bert@helix.nih.gov (Bert Tyler) (02/21/91)
Guys, I just gave out some free advice and now I'd like to know if it was worth every penny I was paid for it <sheepish grin>. My wife is part of a brand-new (three-person office) US subsidiary of a British economic forecasting firm. This is the British firm's first subsidiary, and they just realized that they now have to transfer about 5MB's worth of information across the ocean each month (after ZIPping it), and their usual method of file transfer, tossing a few floppies across the room, isn't going to work. I portray myself as a PC "expert", and do so with such confidence that I sometimes even get people to believe me. In this case, I was asked about high-speed modems. At the moment, their current modems are the 2400bps variety, and overseas calls are fairly expensive. They plan on setting up a PC in the home office with some sort of MS-DOS-based BBS setup so that the US group will be able to dial in at will and upload/download files. We're talking about economists used to MS-DOS here - Unix is not an option. Their plan is to purchase two modems here in the states next month when one of the home office staff drops by for a visit and stuffing one into his luggage for the return trip because "everything is cheaper in the States". I recommended V.32 modems because I believe in standards, and suggested that under the circumstances they think real hard about V.32bis modems. In terms of price/performance, I told them I had heard good things about the Intel V.32 modems (mail-order priced at $500-550) and Practical Peripheral V.32 modems (mail-order priced at $450-500) at the low end and the Hayes Ultra (mail-order priced at about $800) at the high end. I gave them mail-order estimates for the USRobotics V.32bis modems (not the Dual-standards) of about $700. 1) Are they going to have any problems (legal and/or practical) with purchasing a modem in the States and plugging it into the phone lines in England? (That part was their idea, so I'm clean.) 2) Are the above modems fairly intelligent picks or dumb ones? Bear in mind that these folks are definitely interested in "plug and play" solutions, they will undoubtedly end up using these same modems for other purposes once they get them, and will have little interest in flipping DIP switches or setting up custom command strings for performance - they just want the silly things to work. Also bear in mind that these guys are not going to get any recommendations involving proprietary protocols (HST, PEP, Hayes V-Series, etc) from me. 3) What didn't I think of that I should have thought of? If you send me replies directly, I'll summarize to the net. If you work for a modem vendor, or sell a particular brand, I don't mind plugs for your side at all if they are labelled as such. Bert Tyler bert@helix.nih.gov
kevin@msa3b.UUCP (Kevin P. Kleinfelter) (02/22/91)
bert@helix.nih.gov (Bert Tyler) writes: [What modems to use between US and UK?] >... Their plan is to purchase two modems >here in the states next month when one of the home office staff drops >by for a visit and stuffing one into his luggage for the return trip >because "everything is cheaper in the States". Big mistake. Very big mistake. Unless their staff is paid VERY low. When that modem brakes, it will take a LONG time to get it fixed. Unless they plan to smuggle it in, they'll have to pay customs. Also, they need a different phone cable and a different power transformer for each side of the pond. We have a site in the U.K. that uses Hayes V-Series, and a site in the U.S. that uses Hayes V-Series. Each works well in its own country. I have NEVER EVER been able to get a 9600 connection to work between countries. (It might be possible, I just never got it to work.) This is not a slam against Hayes, it is probably difficult for most modems. I strongly encourage you to find a modem known to work transatlantic, and with an office in the US and UK. >...Also bear in >mind that these guys are not going to get any recommendations involving >proprietary protocols (HST, PEP, Hayes V-Series, etc) from me. Nice philosophy. I agree in principle. Transatlantic is expensive. Use the fastest, most reliable modem you can find. -- Kevin Kleinfelter @ Dun and Bradstreet Software, Inc (404) 239-2347 {emory,gatech}!nanovx!msa3b!kevin Look closely at the return address. It is nanovx and NOT nanovAx.
tnixon@hayes.uucp (02/22/91)
In article <997@nih-csl.nih.gov>, bert@helix.nih.gov (Bert Tyler) writes: > a British economic forecasting firm. This is the British firm's > first subsidiary, and they just realized that they now have to transfer > about 5MB's worth of information across the ocean each month (after > ZIPping it), and their usual method of file transfer, tossing a few > floppies across the room, isn't going to work. To transmit 5Mb of ZIPped data, even on a V.32bis modem (1700cps throughput on clean lines), will take about 49 minutes; 75 minutes on a V.32 modem. The rates are roughly as follows (this is based on Atlanta to London on AT&T): First Add'l Cost Cost Time Minute Minutes V.32 V.32bis 7a-1p 1.34 .94 $70.90 $46.46 Plus Tax 1p-6p 1.15 .71 $53.69 $35.23 Plus Tax 6p-7a .98 .50 $37.98 $24.98 Plus Tax and remember that it costs more if that call is placed FROM the UK TO the USA, because of less competition. A Federal Express overnight package from the USA to London costs $25 if you walk in off the street, less if you have a negotiated rate; some other services (DHL, Airborne, Postal Service) may charge even less. You must also consider that it is very unlikely that a V.32bis modem will actually operate at 14,400bps through the 40 kilobit ADPCM digitial circuit multiplying equipment used for international calls; you'd be more likely to get 12,000, or even 9600. Thus, the costs associated with V.32 are a more realistic estimate of the actual phone charges. Anyway, my first point is that if you're transferring this much data, especially if it is only once per month and not extremely time critical, that you may want to consider just sending the disks in the mail or by air express rather than buying modems. And I work for a modem manufacturer! Sheesh... > here - Unix is not an option. Their plan is to purchase two modems > here in the states next month when one of the home office staff drops > by for a visit and stuffing one into his luggage for the return trip > because "everything is cheaper in the States". That may be so, but they must also remember that US modems don't have UK power or phone connectors, don't have 240v supplies, and aren't BABT approved for use on the UK phone system. But if they're willing to put up with the need to buy adapters and transformers and take the risk of getting nabbed for using unapproved equipment (penalty: disconnection of phone service)... > I recommended V.32 modems because I believe in standards, and suggested > that under the circumstances they think real hard about V.32bis modems. > In terms of price/performance, I told them I had heard good things about > the Intel V.32 modems (mail-order priced at $500-550) and Practical > Peripheral V.32 modems (mail-order priced at $450-500) at the low end > and the Hayes Ultra (mail-order priced at about $800) at the high end. > I gave them mail-order estimates for the USRobotics V.32bis modems > (not the Dual-standards) of about $700. All of these modems include error control, which you would certainly want on an international connection. I can't say whether the Intel or PPI modems will work well on transatlantic calls. I use my Ultra 96 at least once a week for a call to Geneva, Switzerland, to check my email at CCITT headquarters, and it seems to connect reliably and give good throughput (not many retransmission). But I have no idea what kind of modem they're using on their end. > 3) What didn't I think of that I should have thought of? Using the mail. -- Toby Nixon, Principal Engineer | Voice +1-404-840-9200 Telex 151243420 Hayes Microcomputer Products Inc. | Fax +1-404-447-0178 CIS 70271,404 P.O. Box 105203 | UUCP uunet!hayes!tnixon AT&T !tnixon Atlanta, Georgia 30348 USA | Internet hayes!tnixon@uunet.uu.net
jseymour@medar.com (James Seymour) (02/25/91)
In article <1543@msa3b.UUCP> kevin@msa3b.UUCP (Kevin P. Kleinfelter) writes: >bert@helix.nih.gov (Bert Tyler) writes: > >[What modems to use between US and UK?] > [stuff deleted...] > >>...Also bear in >>mind that these guys are not going to get any recommendations involving >>proprietary protocols (HST, PEP, Hayes V-Series, etc) from me. > >Nice philosophy. I agree in principle. Transatlantic is expensive. >Use the fastest, most reliable modem you can find. >-- Playing the role of consultant, you best serve your client by recommending the *best* solution for *their* needs, rather than what you perceive to be the best for your own. Check out what people have been experiencing here on the net, and the general consensus seems to be that, at the present time, PEP seems to be the most robust for overseas connections. This may change in the future, but it is the case *now*. I also am a strong believer in standards, multiple sourcing, etc., and am reluctant to recommend anything but, however sometimes "pragmatic" serves better than "philosophy". If anyone I work with ever saw this follow-up, they would be hard put to believe I authored it. Indeed, in previous responses to similar "what to buy" questions on the net I have recommended *against* the propriatary products, but those were not for overseas use. I have no personal experience with PEP, so take this for what it's worth :-). >Kevin Kleinfelter @ Dun and Bradstreet Software, Inc (404) 239-2347 >{emory,gatech}!nanovx!msa3b!kevin > >Look closely at the return address. It is nanovx and NOT nanovAx. -- Jim Seymour | Medar, Inc. ...!uunet!medar!jseymour | 38700 Grand River Ave. jseymour@medar.com | Farmington Hills, MI. 48331 CIS: 72730,1166 GEnie: jseymour | FAX: (313)477-8897
emv@ox.com (Ed Vielmetti) (03/16/91)
In article <1991Feb27.030744.39586@camb.com> bruce@camb.com (Barton F. Bruce) writes:
Fed-X may have a better service if your traffic is suitable.
FED-X has a global x.25 net that has bandwidth for rent IF your
usage fits their profile. It is what runs their package service.
They won't give you a connection slower than 56kb, but for $300/mo
they include the port in their net, AND the LEC's DDS ckt to you!
They have a POP in every garage - many many more than AT&T.
Do you have a contact point for these folks (by voice or e-mail) ?
Any idea on the feasibility of running IP over X.25 using this
service?
Sounds like a very cool possibility....
--
Msen Edward Vielmetti
/|--- moderator, comp.archives
emv@msen.com