jbrown@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jordan Brown) (12/02/89)
So I'm weird. For various historical and amusement reasons, I'm looking for a copy of the MIT Teco manual. Back in the ITS days I believe its name was ".INFO.;TECO ORDER". Does anybody have it? A pointer for anonymous FTP would be plenty. Unfortunately it looks like MC has finally gone the way of all things, so I can't get a copy there. Sigh. There's got to be copies elsewhere, at TOPS-20 sites, though. I don't read any of these newsgroups; please email responses. Thanks.
tml@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) (12/05/89)
In article <2318@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> jbrown@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jordan Brown) writes: >So I'm weird. For various historical and amusement reasons, I'm >looking for a copy of the MIT Teco manual. Back in the ITS days >I believe its name was ".INFO.;TECO ORDER". Does anybody have it? >A pointer for anonymous FTP would be plenty. Funny, just this morning I had similar thoughts. It would be nice if some FTP site could provide files interesting from a "software archaeology" standpoint, like for instance TECO.ORDER, TECO.MID (wasn't the PDP-10 TECO written in something called MIDAS?), some Twenex EMACS library sources, MACLISP sources, etc. (I guess it shows that the first Real Computer I used was a DEC-20). -- Tor Lillqvist, VTT/ATK
eliot@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Eliot Handelman) (12/07/89)
In article <4331@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi> tml@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes: ;In article <2318@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> jbrown@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jordan Brown) writes: ;>So I'm weird. For various historical and amusement reasons, I'm ;>looking for a copy of the MIT Teco manual. Back in the ITS days ;>I believe its name was ".INFO.;TECO ORDER". Does anybody have it? ;>A pointer for anonymous FTP would be plenty. ; ;Funny, just this morning I had similar thoughts. It would be nice if ;some FTP site could provide files interesting from a "software ;archaeology" standpoint, like for instance TECO.ORDER, TECO.MID (wasn't ;the PDP-10 TECO written in something called MIDAS?), some Twenex EMACS ;library sources, MACLISP sources, etc. I second the motion -- "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it." Personally I've been trying to get hold of a spec for IPL-V.
stampe@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (David Stampe) (12/07/89)
There are copies of the MIT Teco manual and many other Twenex info files on tut.cis.ohio-state.edu in pub/gnu/emacs/elisp-archive/info/. Namely: biblio.info.Z columns.info.Z conv.info.Z crtsty.info.Z dir.info.Z docond.info.Z eclu.info.Z efortran.info.Z emacs.info.Z epasc.info.Z epl1.info.Z etex.info.Z exec.info.Z info.info.Z inter.info.Z ispell.info.Z itstty.info.Z ivory.info.Z jargon.info.Z jsysaf.info.Z jsysnr.info.Z jsyssz.info.Z languages.info.Z ledit.info.Z mail.Z midas.info.Z modlin.info.Z pdp-10.info.Z renum.info.Z rguide.info.Z rsx20f.info.Z slowly.info.Z srccom.info.Z standards.info.Z tags.info.Z tdebug.info.Z teco.info.Z tecord.info.Z tmacs.info.Z vt100.info.Z wordab.info.Z xgp.info.Z atsign.info.Z babyl.info.Z haz1510.info.Z jsysgm.info.Z mkdump.info.Z satire.info.Z terms.info.Z I believe that tecord.info is RMS's original file, while teco.info is Lum Johnson's version, with a node for each Teco command. (Lum, please correct me if I've got it backwards.) emacs.info is the Twenex Emacs manual. conv.info is RMS's manual on programming Emacs in Teco. jargon.info is a slightly edited original, circa 1980, of The Hacker's Dictionary, with etymologies for kludge and split-p soup. Most of these are compatible with the GNU info format, so if you just put them into your ...emacs/info/ directory, and add a line for each in your ...emacs/info/dir file, you can read them in info. Now, two questions: * Whatever happened to the old file called Alice's PDP11 (or some such)? * There used to be an MIT AI Lab report on the design and philosophy of (Twenex) Emacs. (I've forgotten the author - it was not RMS). Does a machine-readable copy of this exists anywhere? David Stampe (stampe@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu)
bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) (12/08/89)
In article <4331@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi> tml@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes: In article <2318@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> jbrown@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jordan Brown) writes: ...For various historical and amusement reasons, I'm looking for a copy of the MIT Teco manual... ...It would be nice if some FTP site could provide files interesting from a "software archaeology" standpoint,... Try tut.cis.ohio-state.edu:pub/gnu/emacs/elisp-archive/info/teco.info.Z, or, equivalently, osu-cis!~/gnu/emacs/elisp-archive/info/teco.info.Z. There are a bunch of other info-format files there as well, most of them mostly ready to slip into your GNU Emacs info area, that I got from a local -20 one day last summer. Sorry, no sources in TECO.
bob@reed.UUCP (Bob Ankeney) (12/08/89)
Well, for TECO fiends, I'll pass this recent message along... I'm not involved in this archive (other than having contributed), so send notes to Pete. The TECO Collection as submitted to the DECUS Software Library is available via anonymous ftp from usc.edu in /pub/tecoc. One tar file exists for each VMS subdirectory in the collection. The subdirectories sre: [.DOC] The newest manual for "Standard" TECO, dated May 1985. This manual is newer than what DEC distributes. Also in here are v39 and v40 release notes, describing all kinds of goodies in TECO11 and TECO32, like callable TECO. [.EMACS11] Fred Fish's EMACS subset for TECO-11 v35 or higher. [.LIDSTER] Ken Lidster's macros and a documentation file that describes TECO initialization and how to customize it. [.MACROS] Best/latest versions of "classic" TECO macros from the rest of the collection. [.RSTS] TECO stuff from RSTS/E v9.5, thanks to Mark Derrick. Contains 1982 sources of VTEDIT, SQU, etc. with some documentation. I put this stuff in [.MACROS] and organized it there. [.RSX...] Everything I could find in the RSX SIG tapes relating to TECO. [.SMITH] Kelvin Smith's macros for munging BASIC under RSTS, documentation for TECO initialization for RSTS and VMS, and Kelvin's personal VTEDIT with documentation. [.SOFLIB] TECO entries from the DECUS Software Library. VTEDIT for VAX TPU, video editors for HP and Tektronix terminals, an EMACS-like package for RSTS/E TECO-11, the distribution of TECO-11 v36, more. [.TECO11] Source code for TECO-11 v36 (mixed mode for VMS). [.TECO32_FOR_V4] Native mode TECO32 released with VMS 5.0, but built under v4 so it will run under v4. No sources. [.TECOC] Pete Siemsen's TECO in C for VAX/VMS (almost Unix and MS-DOS). [.VMS...] Teco stuff from a VMS SIG CD-Rom disc, 1984-1987. [.UTECO] Matt Fichtenbaum's TECO in C (Jul 89) for Ultrix and SunOS. [.YMILES] Ya'akov Miles's TECO in C v1.04 (12 Jun 88) for MS-DOS. Things that didn't make it into the collection but may be added later include: 1. A video TECO in C that executes TECO commands immediately on the screen. 2. A preprocessor that reads a structured language and produces TECO 3. Another TECO in C 4. A TECO in 6502 assembly language 5. TECOC updates to make it work under MS-DOS. Please send complaints, suggestions, additions, etc. to Pete Siemsen 645 Ohio Ave. #302 Long Beach, Ca. 90814 (213) 433-3059 (home) (213) 743-0731 (work) Internet: siemsen@usc.edu
jbrown@herron.uucp (Jordan Brown) (12/08/89)
Thanks to everybody who replied. Several asked for a pointer to what I found... here's where I got a copy. (Thanks, Nelson!) < From: "Nelson H.F. Beebe" <Beebe@science.utah.edu> < X-Us-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, South Physics, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT 84112" < X-Telephone: (801) 581-5254 < Grab < PS:<SUBSYS.EMACS-162.INFO>TECORD.INFO.1137;P777752 93 235649(7) 16-Feb-87 14:25:21 BEEBE < from science.utah.edu. < ------- -- Jordan Brown jbrown@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
terry@sunquest.UUCP (Terry Friedrichsen) (12/29/89)
In article <4331@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi>, tml@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes: > (wasn't > the PDP-10 TECO written in something called MIDAS?) Nope. Got a listing right here in front of me; good old DEC-10 assembler (MACRO-10). Of course, this is version 23 or so. Now maybe the ORIGINAL version was done in something other than MACRO-10. But we're off the comp.emacs track here ... Terry R. Friedrichsen TERRY@SDSC.EDU (alternate address; I live and work in Tucson)
aej@wpi.wpi.edu (Allan E Johannesen) (12/29/89)
>>>>> On 28 Dec 89 18:09:33 GMT, terry@sunquest.UUCP (Terry Friedrichsen) said: terry> In article <4331@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi>, tml@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes: > (wasn't > the PDP-10 TECO written in something called MIDAS?) terry> Nope. Got a listing right here in front of me; good old DEC-10 assembler terry> (MACRO-10). Of course, this is version 23 or so. Now maybe the ORIGINAL terry> version was done in something other than MACRO-10. But we're off the terry> comp.emacs track here ... emacs was originally written in MIT TECO under ITS (the incompatible timesharing system) running on KA-10's with VM hacked into the hardware by MIT. MIT TECO was written in MIDAS, an MIT assembler for the PDP-10. rms was supporting MIT TECO at the time ('72? '73?). I use MIT TECO to differentiate it from the Digital product, TECO, written in DEC's assembler, MACRO. DEC TECO had no chance of giving birth to emacs.
jr@bbn.com (John Robinson) (01/03/90)
In article <6427@wpi.wpi.edu>, aej@wpi (Allan E Johannesen) writes: >emacs was originally written in MIT TECO under ITS (the incompatible >timesharing system) running on KA-10's with VM hacked into the >hardware by MIT. MIT TECO was written in MIDAS, an MIT assembler for >the PDP-10. rms was supporting MIT TECO at the time ('72? '73?). > >I use MIT TECO to differentiate it from the Digital product, TECO, >written in DEC's assembler, MACRO. DEC TECO had no chance of giving >birth to emacs. That is right so far. I think MIDAS and TECO both predate the PDP-10, actually. MIDAS was a general-purpose assembler; you could get it to assemble anything. I used both on the PDP-1D at BBN when I first started here; MIDAS was used to assemble programs for the PDP-1, Honeywell 316/516 (i.e. Arpanet IMP), and Lockheed SUE (Arpanet Pluribus IMP). Also, recall that before the PDP-10 DEC was a hardware company. TECO probably originated in DECUS before becoming the DEC Editor for the PDP-10. I don't know the earlier history of that strain. MIT's hardware included a PDP-6 before DEC did the PDP-10. RMS indeed did a lot of things to ITS TECO in the process of making the original EMACS. Essentially, he made it programmable (as opposed to "capable of executing keyboard macros", which was essentially all that TECO did). It is hard, at this point, to say which things were TECO and which were EMACS; they grew up together through the mid-70's. I wonder if this belongs in alt.folklore.computers ... -- /jr, nee John Robinson Life did not take over the globe by combat, jr@bbn.com or bbn!jr but by networking -- Lynn Margulis
mike@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU (Mike Haertel) (01/03/90)
In article <1372@sunquest.UUCP> terry@sunquest.UUCP (Terry Friedrichsen) writes: >In article <4331@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi>, tml@hemuli.atk.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist) writes: >> (wasn't >> the PDP-10 TECO written in something called MIDAS?) >Nope. Got a listing right here in front of me; good old DEC-10 assembler >(MACRO-10). Of course, this is version 23 or so. Now maybe the ORIGINAL >version was done in something other than MACRO-10. But we're off the >comp.emacs track here ... MIDAS was the name of the PDP-10 assembler used under ITS. I once read the MIT TECO source (version 162 I think, probably the very last version ever (at least on AI)). It was written for MIDAS. After the first screen or so of comments it was in ALL CAPS. Argh. I don't know how similar MIDAS is to MACRO-10; I think it uses the same opcode names and addressing mode syntax, but provides additional macro capabilities. -- Mike Haertel <mike@ai.mit.edu> "Of course, we have to keep in mind that this year's Killer Micro is next year's Lawn Sprinkler Controller . . ." -- Eugene Brooks