gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (03/19/87)
In article <1342@ncc.UUCP>, lyndon@ncc.UUCP (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: > This still doesn't help the poor sucker who doesn't have a C compiler > though. I don't know if there really is a solution here, other than to > send the mailer source to all the systems vendors with an plea that they > include it as part of their port. Sun used to do this with netnews. They have stopped. The problem is that systems vendors only make major software releases every year or two. Meanwhile the news software changes out from under them, they are shipping buggy code whose bug fixes have long ago been fixed and forgotten, and they get calls from customers claiming that it came with their machine so the vendor should support it (i.e. document it well, supply patches and new releases, etc). All in all, a hassle -- and putting out a good Unix release is already a 6-month effort at best (*after* you have made your system work in the lab). Easier to let the customers get it from a neighboring system or a mod.sources archive. -- John Gilmore {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@ingres.berkeley.edu Love your country but never trust its government. -- from a hand-painted road sign in central Pennsylvania
csg@pyramid.UUCP (03/28/87)
In article <1906@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >Meanwhile the news software changes out from under them, they are >shipping buggy code whose bug fixes have long ago been fixed and >forgotten, and they get calls from customers claiming that it came with >their machine so the vendor should support it (i.e. document it well, >supply patches and new releases, etc). All in all, a hassle ... Easier to >let the customers get it from a neighboring system or a mod.sources archive. Pyramid has been shipping Netnews and a variety of other user contributed packages with its OSx release for some time now. Most of Pyramid's customers are commercial sites, hence they prefer having things like Netnews provided for them and integrated with the rest of the release. The problem has not been bugs and updates; much PD software is higher quality than what we get from AT&T. And commercial sites tend to be less concerned about the latest wizbang versions, so long as what they have is decently supported. But documentation has been a disaster. Most PD documentation is terrible, and when it's getting close to the release date and Tech Pubs has to chose between doing the Netnews manual and the Virtual Disk manual, you can guess which gets priority. But documentation is the first thing the customer sees when they want to try out a new package, so the perception of our PD products has not been good. We will probably continue to supply and support PD software with the release, since we have customers who ask for it. It sure is a goodness-of-our-hearts issue, though; we do not and cannot charge anything for the software, and no one is going to buy a Pyramid just because we have Netnews supported on it. (It may even be a strike against us. :-)) I wouldn't expect anyone else to try it. <csg>
johnc@haddock.UUCP (03/30/87)
>We will probably continue to supply and support PD software with the release, >since we have customers who ask for it. It sure is a goodness-of-our-hearts >issue, though; we do not and cannot charge anything for the software... Funny how this misconception keeps coming up. True, you can't copyright PD stuff, or make claims that it is yours. But there is nothing at all illegal (or even immoral or fattening) about taking such stuff and incorporting it into your own "product" which you sell for a price. The work of porting, testing, documenting, and generally "packaging" other people's PD stuff is a valid commercial service. Just don't try to claim a copyright on it. To be legally safe, as well as moral and ethical and all that, include in the documentation a prominent statement as to who the real author is. (In fact, you might even give an email path to them, so you won't be bothered by bug reports. :-) Recently, I learned that there is a company that will *sell* you a list of all the free documents available from the U.S. government, complete with addresses and phone numbers of the agencies. This popped up in a sarcastic article about people re-selling 'free' merchandise. But just try making a list like this yourself! You'll appreciate why someone might want you to reimburse them for their effort. 'Free' software is similar. It's free only to the few hackers that can take it and make it run. Your typical secretary couldn't even start to bring up usenet on the office PC or Mac. If someone were to offer a "plug-it-in-and- watch-it-run" package on a diskette, it could be a viable product. The important phrase is "added value". -- John Chambers (617)247-1155 ...!ima!johnc [No, I don't work at cdx39 any more.]