abennett@athena.mit.edu (Andrew Bennett) (12/07/90)
A user of mine got the following message. He's tried everything, but every reply seems to bounce back. Can anyone piece together what the proper reply address should be? Many thanks, -Drew THE MESSAGE: > > From: REL::"motcid!corkmail@uunet.UU.NET" > To: uunet!rel.mit.edu!jerry%oldrel.dnet@uunet.UU.NET > CC: > Subj: sister > > From: glas!mary (Mary Dwyer) > Message-Id: <9012041425.AA09924@> > To: motcid!uunet!rel.mit.edu!jerry%oldrel.dnet > Subject: sister > > Hi Jerry, > Can you hear me ? > Mary ----------------------------------------------------- Andrew Bennett abennett@mit.edu MIT Room 11-124H abennett%athena@mitvma.bitnet 77 Massachusetts Ave. Phone: (617) 253-7174 Cambridge, MA 02139 <Standard disclaimers apply> -----------------------------------------------------
lws@comm.wang.com (Lyle Seaman) (12/18/90)
abennett@athena.mit.edu (Andrew Bennett) writes: >A user of mine got the following message. He's tried everything, but >every reply seems to bounce back. Can anyone piece together what the >proper reply address should be? > [ ... ] >> >> From: REL::"motcid!corkmail@uunet.UU.NET" >> To: uunet!rel.mit.edu!jerry%oldrel.dnet@uunet.UU.NET >> CC: >> Subj: sister >> >> From: glas!mary (Mary Dwyer) >> Message-Id: <9012041425.AA09924@> >> To: motcid!uunet!rel.mit.edu!jerry%oldrel.dnet >> Subject: sister >> >> Hi Jerry, It looks like Jerry is on some kind of funny network inside MIT, Decnet, perhaps? I can't say how Jerry should get out of that net, but I would use the following as an address from uunet: "uunet!corkmail!motcid!glas!mary" or maybe just "uunet!motcid!glas!mary". Sometimes, it's informative to source-route a path in a loop, eg, uunet!corkmail!uunet!me, then uunet!corkmail!motcid!corkmail!uunet!me. However, some sites think they're smart and they collapse the loop, so when the mail comes back, you have to check the postmarks and see where it actually went. In fact, it would be easier to determine a correct route for this item if Andrew had posted the postmarks from the received item as well. It's worth noting that the world is still pretty split about how to handle the % hack, with some sites giving it precedence over ! and others not. This is an unfortunate situation. The only solution is to avoid mixing % and ! if at all possible. -- Lyle Wang lws@capybara.comm.wang.com 508 967 2322 Lowell, MA, USA Source code: the _ultimate_ documentation.
pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk (Piercarlo Grandi) (12/27/90)
Note followups are redirected to "comp.mail.misc". On 18 Dec 90 14:22:13 GMT, lws@comm.wang.com (Lyle Seaman) said: lws> It's worth noting that the world is still pretty split about how to lws> handle the % hack, with some sites giving it precedence over ! and lws> others not. This is an unfortunate situation. The only solution lws> is to avoid mixing % and ! if at all possible. Oh again. % should *never* be expanded by other than the target machine of a mail exchange. The rule is that if the local part of an address contains a %, the rightmost % is turned into a @ and the MTA is reinvoked. This is perfectly unambiguous. I would like to point out that on a UUCP based mail system, only ! exists, and BOTH @ and % are meaningless; on an RFC822 based mail system, only @ exists, and ! and % (before conversion into @) are meaningless. Example: a!b!c%d.e.f on a UUCP machine: route this to the 'b' site which is a neighbour of the 'a' site, and on 'b' deliver mail to 'c%d.e.f'. When the mail arrives on 'b', the delivery software looks at the delivery name, 'c%d.e.f'. ONLY AT THIS POINT the '%' may assume special meaning, if 'b' is an UUCP-to-Internet gateway, then the UUCP MTA converts the delivery name 'c%d.e.f' to 'c@d.e.f' and resubmits the message to the Internet MTA. If 'b' is a pure UUCP site, then the message will be delivered to local address 'c%d.e.f', e.g. by appending to mailbox '/usr/mail/c%d.e.f'. on a RFC822 machine: this is a local address. If the '%' hack has been enabled, this is converted to 'a!b!c@d.e.f', the MTA is reinvoked, and it will deliver the mail to host 'd.e.f', which will deliver the message to local address 'a!b!c', e.g. appending to mailbox '/usr/spool/mail/a!b!c'. If 'd.e.f' is an Internet-to-UUCP mail gateway, the Internet MTA will instead pass the message with an envelope of 'a!b!c' to the UUCP MTA, and it will eventually be delivered to local address 'c' on site 'b', a neighbour of 'a'. Example: pcg%uk.ac.aber.cs@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk on a Janet machine: this is in error. There is no site called 'nsfnet-relay.ac.uk' on Janet. on an Internet machine: the mail is delivered to 'nsfnet-relay.ac.uk' (a valid but illegal DNS address :->), and the Internet MTA there will get the local delivery address of 'pcg%uk.ac.aber.cs'. Since 'nsfnet-relay.ac.uk' is an Internet-to-Janet gateway, and this mail comes from the Internet side of the gateway, this is interpreted should be a Janet address, substituting the '%' for a '@', getting 'pcg@uk.ac.aber.cs', which is a valid (and legal) Janet name, and the message is delivered to 'pcg' in the 'uk.ac.aber.cs' domain. Example: lws%comm.wang.com@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay On a Janet machine: 'uk.ac.nsfnet-relay' is a Janet domain, so the mail is delivered there for 'lws%comm.wang.com'. Since it is a Janet-to-Internet gateway, '%' is turned to '@' and since the message arrived from the Janet side it is presumed to be intended for the Internet. 'lws@comm.wang.com' is exmained, 'comm.wang.com' is a valid (and legal) Internet domain, and the mail is forwarded to it for delivery to the 'lws' local address. On an Internet machine: thsi is in error. There is no site called 'uk.ac.nsfnet-relay' in the Internet. I hope this is very clear -- the precedence of '%' does not matter at all. The rule is that the rightmost '%' is turned into a '@' only when considering the local part of an address, and only on machines that are gateways. Final example: a roundtrip from Janet to Internet and backwards: pcg%uk.ac.aber.cs%nsfnet-relay.ac.uk%comm.wang.com@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay This should result in a rountrip, because each stage is only authorized to resolve to '@' the *rigthmost* '%'. Ah if only this were common practice! Incidentally, here is a good occasion to repeat my lament for Internet (and Janet) standards for addressing other naming domains. In the examples above the gateway was always between two domain. What if the gateways relays between more than two domains? For example, consider the following address (remember, it is not a route! none of the examples above involved routes!) from an UUCP site: a!b!c::d%e.f and 'b' is a gateway between from UUCP to the Internet and DECnet. When the UUCP MTA of 'b' sees a local delivery address of 'c::d%e', will it be resubmit the message to the Internet MTA as 'c::d@e.f', for delivery to local address 'c::d' on host 'e.f', or to the DECnet MTA for delivery to local address 'd%e.f' on host 'c'? The ambiguity here is inescapable, as when requesting the services of a gateway we should have some way to indicate which output MTA to use for forwarding the message; parsing the syntax of the address is not enough. For a more common example, consider a gateway from UUCP to Internet or Janet; the ambiguity here is inescapable, because addresses under both the Internet DNS and the Janet NRS have exactly the same syntax. So far ambiguity resolution has been haphazardly been done by UUCP to Janet or Internet gateways (like ...!mcsun!ukc, a.k.a. uk.ac.ukc, a.k.a. ukc.ac.uk) by looking at which of the extremities of the domain name looked like an NRS or DNS top domain; now that 'cs' may validly occur as a top domain name in the DNS, 'mistery.cs' can be interpreted both as 'the Czech machine mistery' or 'the machine of the computer science department of the mistery UK company or university or defense establishment'. It is possible to informally anchor domain names in the DNs by using '.' as root indicator, so that 'mistery.cs.' is surely (but really?) a DNS name, but this is narrow escape. The problem out to be solved, not fudged. -- Piercarlo Grandi | ARPA: pcg%uk.ac.aber.cs@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Dept of CS, UCW Aberystwyth | UUCP: ...!mcsun!ukc!aber-cs!pcg Penglais, Aberystwyth SY23 3BZ, UK | INET: pcg@cs.aber.ac.uk