nixon) writes: >Fine, but that's not what he asked. He DID ask whether DTMF was the >same everywhere, and that's the question I answered. Well, not quite according to the manual for a Bit Blitzer 12E. In it it states: This modem has a default Tone spacing and duration of 70ms which may not meet the requirements of your PABX. It can be modified via S register 11. Note: To Tone Dial a Telecom Australia Public Telephone Exchange you should change the duration and spacing to 80ms (ATS11=80<CR>). I am quite prepared to agree that the tone pair frequencies are standardised but it appears that the minimum duration allowed varies. -- David Wilson Dept Comp Sci, Uni of Wollongong david@cs.uow.edu.au
tjfs@tadtec.uucp (Tim Steele) (10/25/90)
In article <1990Oct22.235230.1401@cbnewsi.att.com> hrs1@cbnewsi.att.com (herman.r.silbiger) writes: > In article <1990Oct16.133001.271@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk>, gae@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards) writes: > > If I buy a modem in the US, will it work fully on the > > phone system in the UK? > > > > Is it legal? Are the tone-diallings compatible/fully-tolerant? > > Are even the plugs the same? > > > > Has anyone any expreriences in this area (anonymity respected) > > and are willing to enlighten me? > > > > US modems will work fine in the UK, just be sure that it supports the CCITT > protocols as well as the Bell protocols. Must current modems do. > > Tone dialing is the same allo over the world. > > The wall line jack requires a different plug, but thr telset jack is usually > a RJ-11. However, instead of pins 2&3 being tip and ring, in the UK it is pins > 1&4! Not quite right, I'm afraid. I posted a detailed explanation some time ago; here's a summary. 1) The line plug is different. In the UK, the plug is 6 pin, although pins 1 & 6 often aren't wired. The line is on pins 2 & 5; pin 3 is used for earth recall (PABX) and pin 4 for anti tinkle (to suppress phone tinkling when pulse dialling). 2) The ringing / busy tones are different, which confuses self-righteous modems (hello Hayes!) which tends to interpret UK ringing tone as busy, for example. 3) It is *a criminal offence* to connect a non-approved device to the UK telephone network. Offenders are liable to a *prison sentence*. Tim -- tjfs@tadtec.uucp ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!tadtec!tjfs Tadpole Technology plc, Science Park, Milton Road, CAMBRIDGE, CB4 4WQ Phone: +44-223-423030 Fax: +44-223-420772 Telex: 817316 TADTEC G
tnixon@hayes.uucp (Toby Nixon) (10/26/90)
In article <34272.2725ee63@ccavax.camb.com>, bruce@ccavax.camb.com writes: > What I am most annoyed at Toby Nixon's company (and all the rest) > is that the modem manufacturers WON'T BOTHER TO SUPPORT 20 pps. Well, we've certainly considered it. However, most countries' national regulations, and EIA standard 496-A in the USA, restrict pulse rates to between 8 and 11 pulses per second. Granted, this is probably due to the need to work on old step-by-step switches, but it IS what the standard says. Nevertheless, I'll bring up the subject again, using your posting as "ammunition". -- Toby -- Toby Nixon, Principal Engineer | Voice +1-404-449-8791 Telex 151243420 Hayes Microcomputer Products Inc. | Fax +1-404-447-0178 CIS 70271,404 P.O. Box 105203 | UUCP uunet!hayes!tnixon AT&T !tnixon Atlanta, Georgia 30348 USA | Internet hayes!tnixon@uunet.uu.net