@CSNET-RELAY.arpa,@tufts.csnet (07/11/86)
I administer the UN*X side of the academic computing facility here at Tufts University. I am currently running two VAX 780's under 4.2BSD. The arrival of 4.3BSD has prompted my management to take a look at alternates to the BSD UN*X. They keep returning to the topics: System V, Ultrix. I am interested in sources of information which might be useful in helping them to decide what to do. Is there a report comparing different UN*X systems that I might read? Books? What are your opinions? I am interested not only in functional differences, ie this system call vs that, but also in less well defined differences like availability of knowlegable personnel, corporate software support and its necessity, etc. How would you begin to decide which OS a university should run? If I receive enough interesting answers, I'll summarize and post, as others will surely be faced with the same sorts of questions from the same sorts of managers. Kevin Sullivan Sr. Systems Programmer Tufts University Medford, MA 02155 ARPA: kjs%tufts@CSNET-RELAY BITNET: kjs@tufts
D0430@PUCC.BITNET.UUCP (07/12/86)
In article <2123@brl-smoke.ARPA>, @CSNET-RELAY.arpa,@tufts.csnet:kjs@tufts.c (kjs) writes: > >I administer the UN*X side of the academic computing facility here at >Tufts University. I am currently running two VAX 780's under 4.2BSD. >The arrival of 4.3BSD has prompted my management to take a look at alternates >to the BSD UN*X.......... I have an application in which I had to make a lot of kernel modifications to Ultrix 1.1 on a uvaxII. The assurance that it was 'identical to 4.2' was just not so. DEC has done a lot work in various areas to make it more robust. For example: it writes partition tables on disks; the uda driver is a lot bigger and has much more error correction; it uses 4.3 inode caching. This latter fact caused two of my students several months of grief as they tried to install RFS. They succeeded but the difficulties were caused by these changes. I am, however, quite happy with it now. The modifications to run on the uvaxII were really cute--lots of brain damage in locore.s but the drivers and higher level kernel routines are virtually the same for uvaxII and bigger vaxen. The source is quite cheap to Universities. We made no use of DEC support. I don't know much about 1.2 or 4.3, but I was pleased with what I saw in 1.1.
rbj@icst-cmr.arpa (07/16/86)
I administer the UN*X side of the academic computing facility here at Tufts University. I am currently running two VAX 780's under 4.2BSD. The arrival of 4.3BSD has prompted my management to take a look at alternates to the BSD UN*X. They keep returning to the topics: System V, Ultrix. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 4.2 -> 4.3 should provide the least disruption and the most modern system. Your students are probably used to source as well. At least they're all UNIX. I am interested in sources of information which might be useful in helping them to decide what to do. Is there a report comparing different UN*X systems that I might read? Books? What are your opinions? There is a report comparing an old version of BSD (4.1?) with an old Version of System V (5.0?) (or is it SYS III?), but obviously you are interested in something more recent. I am interested not only in functional differences, ie this system call vs that, but also in less well defined differences like availability of knowlegable personnel, corporate software support and its necessity, etc. With System V, you probably won't be able to send this mail the same way and will be forced into using UUCP. BSD (and obviously ULTRIX) will allow you local networking on an ethernet cable, thereby creating your own version of an ARPAnet, even if you don't have an IMP. 4.3 has been enhanced quite a bit and is faster. I find support relatively unnecessary, especially in a University environment. You should find lots of gurus in Beantown. How would you begin to decide which OS a university should run? If I receive enough interesting answers, I'll summarize and post, as others will surely be faced with the same sorts of questions from the same sorts of managers. I wouldn't give TPC the satisfaction. Switching from BSD to System V is like jumping from the NFL into the USFL. Kevin Sullivan Sr. Systems Programmer Tufts University Medford, MA 02155 ARPA: kjs%tufts@CSNET-RELAY BITNET: kjs@tufts Any relation to the Pats owners? (Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa> Was my SOY LOAF left out in th'RAIN? It tastes REAL GOOD!!
escott@uci-icsa.arpa (07/18/86)
I think all of this should have gone to info-unix, but a reply is a reply... > I administer the UN*X side of the academic computing facility > here at Tufts University. I am currently running two VAX 780's > under 4.2BSD. The arrival of 4.3BSD has prompted my management > to take a look at alternates to the BSD UN*X. They keep You mean, you *have* 4.3BSD and you're thinking of going to something else? Or by "arrival" do you mean something like "announcement"? And if you *do* have 4.3, I'd like to know how you got it, unless you're a Beta site, in which case I already know. By the way, it seems to me that I saw a "copy" (photocopy) of the 4.3 distribution tape at Usenix. Well, we just called Berkeley and were told that 4.3 is still "not ready for distribution". Sigh. > I am interested not only in functional differences, ie this > system call vs that, but also in less well defined differences > like availability of knowlegable personnel, corporate software > support and its necessity, etc. > > I find support relatively unnecessary, especially in a University > environment. You should find lots of gurus in Beantown. Beantown!? > > How would you begin to decide which OS a university should > run? If I receive enough interesting answers, I'll summarize > and post, as others will surely be faced with the same sorts > of questions from the same sorts of managers. > I have an idea, Kevin. Why don't you get on 128 and drop by Brandeis and see what they think? They've been using UNIX since before I was an undergraduate there. I think you'll find that BSD is the way to go in a university environment, for the reasons rbj suggests. I found that each class had a couple of hackers, often roommates, who were willing to take on system support. Heck, we did it for $3.65 an hour at Brandeis! And that included cleaning the terminals and vacuuming the labs!! > > Kevin Sullivan Sr. Systems Programmer > Tufts University Medford, MA 02155 > ARPA: kjs%tufts@CSNET-RELAY BITNET: kjs@tufts > > Any relation to the Pats owners? If so, a few other Brandeis alumni and myself would like to talk to you about ruining a little party we had last January !! > > (Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa> > Was my SOY LOAF left out in th'RAIN? It tastes REAL GOOD!! +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ E. Scott Menter Internet: escott@ics.uci.edu UCI Systems Support Group UUCP: ...!ucbvax!ucivax!escott It was a JOKE!! Get it?? I was receiving messages from DAVID LETTERMAN!! YOW!! [zippy quote courtesy of GNU Emacs "yow" in Jim's honor] +------------------------------------------------------------------------+
rbj@ICST-CMR.arpa (07/18/86)
From escott@ICS.UCI.EDU Thu Jul 17 16:00:07 1986 Received: from ICS.UCI.EDU (ics.uci.edu.ARPA) by icst-cmr.ARPA (4.12/4.7) id AA11197; Thu, 17 Jul 86 15:58:57 edt Message-Id: <8607171958.AA11197@icst-cmr.ARPA> Received: from localhost by ICS.UCI.EDU id a017055; 17 Jul 86 12:53 PDT To: Root Boy Jim <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa> Cc: kjs <@csnet-relay.arpa,@tufts.CSNET:kjs@tufts.CSNET>, unix-wizards@brl.arpa Cc: escott@ICS.UCI.EDU Subject: Re: BSD vs ULTRIX vs SysV In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 15 Jul 86 17:15:50 edt. <8607152115.AA04743@icst-cmr.ARPA> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 86 12:52:00 -0800 From: Scott Menter <escott@ICS.UCI.EDU> I think all of this should have gone to info-unix, but a reply is a reply... OK, I'll send it there too. > I administer the UN*X side of the academic computing facility > here at Tufts University. I am currently running two VAX 780's > under 4.2BSD. The arrival of 4.3BSD has prompted my management > to take a look at alternates to the BSD UN*X. They keep You mean, you *have* 4.3BSD and you're thinking of going to something else? Or by "arrival" do you mean something like "announcement"? And if you *do* have 4.3, I'd like to know how you got it, unless you're a Beta site, in which case I already know. By the way, it seems to me that I saw a "copy" (photocopy) of the 4.3 distribution tape at Usenix. Well, we just called Berkeley and were told that 4.3 is still "not ready for distribution". Sigh. Well, supposedly it *is* ready for distribution, but we ain't got it neither. Do any other gummint sites have it either (besides the betas)? > I find support relatively unnecessary, especially in a University > environment. You should find lots of gurus in Beantown. Beantown!? Boston. As in Boston baked beans. Common nickname. Yes, I know that Tufts is in Sommerville. Been there oncest or twicest. > How would you begin to decide which OS a university should > run? If I receive enough interesting answers, I'll summarize > and post, as others will surely be faced with the same sorts > of questions from the same sorts of managers. I have an idea, Kevin. Why don't you get on 128 and drop by Brandeis and see what they think? They've been using UNIX since before I was an undergraduate there. I think you'll find that BSD is the way to go in a university environment, for the reasons rbj suggests. I found that each class had a couple of hackers, often roommates, who were willing to take on system support. Heck, we did it for $3.65 an hour at Brandeis! And that included cleaning the terminals and vacuuming the labs!! But you didn't do windows, right? :-) > Kevin Sullivan Sr. Systems Programmer > Tufts University Medford, MA 02155 > ARPA: kjs%tufts@CSNET-RELAY BITNET: kjs@tufts > > Any relation to the Pats owners? If so, a few other Brandeis alumni and myself would like to talk to you about ruining a little party we had last January !! The same fate befell the Cowboys. Sigh. > (Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa> > Was my SOY LOAF left out in th'RAIN? It tastes REAL GOOD!! +----------------------------------------------------------------+ E. Scott Menter Internet: escott@ics.uci.edu UCI Systems Support Group UUCP: ...!ucbvax!ucivax!escott It was a JOKE!! Get it?? I was receiving messages from DAVID LETTERMAN!! YOW!! [zippy quote courtesy of GNU Emacs "yow" in Jim's honor] +----------------------------------------------------------------+ (Root Boy) Jim Cottrell <rbj@icst-cmr.arpa> Hold the MAYO & pass the COSMIC AWARENESS...
ron@BRL.ARPA (Ron Natalie) (07/19/86)
Sommerville? That hell hole. Tufts is in MEDFORD!