rbj@nav.icst.nbs.GOV (Root Boy Jim) (12/09/88)
? From: David Lawrence <compass.UUCP!lawrence@eddie.mit.edu> ? A recent posting advertised the distribution of GNU software by a ? company named ISPI, located in New York. ? Although this is allowed for by the GNU General Public License, it seems ? inappropriate to me that a for-profit organization would avail itself ? of a "free good" (the net) to advertise their services. ? I feel that this is contrary to the spirit of GNU, and it is most certainly ? contrary to the raison d'etre of this particular newsgroup. If you want ? to provide a service and charge for it, it is only fair that you assume ? all of the costs associated with providing that service, INCLUDING ? publicity. ? This newsgroup exists for the FREE interchange of ideas, suggestions and ? pleas for help, in the GNU philosophy. People should not have to wade ? through advertisements in order to solve their problems. Please, let's keep ? advertisements in the paid media, and keep this group in the spirit of GNU. Yeah, and lets get those crass money-grubbing announcements from the Free Software Foundation out of here too :-) Seriously, how did their prices compare with FSF? If I had two tape drives on one system I'd probably go into the cloning business myself. There is a fine line here. If their prices are "reasonable" (a la FSF), then by "advertising" here, they keep their (and our) cost down. If their prices are "commercial" (say, $1000/tape), then to hell with them, and they can advertise in a real magazine. ? Thanks (Root Boy) Jim Cottrell (301) 975-5688 <rbj@nav.icst.nbs.gov> or <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa> Crackers and Worms -- Breakfast of Champions!
usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) (12/10/88)
in article <8812081600.AA18091@nav.icst.nbs.gov>, rbj@nav.icst.nbs.GOV (Root Boy Jim) says: > ? A recent posting advertised the distribution of GNU software by a > ? company named ISPI, located in New York. > Seriously, how did their prices compare with FSF? Their $150 price for a tape seemed resonable, but $400 for GNU on floppies seemed way out of line. Now, I realize that it would take a lot of floppies to put GNU on. HOWEVER, I'd estimate that over half of that price is profit.... If it isn't profit, please tell me what it is. John H. Lawitzke UUCP: ...rutgers!mailrus!frith!fciiho!jhl Michigan Farm Bureau ...decvax!purdue!mailrus!frith!fciiho!jhl Insurance Group ...uunet!frith!jhl "What?!? Real computing at an insurance company?!? AND in Michigan!?!"
mesard@bbn.com (Wayne Mesard) (12/10/88)
In article <1278@cps3xx.UUCP> usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) writes: >Their $150 price for a tape seemed resonable, but $400 for GNU on >floppies seemed way out of line. Now, I realize that it would take a lot >of floppies to put GNU on. HOWEVER, I'd estimate that over half of that >price is profit.... > >If it isn't profit, please tell me what it is. I would imagine that it's partial compensation for the person who has to sit in front of the machine and yank floppies in and out. -- unsigned *Wayne_Mesard(); "I finally resorted to breaking the </> key MESARD@BBN.COM on all the macs..." BBN, Cambridge, MA -Joe Angelo, Teknekron Software Systems
jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) (12/10/88)
In article <8812081600.AA18091@nav.icst.nbs.gov>, rbj@nav.icst.nbs.GOV (Root Boy Jim) writes: > ? From: David Lawrence <compass.UUCP!lawrence@eddie.mit.edu> > > ? A recent posting advertised the distribution of GNU software by a > ? company named ISPI, located in New York. > > ? Although this is allowed for by the GNU General Public License, it seems > ? inappropriate to me that a for-profit organization would avail itself > ? of a "free good" (the net) to advertise their services. > > ? I feel that this is contrary to the spirit of GNU, and it is most certainly > ? contrary to the raison d'etre of this particular newsgroup. If you want > ? to provide a service and charge for it, it is only fair that you assume > ? all of the costs associated with providing that service, INCLUDING > ? publicity. > > ? This newsgroup exists for the FREE interchange of ideas, suggestions and > ? pleas for help, in the GNU philosophy. People should not have to wade > ? through advertisements in order to solve their problems. Please, let's keep > ? advertisements in the paid media, and keep this group in the spirit of GNU. > > Yeah, and lets get those crass money-grubbing announcements from the Free > Software Foundation out of here too :-) > > Seriously, how did their prices compare with FSF? If I had two tape drives > on one system I'd probably go into the cloning business myself. > > There is a fine line here. If their prices are "reasonable" (a la FSF), > then by "advertising" here, they keep their (and our) cost down. If their > prices are "commercial" (say, $1000/tape), then to hell with them, and > they can advertise in a real magazine. Since we are the company in question, I feel obliged to respond. Intelligent Software Products, Inc. (ISPI) is providing the tapes at cost. While many will disagree with what the cost is, I will provide some of the figuring: The costs include a hookup with UUNET. This hookup provides us with the latest and most up-to-date versions of the software. It is also where we have our primary e-mail link. We have received several responses via the net. There is also the time and labor involved in making the tapes. We also have to worry about the wear and tear on the equipment involved. A tape drive that is only used once a week for backups will last much longer than one which is used to make distribution tapes. Finally, the actual prices. We are charging $ 125 per tape plus shipping/handling. International costs are higher, so we charge $ 175 for that. If anybody wishes to download the entire distribution from UUNET, even if they use a trailblazer it will cost them between $ 100 and $ 150. I don't know what the FSF charges, but rumor tells me that it is more than our prices. We don't expect to make money on this. However, we also don't want to lose money. Our prices reflect this reality. Finally, regarding the advertising question. Some people regard any announcement as an advertisement. I sent out one notice regarding the GNU tapes. Unless there is a major change I will not send out any more on this subject. Those people who object can simply type "n". Jonathan Bayer Intelligent Software Products, Inc.
jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) (12/10/88)
In article <1278@cps3xx.UUCP>, usenet@cps3xx.UUCP (Usenet file owner) writes: > in article <8812081600.AA18091@nav.icst.nbs.gov>, rbj@nav.icst.nbs.GOV (Root Boy Jim) says: > > ? A recent posting advertised the distribution of GNU software by a > > ? company named ISPI, located in New York. > > Seriously, how did their prices compare with FSF? > > Their $150 price for a tape seemed resonable, but $400 for GNU on > floppies seemed way out of line. Now, I realize that it would take a lot > of floppies to put GNU on. HOWEVER, I'd estimate that over half of that > price is profit.... First off, your price for the tape is high by $ 25. The price is $ 125 plus shipping. Secondly, regarding the floppies. Using 1.2 meg floppies we need between 25 and 30 diskettes. The time involved is where the costs are. Finally, this is a service. As such, it should not interfere with our normal business. If it does then we will be losing money. The price for the floppies reflects this. We would prefer to ship on tape. But, if someone wants the software on floppies then we will be able to oblige. Jonathan Bayer Intelligent Software Products, Inc.