daveb@rtech.UUCP (05/26/87)
Registering our domain is the right and sensible thing to do.
Unfortunately, the people holding purse strings do not seem to
understand:
"What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150?"
I would appreciate some arguments I can send back to the money changers.
Thanks,
-dB
--
"I'm just having a bad day" -- Babe, _Crimes of the Heart_
{amdahl, cbosgd, mtxinu, ptsfa, sun}!rtech!daveb daveb@rtech.uucpgnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (05/29/87)
> Registering our domain is the right and sensible thing to do. > Unfortunately, the people holding purse strings do not seem to > understand: > > "What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150?" > > I would appreciate some arguments I can send back to the money changers. I have the same question. Let me ask another one: "What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150 PER YEAR?" It seems like a one-time database update to me. If somebody wants to change their entry, they can always pay to submit the change, just like with the phone company. But why pay every year for no service? Does Stargate Information Systems have an accountant? Do they make regular reports of where the money is going, like Usenix does? Can we see such a report? -- Copyright 1987 John Gilmore; you may redistribute only if your recipients may. (This is an effort to bend Stargate to work with Usenet, not against it.) {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4,ucbvax}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@ingres.berkeley.edu
karl@grebyn.COM (Karl A. Nyberg) (05/29/87)
In article <855@rtech.UUCP>, daveb@rtech.UUCP (Dave Brower) writes: > Registering our domain is the right and sensible thing to do. > Unfortunately, the people holding purse strings do not seem to > understand: > > "What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150?" For starters, it helps if you hold the purse strings (I happen to own the company) - as the golden rule says: Them what's got the gold makes the rules... I'm sure that the initial costs of setting the database up, providing the initial software etc., maintaining correspondence with the various entities, etc. must be some of the things included in that cost. I, for one, have been quite pleased that the UUCP domain project has registered my top level domain with the DDN Network Information Center. At the moment, I'm still a one person company, but the timesharing users on my system are coming to appreciate the fact that people from various networks (DDN, BITNET, etc.) can send mail to them with great ease. Thus, for me, it's an added service that I provide to my users, and they appreciate it (some even put it on their business cards, stationery, etc.) I also enjoy a fair amount of envy when I give people my net address, and it doesn't have all these percent signs, exclamation marks, etc. I may not be able to afford a Rolls, but I can afford a top level domain (if it were $500, that would be a different story). I also don't expect that the folks at NIC would like to have to interface to all the small companies (you can't get much smaller), unless we wanted to pay them the money... I know that the NIC provides services for the DDN subscribers (user lists, network configuration management, etc.). I figure that I'm getting some part of this for my money as well. Perhaps the costs in the beginning are a little steeper than might be found out after running the system a while. There's always startup overhead, and I'm certain that as time goes on, better (read faster / cheaper, etc.) methods will be found for providing the services that will help bring the costs down. Finally, I have to admit, I got on this bandwagon real early, and was a guinea pig for the early software, the registration process, etc., and so the first six months of service this year have been free (they called it "grandfathering"). As they also say, "the check is in the mail"... -- Karl -- DDN: nyberg@ada20.isi.edu INET: karl@grebyn.com - AKA - karl%grebyn.com@seismo.css.gov uucp: {decuac, seismo}!grebyn!karl
don@novavax.UUCP (05/30/87)
In article <2208@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >> Registering our domain is the right and sensible thing to do. >> Unfortunately, the people holding purse strings do not seem to understand: >> >> "What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150?" >> >> I would appreciate some arguments I can send back to the money changers. > >I have the same question. Let me ask another one: > > "What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150 PER YEAR?" > >It seems like a one-time database update to me. If somebody wants to change >their entry, they can always pay to submit the change, just like with the phone >company. But why pay every year for no service? > >Does Stargate Information Systems have an accountant? Do they make regular >reports of where the money is going, like Usenix does? Can we see such a >report? Let's see now, 1000 sites times $150 = $ 150,000 year / 12 = $ 12,500 month 5000 sites times $150 = $ 750,000 year / 12 = $ 62,500 month 10000 sites times $150 = $1,500,000 year / 12 = $125,000 month That's a lot of money! What are you going to use it for? Machines, paying phone bills, paying employees? Maybe I can get a break if I join UUNET? :-) Responses to map updates have been slooow. Have I been noticing the extra load put on the volunteers, or is it a hint to pay up? Is this money going to be used to fund Stargate (The satellite stuff)? If so, I don't want to help pay for it, but I would like to "register" my site name. As a matter of fact, I don't really want to "register" my sites name, I just want other sites to know that we exist and who we talk to. Ya know, like it used to work. :-) Please NO FLAMES! Even though this looks like a flame, it's not :-) P.S. If ya guys need help, let me know. I'm sure I can get another 50 volunteers together to help lighten the load. All ya have to do is ask. I'm sure a small army of people will volunteer :-)
blarson@castor.usc.edu (Bob Larson) (05/30/87)
In article <609@grebyn.COM> karl@grebyn.COM (Karl A. Nyberg) writes: >In article <855@rtech.UUCP>, daveb@rtech.UUCP (Dave Brower) writes: >> Registering our domain is the right and sensible thing to do. >> Unfortunately, the people holding purse strings do not seem to >> understand: >> >> "What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150?" Having a valid domain should include having a nameserver on the arpa tcp/ip internet that will answer queries on how to get to your domain. (In the case of uucp sites, an MX record pointing to a system willing to forward mail to you.) Actually, I think they may require two domain servers on separate IMPs. CPU's and disks arn't free, even if this service does not present much of a load keeping them available does cost money. -- Bob Larson Arpa: Blarson@Usc-Ecl.Arpa Uucp: (several backbone sites)!sdcrdcf!usc-oberon!castor.usc.edu!blarson seismo!cit-vax!usc-oberon!castor.usc.edu!blarson
david@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (David Robinson) (05/31/87)
In article <343@novavax.UUCP>, don@novavax.UUCP (Don Joslyn) writes: > [I lost this persons name somewhere, not Don] > >I have the same question. Let me ask another one: > > > > "What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150 PER YEAR?" > > > >It seems like a one-time database update to me. If somebody wants to change > >their entry, they can always pay to submit the change, just like with the phone > >company. But why pay every year for no service? Someone has to pay for the disk and CPU time it takes to have mail forwarded through the registry machines. As you may know seismo is very heavly loaded passing mail to all sorts of sites. Phone time adds up! > Let's see now, > > 1000 sites times $150 = $ 150,000 year / 12 = $ 12,500 month > 5000 sites times $150 = $ 750,000 year / 12 = $ 62,500 month > 10000 sites times $150 = $1,500,000 year / 12 = $125,000 month This appears that there is some misunderstanding as to who has to register. Only the organization has to register once, for example, widget corp who has 1000 machines pays $150 that covers ALL their machines and gives them WIDGET.COM as a domain. A cost of $.15/per machine, quite low! I think it will be quite a while before 10000 companies sign up. Consider the cost of a Sun-3/160 with a lifetime of ~5 years and maintanence and phone bills and people's time $50/year doesn't seem to high. If a large number of people sign up the costs per registry will probably go down and the UUCP folks might refect that in future pricing schemes. -- David Robinson elroy!david@csvax.caltech.edu ARPA david@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (new) seismo!cit-vax!elroy!david UUCP Disclaimer: No one listens to me anyway!
hokey@plus5.UUCP (Hokey) (06/01/87)
Except, of course, that no part of the $150 per year goes to defray seismo's (or anybody elses, for that matter) phone bill. (Or has something changed?) -- Hokey
tim@ism780c.UUCP (06/03/87)
In article <2208@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes:
FU
CK I have the same question. Let me ask another one:
I
NE "What do we get out of it that justifies us paying $150 PER YEAR?"
WS
D It seems like a one-time database update to me. If somebody wants to change
EA their entry, they can always pay to submit the change, just like with the
D! phone company. But why pay every year for no service?
I don't know why *they* are doing it that way, but if I were in charge
of things, I too would have a yearly fee. That way, when a company
goes under, or drops off the net, or whatever, and no one tells the
people keeping the data, that site will be dropped when it comes
time to pay the yearly fee.
--
Tim Smith "Froh wie seine Sonnen fliegen
sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim Durch des Himmels praecht'gen Plan,
Laufet, Brueder, eure Bahn,
Freudig wie ein Held zum Siegen"dpz@aramis.rutgers.edu.UUCP (06/05/87)
[ eat me ] > From: tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith) > I don't know why *they* are doing it that way, but if I were in charge > of things, I too would have a yearly fee. That way, when a company > goes under, or drops off the net, or whatever, and no one tells the > people keeping the data, that site will be dropped when it comes > time to pay the yearly fee. Well... I don't think that would be a justifiable reason. You could just as easily give an electronic or snailmail ping instead of that. A yearly fee should pay for something, not be something to be billed to see if you are still alive. My theory? They're saving it all for a mega-huge New Years Eve party. dpz -- David P. Zimmerman rutgers!dpz dpz@rutgers.edu
keld@diku.UUCP (06/06/87)
I've seen lots of articles on this subject, but none from the domain administration itself. Could I please ask this domain registry administration to justify the prices itself? Keld Simonsen, University of Copenhagen keld@diku.uucp