pem@cadnetix.COM (Paul Meyer) (10/31/89)
In article <1150@mipos3.intel.com> woodstock@hobbes.intel.com (Nate Hess) writes: >In article <87@toaster.SFSU.EDU>, stan@toaster (Stan Osborne) writes: >>Would people porting gnu software to Mac's please identify themselves >>to all of us who have lots of Mac's. We desperately want to run the >>same editor, compiler's, bison's, etc's. on all of our computer systems. >> >>Please email me any info you might have. I will sumarize and post Point 1: IF GNU.MISC.DISCUSS IS THE ONLY GNU.* GROUP WHERE DISAGREEMENT WITH FSF POLITICS IS ALLOWED TO BE DISCUSSED, BY GOLLY I'LL DISCUSS MY DISAGREEMENT WITH FSF POLITICS HERE! Please *don't* restrict your followups to non-gnu groups like comp.emacs. (Of course, please *do* restrict your followups to groups appropriate to your content.) Point 2: Of course, here in gnu.misc.discuss, the viewpoint that one does not *have* to agree with GNU politics to like GNU software, even though one *supports* GNU politics by supporting GNU software, is expressed regularly and often as a "rebuttal" to people who complain about GNU's politics. Here we have an opportunity to see how rms's own ideals can fight his own political program! (My opinion of rms's morals is actually high--I just don't agree with him. I don't expect what I mention below to actually happen...) Why don't we create an alt.macgnu (or some variant) newsgroup specifically for discussion of and work on mac ports of GNU software? The thrust of the GPL is certainly against any attempts to prevent porting GNU software to the Mac--or is FSF going to "hoard" their source-code from us? Of course, FSF is free to make efforts with every release to break the fixes/patches that made the previous release work on Macs, but isn't the claimed purpose of FSF to make programmers more productive? Spending time finding ways to break patches doesn't sound like productivity to me... Paul Meyer pem@cadnetix.COM Daisy/Cadnetix Inc. (DAZIX) {uunet,boulder}!cadnetix!pem 5775 Flatirons Pkwy. GEnie P.MEYER Boulder, CO 80301 (303)444-8075x277
wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) (10/31/89)
I would like to see FSF software running on mac... but under MacMach, not
the Mac OS.
Hopefully, MacMach will help break down the wall between the system software
and the programmer that Apple has forced on all of us ("we will tell you
what you NEED to know and no more").
onward,
b.bum
wb1j+@andrwe.cmu.educhewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) (11/01/89)
In article <cZHJz8i00VcI83NDhu@andrew.cmu.edu> wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) writes: > I would like to see FSF software running on mac... but under MacMach, not > the Mac OS. I wouldn't worry too much about this; no FSF software that I know of runs under the Mac OS, as (thank God) the Mac OS isn't a UNIX variant. Most of it DOES run under MPW, though, since MPW deliberately resembles UNIX. In article <cZHJz8i00VcI83NDhu@andrew.cmu.edu> wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) writes: > Hopefully, MacMach will help break down the wall between the system software > and the programmer that Apple has forced on all of us ("we will tell you > what you NEED to know and no more"). MacMach can't help but bring the programmer closer to the system software; it's just UNIX, after all (albeit a much nicer UNIX architecture than most). And the reality of the situation is that Apple doesn't enforce a wall between the system software and the programmer; we attempt to provide an understanding that there are a wide variety of things that, while they may work with our CURRENT hardware and system software, are by no means guaranteed to continue to do so, and therefore we a) discourage their use in situations where the developer already knows how to do these evil things, and b) don't tell developers who DON'T know how to do these evil thngs how to do them. Most of us in MacDTS at least make an attempt to explain why you shouldn't do certain things, like tail-patching traps. If we're guilty of anything, perhaps it's of assuming that when we say "don't do this," the developer will understand why s/he shouldn't by osmosis or something. On the other hand, oftentimes our jobs would be much easier if some people would read Inside Macintosh and the Tech Notes before undertaking something that we've either already explained how to do, or explained why doing it is a bad idea. __________________________________________________________________________ Just because I work for Apple Computer, Inc. doesn't mean that they believe what I believe or vice-versa. __________________________________________________________________________ C++ -- The language in which only friends can access your private members. __________________________________________________________________________
think@ut-emx.UUCP (s j moon) (11/01/89)
> > I would like to see FSF software running on mac... but under MacMach, not > the Mac OS. > > Hopefully, MacMach will help break down the wall between the system > software and the programmer that Apple has forced on all of us > ("we will tell you what you NEED to know and no more"). > What is MacMach ? Could you tell us details of it? thanks. s j moon
chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) (11/02/89)
In article <20338@ut-emx.UUCP> think@ut-emx.UUCP (s j moon) writes: > > > > I would like to see FSF software running on mac... but under MacMach, not > > the Mac OS. > > > > Hopefully, MacMach will help break down the wall between the system > > software and the programmer that Apple has forced on all of us > > ("we will tell you what you NEED to know and no more"). > > > > What is MacMach ? Could you tell us details of it? > thanks. s j moon Sure. What's loosely known as "MacMach" is Carnegie-Mellon University's port of their Mach OS kernel (and presumably the rest of the OS) to the Macintosh II family of computers. Mach is a very tight UNIX kernel which, with the appropriate layers above it, can (and generally does) maintain OS service-level compatibility with 4.3 BSD UNIX, but it has several other nifty features as well, such as lightweight processes, more general/powerful IPC, and the like. More information can be had by reading comp.os.mach. __________________________________________________________________________ Just because I work for Apple Computer, Inc. doesn't mean that they believe what I believe or vice-versa. __________________________________________________________________________ C++ -- The language in which only friends can access your private members. __________________________________________________________________________
jnh@ecemwl.ncsu.edu (Joseph N. Hall) (11/02/89)
In article <4996@internal.Apple.COM> chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) writes:
...What's loosely known as "MacMach" is Carnegie-Mellon University's
port of their Mach OS kernel ...
...More information can be had by reading comp.os.mach.
Sure, if you have time to keep up with the lively stream of 1-2 posts
per week ... :-)
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