NEVILLE%umass-cs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa (Neville D. Newman) (04/24/86)
In all the postings about how BLITs are the answer to the world's windowing problems, nobody has pointed out some of its definite shortcomings... It has an all metal case, to the tune of almost 60 pounds. It has no automatic screen-turn-off, so you keep reaching for the intensity knob at the end of the day. Turning it off loses downloaded software. Just try to get good technical help from AT&T Teletype for them. i dare you. If hardware is your only problem, you *may* have a (slim) chance. If you want to use them as intended, you probably need to write programs to download to the BLIT. For this, you need the DMD compiler and library package. To get this, you either convince AT&T to give you a donation or you pay major $$$ for it. (Ours was a donation along with other equipment.) Many features are documented incorrectly (try to get keyboard repeat without running under layers), and many of the more useful functions will only work under layers even they could provide needed functionality outside of layers. ----- On the other hand, you can do a lot of nice stuff with them. We run a half- dozen of ours on a MicroVAX II running Ultrix, and have written a downloaded terminal emulator for it that is a BIG superset of a Bitgraph (actually, it emulates our idea of what the world's most incredible graphics/ascii terminal would be like). We also have a program that lets it emulate a Symbolics LGP for previewing TeX/LaTeX/etc. Looks terrific! All this code runs directly on the BLIT, not on the MicroVAX. A great demo is to hook one up to your 3Bx, start up layers, run several of the packaged demo programs, and WHILE THE DEMOS ARE RUNNING unplug the terminal line from the BLIT. Everything keeps going, it is all really running on the BLIT. All the above mentioned software is for private use and is NOT distributed. -neville
moss@BRL.ARPA (Gary S. Moss (SLCBR-VLD-V)) (04/24/86)
Neville writes... < In all the postings about how BLITs are the answer to the world's windowing < problems, nobody has pointed out some of its definite shortcomings... I think "definite" is a strong word here, assuming you mean Teletype 5620s. < It has an all metal case, to the tune of almost 60 pounds. Given that it is not a portable terminal, I would rather it be encased in metal. There is too much plastic in this world already, think of it as armor, besides the case itself probably only accounts for 5 lbs. or so. < It has no automatic screen-turn-off, so you keep reaching for the < intensity knob at the end of the day. Please, please, don't adopt the idiocy of Tektronics and their automatic screen dimming, I hate that. It is so annoying to be staring at a screen and have it fade out on you, besides the intensity knob is right under the screen, you don't have to reach for it. < ... Turning it off loses downloaded software. What would you expect? Do you want your program to run on a processor with no power? Do you expect programs loaded in RAM to stay there without power? Try powering down the host computer and see if it does any better. < Just try to get good technical help from AT&T Teletype for them. i dare you. < If hardware is your only problem, you *may* have a (slim) chance. This is probably a justified criticism. < Many features are documented incorrectly (try to get keyboard repeat without < running under layers), and many of the more useful functions will < only work under layers even they could provide needed functionality < outside of layers. I get keyboard repeat fine when not in layers mode, what other functions are you talking about, besides the windows of course? -moss
NEVILLE%umass-cs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa (Neville D. Newman) (04/26/86)
<From: "Gary S. Moss (SLCBR-VLD-V)" <moss@BRL.ARPA> .... < < It has no automatic screen-turn-off, so you keep reaching for the < < intensity knob at the end of the day. <Please, please, don't adopt the idiocy of Tektronics and their automatic <screen dimming, I hate that. It is so annoying to be staring at a screen and <have it fade out on you, besides the intensity knob is right under the screen <you don't have to reach for it. i've not used a Tectronics terminal, but i have used many others that use delays of between 15 and 30 minutes. If the i/o to the host has been idle and the mouse/keyboard idle as well, i would like to have the phosphor saved for me. Even some low-cost (~$500) terminals make this configurable, so you can disable it or set the timeout. < < ... Turning it off loses downloaded software. <What would you expect? Do you want your program to run on a processor with no <power? Do you expect programs loaded in RAM to stay there without power? Try <powering down the host computer and see if it does any better. Sorry. i should have been clearer... read "You don't want to turn it off, of course, because that loses your downloaded software." < < Just try to get good technical help from AT&T Teletype for them. i dare you. < < If hardware is your only problem, you *may* have a (slim) chance. <This is probably a justified criticism. < < Many features are documented incorrectly (try to get keyboard repeat without < < running under layers), and many of the more useful functions will < < only work under layers even they could provide needed functionality < < outside of layers. <I get keyboard repeat fine when not in layers mode, what other functions <are you talking about, besides the windows of course? <-moss Please let us know how you do that. Even example code provided by AT&T can not get keyboard repeat to work. Perhaps you mean in "native 5620" mode - i mean from a program running on the BLIT (Teletype DMD 5620). -neville
friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) (04/30/86)
In article <256@brl-smoke.ARPA> moss@BRL.ARPA (Gary S. Moss (SLCBR-VLD-V)) writes: >Neville writes... > < ... Turning it off loses downloaded software. >What would you expect? Do you want your program to run on a processor with no >power? Do you expect programs loaded in RAM to stay there without power? Try >powering down the host computer and see if it does any better. I *think* what he is really complaining about is the need to download the software *every* time you turn th system on, this takes *time*. It would be nice to just turn the BLIT on and have it work, just like an ordinary terminal. At least the host computer has a disk drive to keep the programs on-line when you power it down. What I would like to see is a BLIT with a bubble memory or battery-powered static RAM or something like that which retained the downloaded software when the power is turned off. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!friesen ARPA: ??
gwyn@brl-smoke.ARPA (Doug Gwyn ) (05/03/86)
In article <1139@psivax.UUCP> friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) writes: > I *think* what he is really complaining about is the need to >download the software *every* time you turn th system on, this takes >*time*. It would be nice to just turn the BLIT on and have it work, >just like an ordinary terminal. At least the host computer has a disk >drive to keep the programs on-line when you power it down. What I >would like to see is a BLIT with a bubble memory or battery-powered >static RAM or something like that which retained the downloaded >software when the power is turned off. The lack of agreement about this point is probably due to different ideas about the right way to use a Blit/DMD. The usual use requires cooperation from the host that would be difficult or impossible to re-establish once the communication link is broken. Neville's application seems to be a BitGraph emulator, and other suggestions have sounded much like Sun workstations. I think we would all agree that for such applications, terminal-resident code is an advantage. (In fact, the 8;7;5 firmware upgrade provided the DMD with layersys in ROM; it used to be downloaded when starting layers mode.) Some of us simply do not think the DMD is best used as a BitGraph or Sun. P.S. AT&T and/or Teletype have made it very hard to develop stand- alone applications of that kind, since they refuse to provide source code for either "layersys" or the resident terminal ROM. This is very short-sighted on their part; we had an application that would have resulted in acquisition of many more DMDs than we already have, except we couldn't obtain adequate information and so we abandoned the idea of using DMDs for the project. I suspect sales to the BitGraph emulator folks are down, too.