gls@odyssey.ATT.COM (g.l.sicherman) (03/11/89)
In article <2484@crete.cs.glasgow.ac.uk>, gilbert@cs.glasgow.ac.uk writes: > > So, the five dualisms: > 1) Platonic - i.e. forms versus temporal objects > 2) Descartian - including the 10c AI version > 3) Ethical - fact and value statements are not reducible to a > common form or means of verification > 4) Explanatory - human actions are not 'caused' like natural events, > they involve reasons and motives > 5) Epistemological - das ding is nicht das ding an sich Surely the dualism most relevant to A.I. is mind vs. body? The fundamental assumption of Frankensteinian A.I. is that a mind can exist without a body! See the second half of _Gestalt Therapy_ for a good catalogue of basic dualisms and what harm they do. -:- "Six bells by the dog watch." "I didn't know watches had bells," said Water Polo. "I didn't know dogs had watches," said Isfahani. "It must be an old sea dog." --American Pie -- Col. G. L. Sicherman gls@odyssey.att.COM
gilbert@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Gilbert Cockton) (03/15/89)
In article <820@odyssey.ATT.COM> gls@odyssey.ATT.COM (g.l.sicherman) writes: >Surely the dualism most relevant to A.I. is mind vs. body? The >fundamental assumption of Frankensteinian A.I. is that a mind can >exist without a body! > No, 3 and 4 are especially relevant as 3 may mean no machine ethics and 4 means no 'objective' data about outside-the-lab human behaviour. Like Skinner's behaviourists, AI is full of physics-envy types who wade in to the study of human behaviour with no idea of the limits of scientific method. Dualism 4 is highly relevant as an education to these types. Winograd and Flores was largely an exploration of the implications of Dualism 4 for 'intelligent' systems design. Note though that the book is very derivative, and there are much better commentaries on the standpoints discussed (go and ask a social theorist, or a philosopher if you can find one who isn't a full time logician). >> 3) Ethical - fact and value statements are not reducible to a >> common form or means of verification >> 4) Explanatory - human actions are not 'caused' like natural events, >> they involve reasons and motives >> >See the second half of _Gestalt Therapy_ for a good catalogue of basic >dualisms and what harm they do. fuller reference please? -- Gilbert Cockton, Department of Computing Science, The University, Glasgow gilbert@uk.ac.glasgow.cs <europe>!ukc!glasgow!gilbert
gls@odyssey.ATT.COM (g.l.sicherman) (03/21/89)
In article <2592@crete.cs.glasgow.ac.uk>, gilbert@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Gilbert Cockton) writes: > In article <820@odyssey.ATT.COM> gls@odyssey.ATT.COM (g.l.sicherman) writes: > >Surely the dualism most relevant to A.I. is mind vs. body? ... > > > No, 3 [Ethical] and 4 [Explanatory] are especially relevant as 3 may mean > no machine ethics and 4 means no 'objective' data about outside-the-lab > human behaviour. In this sense, I agree that dualities 3 and 4 matter consequentially and as motives for A.I. research. Science as a destroyer of guilt is carried out by scientists who want to destroy their guilt. I still think that if A.I. researchers understood all the consequences of "mind vs. body," they might lower their ambitions! > >See the second half of _Gestalt Therapy_ for a good catalogue of basic > >dualisms and what harm they do. > > fuller reference please? Frederick S. Perls, Ralph F. Hefferline, and Paul Goodman, _Gestalt Therapy: Excitement and Growth in the Human Personality,_ Bantam, New York (1977). The original edition was published by Julian Press in the 50's. The copyright is now held by Crown Publishers, Inc. I do not know what you would have to do to find a copy in Scotland! Gestalt therapy is a system of psychotherapy based on a novel inter- pretation of the principles of cognition. The book is in two parts. The first describes some exercises and the theory behind them. The second describes some of the theory's cultural and social implications. -:- "Professor! The computers are on strike!" "What? How dare they!" [Throws window open.] Mechanical voices: "More ... input! ... Less ... output!" -- Col. G. L. Sicherman gls@odyssey.att.COM