ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Clark) (04/18/91)
Does anyone know why DEC on VT200 and 300 terminals mapped the ESC key to CTRL-3 and CTRL-3 to the ESC key? I use the EMACS editor, which is a very popular editor for mainframe computers, and it requires the use of the ESC key. It's rather annoying to have to hit CTRL-3 for the ESC key, particularly when there's no logical reason why it should be that way. I could map the ESC key back to itself but I use other terminals such as vt100 and AMIGAS, PC'S, and MACINTOSHES and it would be a major pain to have to map or de-map the key depending on what term I'm using everytime I log on. What's the deal here? Bob Clark SUNY at Albany
davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu ("John E. Davis") (04/18/91)
In article <9104172248.AA10611@cwns9.INS.CWRU.Edu> ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Clark) writes:
[...]
I could map the ESC key back to itself but I use other
terminals such as vt100 and AMIGAS, PC'S, and
MACINTOSHES and it would be a major pain to have to map
or de-map the key depending on what term I'm using
everytime I log on. What's the deal here?
Just use ^[ for escape-- it always works on any terminal by definition.
--
John
bitnet: davis@ohstpy
internet: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edugwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (04/19/91)
In article <9104172248.AA10611@cwns9.INS.CWRU.Edu> ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes: > What's the deal here? The deal is that when the first VT2xx models were designed, DEC opted to follow some European "ergonomic keyboard standard". As a result, the VT220 keyboard is without doubt one of the worst I have ever encountered. The VT100 was one of the best. By the way, DEC seems to have established over a half dozen "DEC keyboard standards" during the days when I was still paying any attention to what DEC was doing.
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (04/19/91)
In article <DAVIS.91Apr17212532@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu> davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (John E. Davis) writes: >Just use ^[ for escape-- it always works on any terminal by definition. While that probably works on most ASCII terminals, it is not that way "by definition", but rather a side effect of the implementation of the control-key function on such terminals.
pha21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Braham Levy) (04/19/91)
In article <9104172248.AA10611@cwns9.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Clark) writes: > > > Does anyone know why DEC on VT200 and 300 terminals > mapped the ESC key to CTRL-3 and CTRL-3 to the ESC key? am i mistaken or doesn't the F11 key generate ESC ??? braham email: brahamlevy@uk.ac.keele (or similar) mail-mail : phone +44-782-621111x3943 j braham levy UDSP Lab, Electrical Engineering Group, Dept. of Physics, University of Keele, Keele, Staffs, UK.
phys169@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (04/22/91)
In article <1095@keele.keele.ac.uk>, pha21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Braham Levy) writes: > In article <9104172248.AA10611@cwns9.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Clark) writes: >> >> >> Does anyone know why DEC on VT200 and 300 terminals >> mapped the ESC key to CTRL-3 and CTRL-3 to the ESC key? > > am i mistaken or doesn't the F11 key generate ESC ??? > Sometimes. On terminals like the Wyse 99 (with a VT-style keyboard) it is labelled as ESC as well as F11, and produces an Escape when in VT100 mode. In VT200 mode you have to program the key to generate ^[ instead of the ^[ [ 23 ~ it produces by default (send ^[ P 1 ; 0 | 4 3 / 1 B ^[ \ to redefine F11 correctly). Note that ^[ means Control-[, and spaces are added for clarity here but shouldn't be sent to the terminal. I haven't got a VT200 handy to try it on, but (barring typos) it should work okay. The stupidity of the VT200 keyboard design is equalled only by the use of Ctrl-S in EMACS for searching. If you run DEC-type keyboards with EMACS, check that you've got the appropriate lisp tailorings to take adavantage of it, for example, you should be getting the HELP and FIND keys to work as expected. Hope this helps, Mark Aitchison, Physics, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.
frank@urz.unibas.ch (04/22/91)
In article <9104172248.AA10611@cwns9.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Clark) writes: > > > Does anyone know why DEC on VT200 and 300 terminals > mapped the ESC key to CTRL-3 and CTRL-3 to the ESC key? > I use the EMACS editor, which is a very popular editor > for mainframe computers, and it requires the use of the > ESC key. It's rather annoying to have to hit CTRL-3 for > the ESC key, particularly when there's no logical reason > why it should be that way. > I could map the ESC key back to itself but I use other > terminals such as vt100 and AMIGAS, PC'S, and MACINTOSHES > and it would be a major pain to have to map or de-map > the key depending on what term I'm using everytime I > log on. > What's the deal here? > > > > Bob Clark > SUNY at Albany As others have noted: ^[ is also ESC on DEC keyboards. But much the same pain as ^3. On the vt3xx series you can change the keyboard layout a little putting the ESC key back to a position more common. On US-keyboards it's the ~, key. It can be remapped to ESC. The ~ can be moved to another key, the <>; and those back to the positions above the , and . keys. Great isn't it? .____________________________________________________________________________. | | | _____ __ _____ Robert Frank | | | / | Institut fuer Informatik | | | | | University of Basel, Switzerland | | | -+- | | | | | | Mittlere Strasse 142 | | __|__ | __|__ CH-4056 Basel | | | | frank@urz.unibas.ch tel. + (061) 321 99 67 fax + (061) 321 99 15 | |____________________________________________________________________________|
bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) (04/23/91)
In article <15892@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: >In article <DAVIS.91Apr17212532@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu> davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (John E. Davis) writes: >>Just use ^[ for escape-- it always works on any terminal by definition. >While that probably works on most ASCII terminals, it is not that way >"by definition", but rather a side effect of the implementation of the >control-key function on such terminals. Why do you say that it is not that way by definition. I understood the "definition" is that the Control key is just to strips the 3 most significant bits, therefore control [ will always give ESC. I have seen some crude terminal emulators that subtract from the ascii value instead of masking but that gives differnent values for control chars. eg: ctl A and ctl a map differently that way. But I HAVE seen that done. -- Bill Vermillion - UUCP: uunet!tarpit!bilver!bill : bill@bilver.UUCP
brnstnd@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein) (04/23/91)
In article <1991Apr22.155857.500@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> phys169@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes: > The stupidity of the VT200 keyboard design is equalled only by the use of > Ctrl-S in EMACS for searching. Failing to figure out exactly what keys users will want isn't stupid; it's just a mistake. What's stupid is a convention that codes keystrokes as ambiguous byte streams. When the receiving end has to pay attention to timing to figure out whether you typed esc-[-A or esc [ A, the keyboard model is simply flawed, and this is reflected by unreliable software and user complaints. In a better world, no valid keystroke would produce a prefix of what another valid keystroke produces. ---Dan
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (04/25/91)
In article <1991Apr23.054148.3339@bilver.uucp> bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes: >Why do you say that it is not that way by definition. I understood the >"definition" is that the Control key is just to strips the 3 most significant >bits, therefore control [ will always give ESC. No, there is no such definition for the function of the "control" modifier key on a keyboard. While virtually all ASCII terminal keyboards apply the control key as you describe for the ALPHABETIC characters, there is considerable variation in the control+special_character mappings use to produce other ASCII codes, such as NUL, DEL, FS, GS, and perhaps ESC. Some terminals function as you described and others map these differently.
jerrells@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Joby Jerrells) (04/26/91)
In article <1095@keele.keele.ac.uk> pha21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Braham Levy) writes: >In article <9104172248.AA10611@cwns9.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Clark) writes: >> >> >> Does anyone know why DEC on VT200 and 300 terminals >> mapped the ESC key to CTRL-3 and CTRL-3 to the ESC key? > >am i mistaken or doesn't the F11 key generate ESC ??? > >braham > >email: brahamlevy@uk.ac.keele (or similar) > >mail-mail : phone +44-782-621111x3943 >j braham levy >UDSP Lab, >Electrical Engineering Group, >Dept. of Physics, >University of Keele, >Keele, Staffs, >UK. To: ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Subject: Re: ESC key on VT200 and VT300 terminals. Newsgroups: comp.terminals In-Reply-To: <9104172248.AA10611@cwns9.INS.CWRU.Edu> Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington In article <9104172248.AA10611@cwns9.INS.CWRU.Edu> you write: > > Does anyone know why DEC on VT200 and 300 terminals >mapped the ESC key to CTRL-3 and CTRL-3 to the ESC key? > I use the EMACS editor, which is a very popular editor >for mainframe computers, and it requires the use of the >ESC key. It's rather annoying to have to hit CTRL-3 for >the ESC key, particularly when there's no logical reason >why it should be that way. > What's the deal here? > > Bob Clark > SUNY at Albany On the DEC vt200 series of terminals the escape key is mapped to F11. These terminals have a set-up mode (The F3 key) that will allow you to emulate a vt100 keyboard. Then, whenever you need to use the escape key in emacs, just press the F11 key as if it were the escape key. I'm not positive about the vt300 series, I'd have to check, but my guess is that they work in a similar manner. One other hint, make sure that you define vt100 for emacs. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Joby Jerrells | ----> My opinion -Indiana University- | <---- Not their's -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Joby Jerrells | ----> My opinion -Indiana University- | <---- Not their's --------------------------------------------------------------------
leilabd@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Leila Burrell-Davis) (04/30/91)
jerrells@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Joby Jerrells) writes: > On the DEC vt200 series of terminals the escape key is mapped to F11. > These terminals have a set-up mode (The F3 key) that will allow you to > emulate a vt100 keyboard. Then, whenever you need to use the escape > key in emacs, just press the F11 key as if it were the escape key. I'm > not positive about the vt300 series, I'd have to check, but my guess is > that they work in a similar manner. I'm quoting from the DEC publication 'Installing and Using the VT320 Video Terminal'. F11 is a function key often defined by application software. In VT100 and VT52 modes, F11 sends an escape (ESC) character. However, from the Keyboard setup screen, it is possible to change the characters that a number of keys send. One of these is the `~ key (above the TAB and to the left of 1), which can be set to send an escape. It is sensible if you do this also to set the <> key to send ~` and the ,, and .. keys to send ,< and .> This is what I do when I use a vt320. Leila -- Leila Burrell-Davis, Computing Service, University of Sussex, Brighton, UK Tel: +44 273 678390 Fax: +44 273 678470 Email: leilabd@syma.sussex.ac.uk (JANET: leilabd@uk.ac.sussex.syma)