Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM (02/26/91)
Bob Chassell, Treasurer of the Free Software Foundation, informs me that the FSF has shipped about 30,000 GNU Emacs manuals in the past five years, and recently has been averaging 800 manuals per month! Also ISBN book numbers are being / have been introduced. -- Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM Naperville IL USA +1 708-979-6364
stiller@cs.jhu.edu (Lewis Stiller) (02/26/91)
In article <DANJ1.91Feb25191827@cbnewse.ATT.COM> Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM writes: >Bob Chassell, Treasurer of the Free Software Foundation, informs me >that the FSF has shipped about 30,000 GNU Emacs manuals in the past >five years, and recently has been averaging 800 manuals per month! >Also ISBN book numbers are being / have been introduced. >-- >Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM Naperville IL USA +1 708-979-6364 I recommend the GNU emacs manual very highly. It might seem counterintuitive, since it is on-line, but a well-formatted, well-bound and well-designed at-hand manual such as that one turns out to be a big timesaver: in fact my lab mates are frequently consulting it as well. It used to be really cheap too. I have a few quibbles with the design (e.g., multiple indexes), but, again, I recommend this to all emacs users and potential emacs users. Lewis Stiller Department of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University
hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) (02/28/91)
In article <stiller.667537884@newton.cs.jhu.edu> stiller@cs.jhu.edu (Lewis Stiller) writes: > > I recommend the GNU emacs manual very highly. It might seem > counterintuitive, since it is on-line, but a well-formatted, > well-bound and well-designed at-hand manual such as that one turns out to be > a big timesaver: in fact my lab mates are frequently consulting it as > well. It used to be really cheap too. I have a few quibbles with the > design (e.g., multiple indexes), but, again, I recommend this to all > emacs users and potential emacs users. > > Lewis Stiller > Department of Computer Science > Johns Hopkins University And I have exactly the opposite viewpoint. I DON'T recommend the manual. Without knowing the name of exactly the function you want, it is impossible to look it up in the index. Yes, you can look up general subjects, go to that section and then troll through the whole section until you find what you want, but I think that a better method is to use M-x apropos followed by Info to get more specific information on the topic. Since functions in Emacs generally have a word somewhere in the function name which is descriptive of what you want, you will get everything containing it, even if it is in the middle of the function name. In the index to the printed manual, if it is not in the beginning, you are out of luck. -- ----- Dion Hollenbeck (619) 455-5590 x2814 Megatek Corporation, 9645 Scranton Road, San Diego, CA 92121 uunet!megatek!hollen or hollen@megatek.uucp
liberte@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Daniel LaLiberte) (02/28/91)
> From: hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) > I DON'T recommend the manual. Without knowing the name of exactly > the function you want, it is impossible to look it up in the index. I agree it is difficult to look things up in the user manual. That is why I created that permuted index for the elisp manual. It is a few pages longer, but I am pretty much guaranteed to find what I am looking for with one lookup. Someone needs to go through the user manual adding index entries, and then replace the standard index with a combined, permuted index. I volunteer to do the latter if others will do the former. Dan LaLiberte National Center for Supercomputing Applications liberte@ncsa.uiuc.edu
src@scuzzy.in-berlin.de (Heiko Blume) (02/28/91)
hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >In article <stiller.667537884@newton.cs.jhu.edu> stiller@cs.jhu.edu (Lewis Stiller) writes: >> >> I recommend the GNU emacs manual very highly. >And I have exactly the opposite viewpoint. I DON'T recommend the >manual. Without knowing the name of exactly the function you want, >it is impossible to look it up in the index. sounds like it needs an additional *permuted* index? -- Heiko Blume <-+-> src@scuzzy.in-berlin.de <-+-> (+49 30) 691 88 93 public UNIX source archive [HST V.42bis]: scuzzy Any ACU,f 38400 6919520 gin:--gin: nuucp sword: nuucp uucp scuzzy!/src/README /your/home
tim@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Tim Bradshaw) (02/28/91)
>>>>> On 26 Feb 91 01:18:33 GMT, Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM said: > Bob Chassell, Treasurer of the Free Software Foundation, informs me > that the FSF has shipped about 30,000 GNU Emacs manuals in the past > five years, and recently has been averaging 800 manuals per month! > Also ISBN book numbers are being / have been introduced. That's a lot! I reckon that must mean something like 100,000 serious users of Emacs, possibly rather more, but less than a million. Does anyone know how many copies <some random word-processor> ships over its life? how about <random commercial Unix editor/word-processor excluding stuff shipped with Unix (vi, ed &c)>? --tim Tim Bradshaw. Internet: tim%ed.cstr@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!cstr!tim JANET: tim@uk.ac.ed.cstr "...wizzards & inchanters..."
apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) (03/01/91)
hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: >Without knowing the name of exactly the function you want, >it is impossible to look it up in the index. [...] Since functions >in Emacs generally have a word somewhere in the function name >which is descriptive of what you want [...] This sounds like a job for an inverted index. like a job for an inverted 1 index. This sounds This sounds like a job for an 1 inverted index. index. This sounds like a 1 job for an inverted an inverted index. This 1 sounds like a job for for an inverted index. 1 This sounds like a job Read down the '1' column -- that's the page number where a sentence appears which contains the word to the right of the page number. The sentence itself surrounds the page number (wrapping at the end of the line) for context, so you know which of those instances of the word you're looking for is interesting to you. The BSD 4.1 (at least) documentation has one of these based on the one-sentence description of each thing there's a man page for. (That sentence is the output of apropos, too). It's relatively easy to generate algorithmically. For Emacs, of course, you'd use dashes in the command name as word breaks, but you can also use the text of the help message for each command. An inverted index is not exactly concise, and at one line per citation they run to several pages, but they're immensely valuable for information like this. Essentially, it *is* apropos, in printed form. Just trying to be helpful... ============================================ Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt
lark@greylock.tivoli.com (Lar Kaufman) (03/02/91)
In article <1991Feb28.133858.3648@scuzzy.in-berlin.de>, src@scuzzy.in-berlin.de (Heiko Blume) writes: > hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck) writes: > >In article <stiller.667537884@newton.cs.jhu.edu> stiller@cs.jhu.edu (Lewis Stiller) writes: > >> I recommend the GNU emacs manual very highly. > >And I have exactly the opposite viewpoint. I DON'T recommend the > >manual. Without knowing the name of exactly the function you want, > >it is impossible to look it up in the index. > > sounds like it needs an additional *permuted* index? That would help. There is a problem with terminology, though, that makes indexing of limited use. If you don't know what to look for specificall (not just the function name, but the specific topic in the terms used in the book) you can get stuck. If you want an example of beautiful documentation, look at the manuals for the Quicken product (PC based). Beautifully done in all regards, and suitable for use by a broad audience. Lar Kaufman I would feel more optimistic about a bright future (voice) 512-794-9070 for man if he spent less time proving that he can (fax) 512-794-0623 outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness lark@tivoli.com and respecting her seniority. - - E.B. White
mhoffos@janus.mtroyal.ab.ca (03/04/91)
In article <TIM.91Feb28152445@kahlo.cstr.ed.ac.uk>, tim@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Tim Bradshaw) writes: >>>>>> On 26 Feb 91 01:18:33 GMT, Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM said: > > [...] > That's a lot! I reckon that must mean something like 100,000 serious > users of Emacs, possibly rather more, but less than a million. Does > anyone know how many copies <some random word-processor> ships over > its life? how about <random commercial Unix editor/word-processor > excluding stuff shipped with Unix (vi, ed &c)>? > > --tim > Tim Bradshaw. Internet: tim%ed.cstr@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk > UUCP: ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!cstr!tim JANET: tim@uk.ac.ed.cstr > "...wizzards & inchanters..." According to the latest WordPerfect Report, they (WordPerfect) are shipping 200 000 copies a month world-wide, which represents (according to the figures I have seen) about 66% of the DOS word-processer market. Last year, they had $459 Million in sales. Last year, they also reached a huge milestone: cumulative sales of $1 billion. Remeber this too: WordPerfect exists for *many* different platforms, including the Mac, the Amiga, the Atari ST, UNIX V/386, System 370, the NeXT, the Data General, etc. These are in my opinion staggering numbers. I guess it is not that surprising why WordPerfect is sysonymous with word processing! I have no connection with WP, etc. etc. Mike Hoffos -- mhoffos@janus.mtroyal.ab.ca (Mount Royal College is a community college in Calgary, Alberta) Disclaimer: Mount Royal College doesn't speak for me, and I *certainly* don't speak for it.