[comp.ai] Artificial Intelligence and Amateurs

peru@soleil.UUCP (Dave Peru) (11/22/88)

>}For all of you that sent me hate mail, I found your racial and ethnic
>}bigotry to be quite humorous. ...

In message <7797@dasys1.UUCP> G Fitch writes:

>This is pretty disturbing, actually.  We have people reading this
>newsgroup who feel compelled to write racist hate mail to a poster
>who annoys them?  I wonder how much of it there is.  Maybe Dave
>Peru should publish some of it.  (The id's can be left off for the
>benefit of those who feel delicate about publishing mail.)

When I was younger, I studied Judo for seven years.  One of the things they
teach you is that when someone is running straight at you, you step aside.

When I read my mail and find colorful expletives, that my views are
"bullshit", I simply delete these messages without reading further.
If I do not "step aside", I would eventually respond, and I do not want
to start any mail wars.

Someone made a snide remark in reference to the "Bhagavad-Gita".  I have never
read this document.  Someone else said, "you should go back to your own
country".

I was born in a small town in New Jersey, USA.  I grew up near a toxic waste
site.  I have blond hair and green eyes.

(side note:                                                                 )
(                                                                           )
(When I finished my freshmen year, I got a summer job at AT&T.  Boy, were   )
(they sure surprised to find out I was not a minority.  I was the only white)
(male that worked there that summer.  I sure learned the meaning of minority)
(at the initial meeting of all the summer students, blond hair really stands)
(out in a crowd.   However, I do support Affirmative Action.                )

>>I've studied AI for a long time, 
>Sorry, I thought you were an amateur.  What was your thesis on?  
>Were you at SAIL or MIT?  Xerox PARC, maybe?

In order to prevent right-brain atrophy, I do most of my research in
aerobics class.  There's nothing quite like analyzing a 200 pound person
trying to be graceful (myself).

I know this may sound hard to believe, this being America and everything,
but I simply could not afford to go to graduate school.  My mother took out
loans for my B.S. degree and she owed back taxes to the local government.  At
this point, I became a socialist, I could not let my mother bear the burden
of my education alone (I paid off 2 out of 3 loans, I might go back to school
next year, or the year after next).

Someone else commented, "your behavior in comp.ai is contemptible, do
you realize who reads this group.  I've seen Marvin Minsky post entries."
That's not the exact quote, but you get the idea.  I responded, "had
I known, I would not have made any entries at all."

I seemed to have cracked open a hornet's nest with my definition of
intelligence.  There must have been 50 responses, too many for me to
respond to immediately.  I need time to collect my thoughts and go over
the responses.  I also just started reading Marvin Minsky's book, he seems
to deal with paradoxes.  I also have to get to the library to catch up on
CS journals.  When GE bought RCA, they laid off the other division that
worked here and closed the technical library.  As far as my knowledge of AI
goes, I am simply an amateur; I do it just for the love of it.

One point of view is that human beings are basically rational creatures that
occasional act irrational.  The other point of view is that human beings
are basically irrational creatures that occasional act rational.
I think there's equal evidence for both points of view.  I find arguing
both points of view to be educational.  Some of you rational guys/gals 
out there should try the other side once in a while, and vise-versa.

Some of my ideas may be irrational, okay, so what.  The idea "the big-bang
is the result of a black-hole from another universe" was burned at the
stake by the Church-of-modern-thought.  I've been flamed so much, it may
take some time for my hair to grow back.  Have you ever smelled burning hair?

Most of what I say is probably wrong.  Well, the only way I learn is by
making mistakes, but then again, I could be mistaken.

Are brains supposed to have thoughts like "have you ever thought
about what the brain is doing between thoughts?"?  My girlfriend was
visibly upset when I told her this, she has several times since then
expressed concerned about my mental health.  I keep telling her I'm normal.

Speaking of irrationality, on the way to work in the summer, the local radio
station gives the beach report.  In addition to the day's tanning index, they
now give the hypodermic syringe count.  Apparently, individual isolationism
is more important than tribe survival.  To me, this seems irrational.

I think the fact that we exist at all is a bit irrational.

In reference to "people are too emotional to be objective", the Japanese have
a saying, "The first person that raises their voice in an argument, loses."

Are amateurs allowed to make entries on comp.ai ???

marty@homxc.UUCP (M.B.BRILLIANT) (11/23/88)

In article <496@soleil.UUCP>, peru@soleil.UUCP (Dave Peru) writes:
> .....
> When I read my mail and find colorful expletives, that my views are
> "bullshit", I simply delete these messages without reading further.

``Bullshit'' is a technical term I learned decades ago in sophomore
philosophy, where I was frequently shot down for expressing objections
before I understood the logic of the exposition.  I finally learned
that sincerity is no substitute for logic.

Bullshit is a train of thought that is neither right nor wrong, because
it is imprecisely organized and expressed.  It is characterized by
statements made without supporting argument or authority, or vaguely
supported by irrelevant references.  Bullshit is hard to deal with in a
public forum because it must first be defined before it can be refuted.

Apologies to Dave Peru if he misunderstood.  I assumed he would know
what I meant by ``bullshit,'' but I guess the term is not so widely
used as I thought it was.  Dave's propositions may have merit.  But
they were put forth as logically unrelated, unsupported statements that
could be given neither approval nor rebuttal without further
definition, and his second article, intended to make his position
clearer, seemed only to add more unsupported statements.

One problem is that the original article was cross-posted to comp.ai
and talk.philosophy.misc, and all followups, regardless of where they
originated, have been going to the same two newsgroups.  I thought
comp.ai was for discussions of artificial intelligence, however you
choose to define it, while talk.philosophy.misc was more suitable for
the exposition, redefinition, and refutation of what I technically call
``bullshit.''  I hoped that by replying by mail I could keep comp.ai
from being flooded, but I was wrong.

M. B. Brilliant					Marty
AT&T-BL HO 3D-520	(201) 949-1858		Home (201) 946-8147
Holmdel, NJ 07733	att!houdi!marty1

Disclaimer: Opinions stated herein are mine unless and until my employer
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