[comp.ai] Cultural Impact on Word Ordering in any Language

jad@dayton.UUCP (John A. Deters) (01/19/88)

You may be on the right track comparing word ordering
to the agricultural origins of the people.  It may be based more
on the stability (or relative mobility) of the people who speak
it, and the Japanese, being primarily agricultural, have been very
stable, location-wise.  The English (Germanic) peoples, being
originally hunters, were substantially more mobile.  The 
Japanese culture has been in place for many thousands
of years, and they have not left a very small geographic location.
Their language has stabilized.  English, French, and Russian,
on the other hand, have derived from a more mobile people who were
moved about substantially due to wars, invasions, etc.
In English, we all know that the verbs can come almost anywhere.
In French, also, the verb can come between the subject and the object.  
The French language is a Latin-based language somewhat similar to
English, and the culture is roughly the same age.  Modern
Russian (from what I could glean from a friend) also has a
flexible structure allowing the verb to come anyplace in a
sentence, and it too came from a mobile culture.  My friend
also brought up an interesting point from this -- it would
be nice to hear from someone who knows Hebrew, the language of
the "race of wanderers".  It might be an answer in this
mobile language theory, and to find out what the sentence structure
is like in that language would prove interesting.

P.S.  Any racial references are not* to be construed as slurs!

-- 
-john deters                     Dayton Hudson Department Store Company
uucp:  rutgers!dayton!jad        MIS 1060/700 on the Mall/Mpls, MN  55402
ARTHUR:        "A scratch?  Your arm's off!"
BLACK KNIGHT:  "It's only a flesh wound."

tanner@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mike Tanner) (01/20/88)

It is probably an error to consider English, German, or any people as
being originally hunters.  What is meant by "originally"?  In historic
times Europe has been agricultural.  In prehistoric times, i.e.,
something like 20,000 years ago or more, the people of Europe were
probably hunter-gatherers.  In hunter-gatherer societies only about
one-third of the food comes from meat (hunting), the rest is gathered
by women.  Hunting is almost never done by women, for many very good
reasons.  But women were the child-rearers, most likely the ones who
passed on language.

When half the people spend their lives walking around digging up roots
and picking berries, and everybody is raised (and probably learns
language) in that environment, I find it hard to believe that hunting
could very strongly influence language.  Though you might be able to
argue that gathering is still more active than agriculture, requiring
more emphatic language, etc.

However, the claim that Japan has "always" been agrarian is also
probably false.  At least in the relevant time-span.  Japan has not
been agrarian for more than 10,000 years or so, about the same as
Europe.

The influences on the development of language are many and complex.
But the hunting-agriculture explanation for the differences between
English and Japanese is a red-herring.  Based on the false assumption
that Europeans were primarily hunters at one time and the false
assumption that Japan has had agriculture longer than Europe.

-- mike