bwk@mbunix.mitre.org (Barry W. Kort) (03/08/89)
In article <18287@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> dave@cogsci.indiana.edu (David Chalmers) writes: > Can we talk about something else now? Good idea, Dave. Let's open the floor for nominations. I propose a discussion on the persuasive power of such curious lines of reasoning as "proof by vigorous assertion", and the effectivenes of such rhetorical techniques as "invective utterance." I wonder if there is a superior method of response besides satire or silent contempt. Remember, the goal of the dialectic process is convergence toward durable and timeless truths, with preservation of dignity as a subordinate goal. Or not. --Barry Kort "I don't entertain other people's ideas. Their ideas entertain me."
krazy@claris.com (Jeff Erickson) (03/10/89)
From article <46028@linus.UUCP>, by bwk@mbunix.mitre.org (Barry W. Kort): > In article <18287@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> dave@cogsci.indiana.edu > (David Chalmers) writes: > > > Can we talk about something else now? > > Good idea, Dave. Let's open the floor for nominations. > > I propose a discussion on the persuasive power of such curious > lines of reasoning as "proof by vigorous assertion", and the > effectivenes of such rhetorical techniques as "invective utterance." > > I wonder if there is a superior method of response besides satire > or silent contempt. A few methods come to mind: PROOF BY INTUITIVE OBVIOUSNESS: "It's obvious to the most casual observer that..." PROOF BY DIVINE INSPIRATION: This method of proof is often supported by Vigorous Assertion. Also known as Proof by Invocation of Authority. Particularly effective if the person arguing is the authority invoked. PROOF BY THE QUESTION'S EXISTENCE: The idea is "If it weren't true, you wouldn't be asking me to prove it. QED." Not applicable in all situations. PROOF BY EXERCISE LEFT TO THE READER: Often invoked by textbooks. Also known as Proof by Graduate Student. Supported by Intuitive Obviousness and Invocation of Authority. PROOF BY EXAMPLE: "My dog's got no nose. (How's he smell?) Awful. Therefore, all dogs smell awful." PROOF BY SPACE/TIME CONSTRAINT: "I have a marvelous proof of this theorem, but unfortunately it's too large to fit in this small margin." Or, "I don't have time to go into the gory details right now, but..." Now that I think about it, all of these have been used in the Chinese Room argument already. Perhaps I should have stuck with silent contempt. "Trees don't fall in the forest when no one's around to hear them. Sometimes they just happen to be on the ground when you see them again." -- Jeff Erickson \ Internet: krazy@claris.com AppleLink: Erickson4 Claris Corporation \ UUCP: {ames,apple,portal,sun,voder}!claris!krazy 415/960-2693 \________________________________________________________ ____________________/ "I'm so heppy I'm mizzabil!"
dhw@itivax.iti.org (David H. West) (03/11/89)
In article <46028@linus.UUCP>, bwk@mbunix.mitre.org (Barry W. Kort) writes: > I propose a discussion on the persuasive power of such curious > lines of reasoning as "proof by vigorous assertion", and the > effectivenes of such rhetorical techniques as "invective utterance." > > I wonder if there is a superior method of response besides satire > or silent contempt. Vote for the creation of talk.philosophy.interminable, and then vote that the discussion be moved there. Or comp.ai.red-herrings (an entirely different kettle of fish). The previous set of topics (Chinese rooms, Turing Tests, Symbol Grounding) bears approximately the same relation to AI that Zeno's Paradox bears to automobile engineering. (Think about it.)