[comp.emacs] Bad assumptions made by GNUS NNTP news reader

earle@jplopto.uucp (Greg Earle) (02/04/88)

Although my initial playing around with `gnus' leaves a good impression,
after trying a followup posting, a couple of things I noticed disturbed me:

(1) GNUS sets the `Path:' header to be `NNTP-host!user' where NNTP-host
is the name of the NNTP server that GNUS uses.  This is patently wrong,
although one can say that the alternative, using the current system name,
is not much better.  At least in this case there is a reasonable chance that
given a generated Path: like
	...!NNTP-server!NNTP-client!poster
that if someone replies using a reversed Path:, hopefully NNTP-server will
see `rmail NNTP-Client!poster' and be able to grok that successfully.
Certainly the existing code will fail.

(2) GNUS seems obligated to insert a Message-ID: field.  I don't know how
`rrn' does it, but I do know that using `rrn' results in the NNTP server
having its own inews create the message ID, like `<1234@nntp_svr.some.do.main>'
which makes life easier for other Usenet software to deal with.  Instead,
GNUS creates a Message-ID: field that concatenates the user's login name,
converted to all CAPS, then a `.GNUS' followed by a number (1 or more?) thus
a followup by me would get tagged with something like
	Message-ID: <EARLE.GNUS1@jplopto.JPL.NASA.GOV>
For some reason, the remote inews on the NNTP server plays hands-off with
this Message-ID field, so reading the subsequent article shows this horrid
kludge in the final posted copy.  I've only seen formats like this from
sites using BABYL message formats (Simtel-20, MIT, etc.) for news articles
(which were probably gatewayed from mailing lists, and were thus mail msgs.).
Now I suppose there's nothing *illegal* about this, but if there's some way
to let the remote inews on the NNTP server create the Message-ID (like not
putting one in before shipping it to the remote inews), then that should be
done instead.

(3) When entering a newsgroup, GNUS decides you must want to see the beginning
of the first unread article in the group, so it sticks it in the buffer.
For remaining articles, you can mark them as read (i.e., skip them) via `d'
or `k' or whatnot, but you get the first one no matter whether you want it
or not.  I sentence the author to using GNUS at 1200 (or 300!) baud to see
how annoying this can be.  The default should be cursor on 1st article
subject line, with read buffer *empty*.  If you want to see #1, you'll hit
SPACE like for any other one.

(4) GNUS keeps a window of 4 lines of Subject: lines for reference, while
reading.  This is a good feature, but I don't understand why when the last
article in the window is read, the window only scrolls up two lines, showing
the (now current) next article and one after that, instead of scrolling
N-1 (i.e., 3; I don't know if this little window is dependant on the rest
of the window size available for its own size) lines so that the article
you just read is the only one left, and 3 new Subject: lines appear.  2
lines of previous context is acceptable for the read buffers (although
personally I prefer just 1, but Emacs convention being what it is), but is
unwieldy for just a four line window.

Note that #3 & #4 are somewhat nit-picky; I can appreciate the amount of
time put into the package, and I applaud the author's diligent efforts
(I can even overlook the spelling errors, after all his English is a wee bit
better than my Japanese! (-: ).  They are somewhat curious, though.
Three cheers for a job well done, anyway.


	Greg Earle		earle@jplopto.JPL.NASA.GOV
	Indep. Sun consultant	earle%jplopto@jpl-elroy.ARPA	[aka:]
	Rockwell Science Center	earle%jplopto@elroy.JPL.NASA.GOV
	Thousand Oaks, CA	...!cit-vax!elroy!smeagol!jplopto!earle

umerin@photon.stars.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET (Masanobu UMEDA) (02/26/88)

Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.47.5 of Mon Nov  2 1987 on photon (berkeley-unix)


In article <5372@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> earle@jplopto.uucp (Greg Earle) writes:
> (1) GNUS sets the `Path:' header to be `NNTP-host!user' where NNTP-host
> is the name of the NNTP server that GNUS uses.  This is patently wrong,

`Path:' field is intended to be used for feeding news articles
effectively, not by mail. If host name of NNTP client is included in
the path, the host will not receive the article even when the host is
receiving or relaying usenet news. This is absolutely wrong.

> (2) GNUS seems obligated to insert a Message-ID: field.  I don't know how
> `rrn' does it, but I do know that using `rrn' results in the NNTP server
> having its own inews create the message ID, like `<1234@nntp_svr.some.do.main>'
> which makes life easier for other Usenet software to deal with.  Instead,
> GNUS creates a Message-ID: field that concatenates the user's login name,
> converted to all CAPS, then a `.GNUS' followed by a number (1 or more?) thus
> a followup by me would get tagged with something like
> 	Message-ID: <EARLE.GNUS1@jplopto.JPL.NASA.GOV>

`rrn' (standard NNTP client program) has its own client inews program
which should be installed publicly in local host by system
administrator (or root). A number in Message ID can be easily shared
by inews between users in the local host.

On the other hand, GNUS need not to be installed publicly because it
does not depend on any other standard news programs except for NNTP
server. So, there is no safe way to share a number of message ID
between other GNUS users in the local host. I think NNTP server should
do the job.

Anyway, what kind of Message ID do you expect?

> (3) When entering a newsgroup, GNUS decides you must want to see the beginning
> of the first unread article in the group, so it sticks it in the buffer.

Just type `=' instead of SPACE. You may not be able to find out the
command because of my Japanenglish. (:-)

> (4) GNUS keeps a window of 4 lines of Subject: lines for reference, while
> reading.  This is a good feature, but I don't understand why when the last
> article in the window is read, the window only scrolls up two lines, showing
> the (now current) next article and one after that, instead of scrolling
> N-1 lines so that the article
> you just read is the only one left, and 3 new Subject: lines appear.  2
> lines of previous context is acceptable for the read buffers , but is
> unwieldy for just a four line window.

This is Emacs feature. GNUS does nothing about scrolling.
--
Masanobu UMEDA
umerin@flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET
umerin%flab.flab.Fujitsu.JUNET@uunet.uu.NET