rmarks@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM (richard marks) (10/30/87)
Is anyone familiar with a firm called "Human Design Terminals" or their products - the HDS terminal line? Please give me an opinion of their products. Thank you, Richard Marks rmarks@PRC.unisys.COM
mroz@hudson.steinmetz (peter a mroz) (10/31/87)
In article <7@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM> rmarks@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM (richard marks) writes: >Is anyone familiar with a firm called "Human Design Terminals" >or their products - the HDS terminal line? Please give me an >opinion of their products. Two years ago we (at GE CRD) bought about 20 HDS terminals. We needed VT100/VT220/Tektronix 4010/4014 functionality which the HDS-xx (I can't remember the model number) seemed to provide. However, we had severe reliability problems and ended up shipping them all back to the manufacturer. We decided to buy GraphOn GO-220's and GO-230's. I've had my GO-230 for a year now with zero problems. I looked into terminals for VT100/Tektronix capabilities a little while ago, as GE CRD wanted to standardize what equipment was bought. My recommendations were for the Tektronix 4205, 4207 in the "high" price range, and the GraphOn GO-230 and GO-250 in the "low" price range. The address for GraphOn is GraphOn Corp Tower One, Fifth Floor 1901 South Basco9m Ave. Cambell, CA 95008 800-472-7466 408-371-8500 Usual disclaimers apply . . . . . Peter Mroz General Electric | ARPA: mroz@ge-crd.arpa Corporate Research and Development | UUCP: mroz@moose.steinmetz.ge.com PO Box 8, 37-2081 | clever saying stuck in here Schenectady, NY 12301 | 518-387-6021
rwa@auvax.UUCP (Ross Alexander) (11/02/87)
In article <7739@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, mroz@hudson.steinmetz (peter a mroz) writes: > Two years ago we (at GE CRD) bought about 20 HDS terminals. ... > However, we had severe reliability problems and ended up shipping them all > back to the manufacturer. Well, maybe you got a bad batch; the HDS on my desk at home is as solid as a brick, and is my second-favourite terminal, surpassed only by the incomparable Ann Arbor Ambassador on my desk at work. Ross Alexander @ Athabasca University ...!ihnp4!alberta!auvax!rwa
tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Tim Northrup) (11/03/87)
in article <7739@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, mroz@hudson.steinmetz says: +-- | In article <7@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM> rmarks@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM | (richard marks) writes: |>Is anyone familiar with a firm called "Human Design Terminals" |>or their products - the HDS terminal line? Please give me an |>opinion of their products. | | Two years ago we (at GE CRD) bought about 20 HDS terminals. We needed | VT100/VT220/Tektronix 4010/4014 functionality which the HDS-xx (I | can't remember the model number) seemed to provide. However, we had | severe reliability problems and ended up shipping them all back to the | manufacturer. We decided to buy GraphOn GO-220's and GO-230's. I've had | my GO-230 for a year now with zero problems. +-- We're in the same boat as GE was -- about a year ago we purchased 8 HDS-2200 (VT-220 compatible), and 1 HDS-2200GX (VT-220/Tek 4014). Almost all of them have been back to the shop for at least a new power supply. Several have had to have either the processor board or video board also replaced. Functionally and ergonomically they are very good -- reliable they are not! -- tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com uunet!steinmetz!brspyr1!tim ============================================ Tim "The Enchanter" Northrup
paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (11/03/87)
The University of Illinois bought two HDS Concept AVTs 4 years ago that
I would be extremely reluctant to give up. The keyboard layout is just
about optimal (wide shift, control, tab, and return keys where you
expect them) with the more useless keys like shift-lock moved off the
main area entirely. The display is crisp, reliability has been excellent.
Each terminal had one capacitor replaced with parts that HDS volunteered
when they learned of the problem from other customers.
The eight pages of screen memory are a big plus - it eliminates a lot
of repeated commands or remembering to pipe output through more/less.
Another feature I've grown to like a lot is the 2nd tty port. I have port
1 connected to my workstation, port 2 goes to a Sytek mux that reaches
machines not on the campus tcp/ip network.
I would love to try one of their new terminals.
Paul Pomes
UUCP: {ihnp4,uunet}!uiucuxc!paul Phone: +1 217 333 6262
Internet: paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu BITNET: paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu
MILNET: paul@uiucuxc.arpa CSNET: paul%uxc@uiuc.csnet
US Mail: UofIllinois, CSO, MC-256, 1304 W Springfield Ave, Urbana, IL 61801mkhaw@teknowledge-vaxc.ARPA (Mike Khaw) (11/03/87)
tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Tim Northrup) says:
> Functionally and ergonomically they are very good -- reliable they are not!
I have to agree. We have a large number of HDS200 terminals and their
older siblings, the Concept AVT and Concept-108 terminals. Out of a
population of 200-ish of these terminals, the average failure rate is
something like 1 a week. The HDS repair guy comes here every time we have
a batch of 6 or more broken terminals, and he's here every 4-6 weeks,
sometimes more often.
Mike Khaw
--
internet: mkhaw@teknowledge-vaxc.arpa
usenet: {uunet|sun|ucbvax|decwrl|uw-beaver}!mkhaw%teknowledge-vaxc.arpa
USnail: Teknowledge Inc, 1850 Embarcadero Rd, POB 10119, Palo Alto, CA 94303sjm0@bunny.UUCP (Stu Mcgraw) (11/03/87)
In article <7@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM>, rmarks@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM (richard marks) writes: > Is anyone familiar with a firm called "Human Design Terminals" > or their products - the HDS terminal line? Please give me an > opinion of their products. We bought about 20 HDS terminals a couple of years ago. They had a lot of features for the money but... In the last 10 months we've had to repair 17 of them! Each repair (by HDS) was at the board level and cost between $150 and $300. We had only a slightly lower failure rate last year. We are currently shopping for 20 new terminals.... -- Stu -- Stuart McGraw (617)466-2525 GTE Laboratories {hsuc6,harvard}!bunny!sjm0 40 Sylvan Road sjm0%gte-labs.csnet@csnet-relay Waltham MA 02254
page@ulowell.cs.ulowell.edu (Bob Page) (11/04/87)
We're in agreement here, too ... I bought a dozen terminals over a
year ago. All were shipped for 240v. Once we fixed that, we had
constant reliability problems ... mostly power supply, but keyboard
and other problems as well.
They are great terminals (I'm typing on one now); much preferred to
the DEC VT220, but the added cost of having spares and a service
contract on the terminals make them too costly to own.
I am shopping for new terminals now; HDS is not on the list.
..Bob
--
Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet} eric@spock.UUCP (Eric Volpe) (11/05/87)
In article <7739@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> mroz@hudson.UUCP (peter a mroz) writes: >In article <7@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM> rmarks@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM >(richard marks) writes: >>Is anyone familiar with a firm called "Human Design Terminals" [.......] >severe reliability problems and ended up shipping them all back to the >manufacturer. We decided to buy GraphOn GO-220's and GO-230's. I've had >my GO-230 for a year now with zero problems. > Agreed... We have four HDS terminals here. I like the style, they work well and are quite compatible with everything they claim to be However, as of today, each of them has been shipped back t the manufacturer *at least* twice, one of them four times. We are about to run out on the warranty and will probably ditch the terminals. They even charge us something like $25 for new boxes every time we ship them back.
shan@mcf.UUCP (Sharan Kalwani) (11/06/87)
In article <179200002@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu> paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu.UUCP writes: > >The University of Illinois bought two HDS Concept AVTs 4 years ago that >I would be extremely reluctant to give up. The keyboard layout is just [stuff deleted] I agree with Paul their earlier terminals. We now have a G2200X (the Tek 4014/vt220/vt100). Lucky for us,around the time we placed our orders, I was informed they had a bad batch and so the shipment was delayed. When we finally got ours it hasn't failed since and we are quite happy with it. Our decision to buy one was helped when their rep left us with a sample terminal and we got the users to use it for over a month banging away at it with full force with no problems whatsoever. You might take that route to really satisfy yourself that they are indeed much more reliable now. -- Sharan Kalwani Dept. of Physiology/Biophysics Michigan Cancer Foundation 110 East Warren Avenue,Detroit,Michigan 48201 ...!{ihnp4!mibte, philabs!fmsrl7}!mcf!shan OR shan@mcf.UUCP shan%mcf.uucp@psuvax1.{psu.edu,BITNET} OR +1 313 833 0710 x411
harrison@utfyzx.UUCP (11/07/87)
We have 10 HDS terminals, ranging from an ancient c108 which
still works to a Model 200G on my desk. Reliability is good,
price/performance excellent, ergonomics exceptional.
You won't believe how nice 4-8 pages of memory can be until
you try it. In our terminfo, when you go into 'vi', it
uses the top 24 lines: the effect is that when you exit,
the screen you had when you invoked 'vi' is restored, including
the line where you said:
$ vi foo
We're about to buy 8 more, so that's my opinion.
--
David Harrison, Dept. of Physics, Univ. of Toronto
{ihnp4,utzoo}!utgpu!utfyzx!harrisonkevin@ttidca.TTI.COM (Kevin Carothers) (11/07/87)
>In <7739@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, mroz@hudson.steinmetz (peter a mroz) writes: >> Two years ago we (at GE CRD) bought about 20 HDS terminals. ... >> However, we had severe reliability problems and ended up shipping them all >> back to the manufacturer. >Well, maybe you got a bad batch; the HDS on my desk at home is as solid as a >brick, and is my second-favourite terminal, surpassed only by the incomparable >Ann Arbor Ambassador on my desk at work. Bad batch my butt. HDS terminals were the bane of my existence for over a year until all of them (approx. 15) just gave up the ghost. You name it, it broke. There's nothing like ten (practically brand-new) terminals all-at-once starting to lose sync (the infamous star-trek mode display), and emitting that high-pitch squeal that would have been a standard torture during the Spanish Inquisition. Oh yes, and how could I forget the bases coming off of the display? I guess it's the old addage: "State of the art engineering? State of the art problems..." Gimme a vt100 on my desk anytime. Whoops! there goes my vertical hold Whoops! there goes my vertical hold Whoops! there goes my vertical hold Whoops! there goes my vertical hold
da@bvax.UUCP (Dave Sellers) (11/09/87)
In article <7739@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, mroz@hudson.steinmetz (peter a mroz) writes: > In article <7@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM> rmarks@bbking.PRC.Unisys.COM > (richard marks) writes: > >Is anyone familiar with a firm called "Human Design Terminals" > >or their products - the HDS terminal line? Please give me an > >opinion of their products. > > Two years ago we (at GE CRD) bought about 20 HDS terminals. We needed > VT100/VT220/Tektronix 4010/4014 functionality which the HDS-xx (I > can't remember the model number) seemed to provide. However, we had > severe reliability problems and ended up shipping them all back to the > manufacturer. We have about 800 HDS terminals (HDS200) and have also have reliability problems with the fly-back unit burning up (yes smoke). The distributer here has supplied new fly-back units and the company has now brought out the HDS2000 unit that has new "guts" that is a fix to the reliability problem. I still haven't found (around here) a true dual port terminal that can support that number of options these VDU's can. I won't list them here but I'm a believer. Dave Sellers
da@bvax.UUCP (Dave Sellers) (11/13/87)
There has been a lot of talk re the reliability of the HDS terminals on the net over the last week. I was the person here at Bell Canada that recommended that we purchase HDS terminals, and, I think we now have about 800 of them and plan to purchase hundreds more. Yes there has been problems with them. The problems were with the fly-back unit that burned up after about 9 months of continous service. The supplier tells me the trouble was with the manufacturing of these units in Japan. I'm no expert, but they said it is difficult to make these units for the HDS because of the technique that is required to get the very large display on the terminal. It puts a heavier load on the fly-back or something and if the manufacturing proccess is not done just right and the materials used are not the best, they break down. For those who don't have an HDS, some of the best features of the HDS are: - the large 15" display that when put in 132 column mode looks close to the standard character size of a VT100 (and the screen is not cleared when you toggle back and forth). - two communications ports and a printer port are available. - 8 pages of memory, up to 8 windows, 4 view ports. - 55 (110 shifted/unshifted) user-defined non-volatile soft keys that can be down loaded if required. - multiple character sets. and simultaneous multiple computer communications. (doesn't flow-control off the other system.) Just to mention a few. The users just love them! Back to reliability. The HDS people said that they have now resolved the fly-back problem by changing the commpany doing the manufacturing and re-engineering the unit. They have made these changes and now call the terminal the HDS2000. Lets hope it is fixed (they haven't lied before). In summary, I haven't found a terminal that can do what these can at the same $$$$ value. I think others on the net will support this. Dave Sellers Dave's Data Centre (DDC) "No job is too tough if you pay us enough"
kscott@ucsfcgl.UUCP (11/18/87)
Count me as another vote in favor of their _o_l_d_ terminals. I have a concept108 that has suffered much abuse and refuses to quit working. My only problem is that we can not make it go into graphics mode for analyzing nmr spectra the same way the concept avt-4p-s (that is the termcap) are able to go and present spectra. I am not familiar with the nuts and bolts of getting these terminals to do graphics, but I know this terminal has the capability. Can anyone point me in theright direction for finding out how to put nmr spectra on my c108? -- Keep cool but don't freeze - Hellman's Mayonnaise Jar
loverso@encore.UUCP (John LoVerso) (11/18/87)
In article <316@bvax.UUCP> da@bvax.UUCP (Dave Sellers) writes: > For those who don't have an HDS, some of the best features of the HDS are: > [lots of good features] > > In summary, I haven't found a terminal that can do what these can at the > same $$$$ value. I think others on the net will support this. I agree that HDS makes terminals with great features and at a pretty low cost. But, back at my previous job, I didn't buy them. Not because of reliability problems, *but* because they could barely do 9600 baud without flow control! 19200 was effectively flow-controlled back down to an effect `11000 baud'. Can anyone with one of HDS's recent terminals tell me this is no longer a problem? John Robert LoVerso, Encore Computer Corp encore!loverso, loverso@multimax.arpa
mkhaw@teknowledge-vaxc.ARPA (Mike Khaw) (11/18/87)
> I agree that HDS makes terminals with great features and at a pretty low > cost. But, back at my previous job, I didn't buy them. Not because of > reliability problems, *but* because they could barely do 9600 baud without > flow control! 19200 was effectively flow-controlled back down to an > effect `11000 baud'. Can anyone with one of HDS's recent terminals > tell me this is no longer a problem? I timed our HDS terminals by doing something like (first set no flow control in the terminal's setup mode) csh% set time csh% cat /etc/termcap on an unloaded system and then dividing the size of /etc/termcap by the elapsed clock time. The HDS 200 came out to something like 480 chars/sec (4800 bps) or somewhat faster, but definitely not able to do 9600 bps. The newer HDS 2000 came out to roughly 960 chars/sec or better, but unable to do 19200 bps. There were some (non-HDS) terminals we looked at that could really do 19200 bps ... I only wish our tty-lines and tcp/ip terminal servers could handle 38400 bps, so I could have tried them at that speed! Mike Khaw -- internet: mkhaw@teknowledge-vaxc.arpa usenet: {uunet|sun|ucbvax|decwrl|uw-beaver}!mkhaw%teknowledge-vaxc.arpa USnail: Teknowledge Inc, 1850 Embarcadero Rd, POB 10119, Palo Alto, CA 94303
dji@sbcs (David J Iannucci) (11/19/87)
Well, just felt like adding my $0.02. When I was an undergrad at St. Joe's
in Philly (sjuvax.uucp), we used (and they still use) HDS Concept terminals.
I thought the reliability factor was pretty good, especially considering
that they were pounded upon primarily by undergrad business majors all day
long. Many of the 4-6 year old c108's are still giving their all today, and
the Concept APL that I bought used from the university 2 years ago that had
to have been 5-6 years old *then* is still running strong on my desk.
--
Dave "if I could walk that way..." Iannucci SUNY at Stony Brook
UUCP: {allegra, philabs, pyramid, research}!sbcs!dji CSnet: dji@suny-sb.edu
ARPA-Internet: dji%suny-sb@relay.cs.net ICBM: 40 55' N 73 08' Wbrighton@pixar.uucp (Bill Carson) (05/25/88)
Does anyone out there have a termcap for the new hds3200? Failing that,
how about a bonafide vt220 termcap? I'm using a standard vt100 termcap
right now and there are occasional problems while using vi.
Also, there seems to be no way to make <prev screen> and <next screen>
do the right thing: flip through the pages of screen memory. Any hints?
Perhaps a mailing list of HDS users could be started?
Thanks much, in advance. I'll summarize if necessary.
--
Bill Carson ...!{ucbvax,sun}!pixar!brightonpaul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (05/27/88)
h1|hds3200|HDS3200 VT220 emulation with enhancements:\
:ae=^O:\
:al=\E[L:\
:as=^N:\
:bs:\
:cd=\E[J:\
:ce=\E[K:\
:cl=\E[H\E[J:\
:cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:\
:co#80:\
:cs:\
:dc=\E[P:\
:dl=\E[M:\
:do=\E[B:\
:ds=\E[0;0-y\E[9;0;1-z\E[H\E[J\E[1;0-y:\
:ei=\E[4l:\
:eo:\
:fs=\E[0m\E[1;0-y:\
:ho=\E[H:\
:hs:\
:im=\E[4h:\
:is=\E[=35h\E[?73h\E[?7h\E[2l\E[=34l\E[?8h\E[=32l\E[?3l\E[1;96-w\E[?25h\E(B\E)0\E[m\E[96;1H\E[J:\
:i2=\E[25;2;2-r\E[0;0-y\E[9;0;1-z\E[H\E[J\E[1;0-y:\
:kb=^H:\
:kd=\E[B:\
:kl=\E[D:\
:kr=\E[C:\
:ku=\E[A:\
:li#24:\
:mi:\
:ms:\
:nd=\E[C:\
:nm=\E[m:\
:pt:\
:re=\E[m:\
:rl=\E[7;1m:\
:ru=\E[1;4m:\
:rv=\E[4;7m:\
:rw=\E[1;4;7m:\
:se=\E[27m:\
:so=\E[7m:\
:ti=\E[1-z\E[1;24-w\E[?25h:\
:te=\E[1;96-w\E[96;1H\E[J:\
:ts=\E[0;0-y\E[9;0;1-z\E[H\E[J\E[7m:\
:ue=\E[24m:\
:uf=^I:\
:ul:\
:up=\E[A:\
:us=\E[4m:\
:xo:
h2|hds3200-w|HDS3200 in 132 column mode:\
:is=\E[=32l\E[?3h\E[1;96-w\E(B\E)0\E[=0g\E[?25h:\
:co#132:\
:ti=\E[?3h\E[1;24-w:\
:te=\E[H\E[J:\
:tc=hds3200:
h3|hds3200-l|HDS3200 in 50 line mode:\
:is=\E[=32h\E[?3l\E[1;96-w\E(B\E)0\E[=0g\E[?25h:\
:ti=\E[=32h\E[1;48-w:\
:te=\E[H\E[J:\
:li#48:\
:tc=hds3200:
h4|hds3200-lw|HDS3200 in 50 line, 132 column mode:\
:is=\E[=32h\E[?3h\E[1;96-w\E(B\E)0\E[=0g\E[?25h:\
:ti=\E[=32h\E[?3h\E[1;48-w:\
:te=\E[H\E[J:\
:co#132:\
:li#48:\
:tc=hds3200:
Paul Pomes, CSO Postmaster
UUCP: {ihnp4,uunet}!uiucuxc!paul
Internet, BITNET, CSNET: paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu
US Mail: UofIllinois, CSO, 1304 W Springfield Ave, Urbana, IL 61801