[comp.emacs] MS-DOS GNU, and CP/M, and MicroGNU.

daveb@rtech.UUCP (02/28/87)

In article <4965@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU> jbs@eddie.MIT.EDU (Jeff Siegal) writes:
>In article <1033@cartan.Berkeley.EDU> rusty@weyl.Berkeley.EDU (Rusty Wright) writes:
>>Speaking of emacs for MS/DOS, how about a version of Gnu Emacs for
>>CPM/80?  We have a couple of CPM machines around here and it would be
>>nice if we had emacs for them.


>The size of GNU Emacs at startup is almost 600K, and after loading a
>few packages, and editing a few files (i.e. buffer space), 1.5 Meg is
>closer to what you'll need.  It might be possible to get an MSDOS
>version up on a system with 640K, but this would require a lot of work
>(if it is even possible).
>
>A more practical solution (it might even work on CPM!) is
>MicroGNUEmacs (or other MicroEmacs variants), available from
>mod.sources.

Microemacs in all its flavors (3.8x, micrognu, v30, etc) keeps text memory
resident.  It would be next to impossible to have this work on CP/M-80 in
any reasonable way, since you don't have any memory to play with.

There was a rumoured version that did some paging, but I have not seen it,
nor do I know where it exists.

Other free options would be SCAME or JOVE.  All are all relatively
feature-laden (read: large) for CP/M, and none to my knowledge pages
anything to disk.

I suggest you try to get a MINCE (from Mark of the Unicorn) or a Perfect
Writer 1.x (a repackaged MINCE).  I don't think either is being sold
anymore, but who knows what you might find at a swap meet somewhere.
Mince came with source for the command set, and object for the redisplay
and buffer manager so you can add features.  Doing so requires the BDS C
compiler.  Perfect Writer was a binary only distribution.  Both would edit 
large files by paging things out to disk.

The PW manual is a particularly nice intro to the basic functions of the
emacs family.

-dB
-- 
If it worked, we wouldn't call it high tech.

{amdahl, sun, mtxinu, cbosgd}!rtech!daveb

jpn@teddy.UUCP (John P. Nelson) (03/04/87)

>Other free options would be SCAME or JOVE.  All are all relatively
>feature-laden (read: large) for CP/M, and none to my knowledge pages
>anything to disk.

I'm pretty sure that JOVE pages to disk.  I don't know if it would fit
on a CP/M system, though.

daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/06/87)

in article <3816@teddy.UUCP>, jpn@teddy.UUCP (John P. Nelson) says:
>>Other free options would be SCAME or JOVE.  All are all relatively
>>feature-laden (read: large) for CP/M, and none to my knowledge pages
>>anything to disk.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that JOVE pages to disk.  I don't know if it would fit
> on a CP/M system, though.

I don't know if JOVE bothers paging to disk, but the version I have 
running on my little VAX 11/750 here occupies 140288 bytes.  A bit
too much for a CP/M system, but it seems to have something over the
other uEmacses, like 3.7 and uGNU.  For one, reasonable on-line help; a

	M-X add-?

Would show me all the possible options in a window.  And it has the capability
to run shells right there in a JOVE window.

MicroGNUEmacs occupies 210944 bytes on my VAX, and lately its my editor of
choice overall.  Mainly because I have it running on my Amiga, and its very
smart about Amiga mouse events and the like.  JOVE is only running on the
VAX at the moment.  Though if you're looking for a CP/M Emacs (real CP/M,
right, with the Z-80 and all, not a 68000 CP/M-68K or anything) I'd
suggest looking up an older MicroEmacs if you're up to doing the port
yourself.  Some of the older ones run in 64K or less on my Amiga here,
which would probably shrink quite a bit on a Z-80 system, especially if
you downcoded a few modules to assembly language (nearly every uEmacs
I've seen is written in C, which of course lets it run on nearly any 
large memory machine, and even IBM PC clones without too much trouble).
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                   __  ____    ____    _____   _____   _____
Dave Haynie                       /// / _  |  / __ \  /  _  \ /  _  \ /  _  \
Commodore Technology             /// / / | | /_/  | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
                            |\  /// / /__| |  ____/ | | | | | | | | | | | | |
                            |\\/// / ____  | / ____/  | | | | | | | | | | | |
                             \\// / /    | | | |____  | |_| | | |_| | | |_| |
{ihnp4,etc.}!cbmvax!daveh     \/ /_/     |_| \______| \_____/ \_____/ \_____/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

wunder@hpcea.UUCP (03/07/87)

> I'm pretty sure that JOVE pages to disk.  I don't know if it would fit
> on a CP/M system, though.

JOVe will fit on a split I/D PDP-11, but I don't think you could cram
it into 64K.  ELLE will work on a non-split PDP-11, and that is only
56K.  ELLE must page to disk, because I have edited some pretty big
files with it.

wunder

PS:  ELLE = ELLE Looks Like Emacs

gordon@warwick.UUCP (Gordon Joly) (03/08/87)

In article <685@rtech.UUCP> daveb@rtech.UUCP (Dave Brower) writes:
[...]
>
>Microemacs in all its flavors (3.8x, micrognu, v30, etc) keeps text memory
>resident.  It would be next to impossible to have this work on CP/M-80 in
>any reasonable way, since you don't have any memory to play with.
>

FLAME ON!
Since I don't know what I am talking about either, here is part of
the header file for 3.7 (I think).
FLAME OFF.
I am not sure of the diff's between CPM-80 and CPM-86. The quoted and
referenced articles seemed to imply that there was no MSDOS version of
MicroEmacs.
CCode on.
/*
 * This file is the general header file for all parts of the MicroEMACS
 * display editor. It contains definitions used by everyone, and it contains
 * the stuff you have to edit to create a version of the editor for a specific
 * operating system and terminal.
 */
#define AMIGA   0                       /* AmigaDOS, Lattice            */
#define ST520   0                       /* ST520, TOS                   */
#define MWC86   0
#define V7      0                       /* V7 UN*X or Coherent          */
#define VMS     0                       /* VAX/VMS                      */
#define CPM     0                       /* CP/M-86                      */

#ifndef MSDOS                           /* Already defined for Lattice  */
#define MSDOS   0                       /* MS-DOS                       */
#endif

CCode off

Gordon Joly -- {seismo,ucbvax,decvax}!mcvax!ukc!warwick!gordon

walton@tybalt.caltech.edu.UUCP (03/09/87)

In article <1501@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie)
writes:

>MicroGNUEmacs occupies 210944 bytes on my VAX, and lately its my editor of
>choice overall.  Mainly because I have it running on my Amiga, ...

Dave must have compiled MicroGNU with -g turned on.  I compiled under 4.3BSD
with -O on and -g off, and stripped the executable.  It ended up as 60K
long.  So don't let this seemingly huge size put you off of MicroGNU,
it's an artifact of CFLAGS=-g in the mod.sources-distributed makefile.

						Steve Walton

daveb@rtech.UUCP (03/10/87)

In article <412@euclid.warwick.UUCP> gordon@warwick.UUCP (Gordon Joly) writes:
>In article <685@rtech.UUCP> daveb@rtech.UUCP (Dave Brower) writes:
>>
>>Microemacs in all its flavors (3.8x, micrognu, v30, etc) keeps text memory
>>resident.  It would be next to impossible to have this work on CP/M-80 in
>>any reasonable way, since you don't have any memory to play with.
>
>FLAME ON!
>Since I don't know what I am talking about either, here is part of
>the header file for 3.7 (I think).
>FLAME OFF.
>I am not sure of the diff's between CPM-80 and CPM-86. The quoted and
>referenced articles seemed to imply that there was no MSDOS version of
>MicroEmacs.

[ ... ]

>#define VMS     0                       /* VAX/VMS                      */
>#define CPM     0                       /* CP/M-86                      */
>

I do know what I'm talking about, microemacs in the three flavors I know
will not run reasonably on CP/M-80 (which is what I said originally).
Nowhere did I say anything about MSDOS or CP/M-86.

As should be clear from the header file quoted in this unthoughtful reply,
CP/M-86 is supported just fine.  Most any x86 has the memory to support it.
You do not have enough with a 60K TPA on CP/M-80.  That's what I said,
and that's what I meant.

Informed flames burn.  This is just aggravating.

-dB
-- 

{amdahl, sun, mtxinu, cbosgd}!rtech!daveb

daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (03/11/87)

in article <1983@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>, walton@tybalt.caltech.edu (Steve Walton) says:
> In article <1501@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie)
> writes:
>>MicroGNUEmacs occupies 210944 bytes on my VAX, and lately its my editor of
>>choice overall.  Mainly because I have it running on my Amiga, ...
> Dave must have compiled MicroGNU with -g turned on.  I compiled under 4.3BSD
> with -O on and -g off, and stripped the executable.  It ended up as 60K
> long.  So don't let this seemingly huge size put you off of MicroGNU,
> it's an artifact of CFLAGS=-g in the mod.sources-distributed makefile.
> 						Steve Walton
Wow, I screwed up!  I really didn't check the mod.sources makefile when I
brought MicroGnu up on the VAX.  On the Amiga, it came out to be 105424
byte, including all of the Amiga enhancements.  I think the program on the
Amiga is about as big as it can be on any machine; of course this is
compiler dependent, but I realize my 210K VAX version is completely out
of line.  Sorry if this has mislead anyone, I didn't mean to turn anyone
away from MicroGNU (I'm using it now, as a matter of fact.  The big fat
VAX version...).
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                   __  ____    ____    _____   _____   _____
Dave Haynie                       /// / _  |  / __ \  /  _  \ /  _  \ /  _  \
Commodore Technology             /// / / | | /_/  | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
                            |\  /// / /__| |  ____/ | | | | | | | | | | | | |
                            |\\/// / ____  | / ____/  | | | | | | | | | | | |
                             \\// / /    | | | |____  | |_| | | |_| | | |_| |
{ihnp4,etc.}!cbmvax!daveh     \/ /_/     |_| \______| \_____/ \_____/ \_____/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

gordon@warwick.UUCP (Gordon Joly) (03/14/87)

In article <699@rtech.UUCP> daveb@rtech.UUCP (Dave Brower) writes:
>
>[...]
>I do know what I'm talking about, microemacs in the three flavors I know
>will not run reasonably on CP/M-80 (which is what I said originally).
>Nowhere did I say anything about MSDOS or CP/M-86.
>
>As should be clear from the header file quoted in this unthoughtful reply,
>CP/M-86 is supported just fine.  Most any x86 has the memory to support it.
>You do not have enough with a 60K TPA on CP/M-80.  That's what I said,
>and that's what I meant.
>
>Informed flames burn.  This is just aggravating.
>
>-dB
>-- 
>
>{amdahl, sun, mtxinu, cbosgd}!rtech!daveb

Apologies to Dave and the net. The tone of my flame indicated my
lack of expertise, I hope. There had been so many comments asking
`does this version run on that machine' that I got well confused.

Sorry again,
Gordon Joly -- {seismo,ucbvax,decvax}!mcvax!ukc!warwiby c@syNOT

steveg@hpfcph.HP.COM ( Steve Grotheer) (03/16/87)

cpm-80 is a version of cpm that runs on z80 based systems and
cpm-86 is a version that runs on 8086 systems.