rms@prep.ai.mit.edu (Richard M. Stallman) (11/21/86)
I have received an interface from GNU Emacs to Sun Windows that will probably be included in Emacs version 18 in a few weeks. It provides for mouse support. However, if you are using a Sun, you should not use Sun windows. You should use the free X window system. 1. Using free software in preference to comparable proprietary software is an important way users can support the free software movement. 2. X is available on many kinds of machines. Thus, using it does not lock you in to any one manufacturer. X is standard in 4.3bsd. 3. X is network-oriented; programs on other machines can display on your screen as if they were local. 4. X is technically more versatile. For example, it allows a program to create multiple windows easily. 5. X is the window system that GNU will use. 6. GNU Emacs has a special interface to X windows thaht makes screen updating much faster. (It also provides mouse commands.) X tapes are available from the MIT microcomputer center.
jqj@gvax.UUCP (11/23/86)
In article <8611211945.AA02288@EDDIE> rms@prep.ai.mit.edu (Richard M. Stallman) writes: >I have received an interface from GNU Emacs to Sun Windows that will >probably be included in Emacs version 18 in a few weeks. It provides >for mouse support. > >... if you are using a Sun, you should not use Sun windows. >You should use the free X window system. > >1. Using free software in preference to comparable proprietary >software is an important way users can support the free software >movement. > >...[other arguments in favor of X] Although RMS may be correct that X is preferable to SunWindows as an interface, the issues are far more complex than he makes it seem. For example, he ignores the new SUN windowing system, NeWS, which is probably (my opinion. People at MIT tend to disagree) technically superior to X. More important, styling X as public and the SUN windowing system as proprietary ignores the extent to which DEC supports and maintains a proprietary interest in X. Although the interface spec. for X is public, the implementation of X servers for such DEC graphics devices as the VAXstation II is DEC proprietary. Thus, DEC uses X to force me to buy Ultrix rather than the closer-to-public 4.3BSD if I want to use a VAXstation or GPX. Is this non-proprietary? Do YOU want to support Ken Olsen's plan to make DEC richer by charging more for software?
jqj@gvax.UUCP (11/23/86)
In my previous posting I raised issues in response to RMS which perhaps are inappropriate for comp.emacs. More appropriate would be a discussion of the features of various windowing systems that make it easy or hard to implement emacs-like multiwindow mouse-based editors. Would anyone who is familiar with both the SUN windowing system and X care to compare them from this perspective? In particular, I'm interested in issues of synchronization of events, ease of implementing things like scroll bars and menus, etc.
jkh@opal.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) (12/02/86)
In article <8611211945.AA02288@EDDIE> rms@prep.ai.mit.edu (Richard M. Stallman) writes: >I have received an interface from GNU Emacs to Sun Windows that will >probably be included in Emacs version 18 in a few weeks. It provides >for mouse support. > >However, if you are using a Sun, you should not use Sun windows. >You should use the free X window system. > >1. Using free software in preference to comparable proprietary >software is an important way users can support the free software >movement. > >2. X is available on many kinds of machines. Thus, using it >does not lock you in to any one manufacturer. X is standard >in 4.3bsd. > >3. X is network-oriented; programs on other machines can >display on your screen as if they were local. All these perfectly reasonable points aside, X has one big significant win over suntools that wasn't mentioned: It's smaller and faster! Several sun clusters here at U.C. Berkeley have switched to X because of lack of swap space and/or excessive ND traffic from diskless suns caused by suntools's obesity. Of course, GNU emacs isn't exactly svelte (sorry Richard), but if you're gonna run it you'd better run it with something that's small and fast. I use GNU under X on my Vaxstations and my suns, and wouldn't use anything else. As soon as I get it ported to the IBM PC/RT I'll use it there too (yes, X runs on the RT) It's kinda nice to slap remote Emacs windows up on various displays from even more various machines without hassle. The only gripe I currently have with GNUemacs is that it does not accept the 'standard' set of X-application command line (or startup file) flags. Thus you cannot specify geometries, font types, colors, mouse bitmaps, etc for it. This is not to say that some of these things have not been done. I've seen a hacked version with selectable fonts, but it's not in the standard release. Since Richard is not supporting the X hacks, it's kind of hard to figure out when this stuff will be done, or who is working on it. Jordan Hubbard manager of workstation software University of California, Berkeley. ucbvax!jkh