hathi@colima.CWRU.EDU (Kamal Hathi) (07/28/89)
I am looking to buy a machine for expert system development in an corporate environment. A LISP machine may not be appropriate and hence I was considering an UNIX workstation which could run a good LISP environment and a decent shell. I would like some recommendations on which machine to buy. The budget is going to be around $20,000. What are your opinions regarding the SUN 386i ?? I a considering this one actively. Please post the replies on the net, or EVEN BETTER EMAIL DIRECTLY at: hathi@cwcais.cwru.edu or hathi@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu Thanks a lot. Kamal Hathi.
jps@cat.cmu.edu (James Salsman) (07/29/89)
In article <442@cwjcc.CWRU.Edu> hathi@colima.UUCP (Kamal Hathi) writes: > I am looking to buy a machine for expert system development in an > corporate environment. I wish people would say what kind of ES they want to write so those of us that don't have real jobs can figure out effective methods, point people to the appropriate literature, and research new ways to do what is wanted. How can a University prepare engineers for effectiveness in industry and commerce if industry and commerce don't say what they would like an engineer to know? > A LISP machine may not be appropriate and hence I was considering an > UNIX workstation which could run a good LISP environment and a decent > shell. What do you mean by "decent shell?" And if you could find a "decent shell," why would you need Lisp? > I would like some recommendations on which machine to buy. The budget is > going to be around $20,000. Who told you you had to do ES development in Lisp? Lisp is a good teaching language for AI, but it's as slow as a dog for finished systems unless you can afford a Lisp Machine -- and you can't. Don't even think about Lispm coprocessor boards unless you enjoy working with multiple personality disorder in hardware. > What are your opinions regarding the SUN 386i ?? I a considering > this one actively. A glorified PC. You'll spend less money on hardware and gain valuable experience if you swallow your pride and develop for a regular old PC. For that kind of hardware, C compilers have the best development environments these days. (PC C development environs are much nicer than Unix's unless you are surrounded by gurus and grad students.) The old 640K memory limitation is a thing of the past with all the cool extended memory boards and a C with a malloc that knows about EMS. If you need a higher-level symbol system, there are two options. (1) Backward chaining with Prolog (Borland makes a cool PC Prolog with a development environment that is a bit crouded but managable), and (2) Forward Chaining with production systems (OPS-83 is from around here, it's development environment is too sparse, IMHO, but the code is lightning fast.) If you aren't into batch coding, the Mac II can run some really neat knowledge engineering shells like Nexpert, Knowledge Foo, etc., but if you use them you are stuck with their interface. Sometimes it's a problem, especially with the freaked out obtrusive-user-interface-technology in some of the more expensive products. If the demo screen print looks too good to be true, it is probably worse than you could ever imagine. Get the manual before you buy. In the long run, Macs are a lot less costly than Unix boxes (especially in set-up time), and the same software for Macs cost less than for Unix. The Mac/PC price differential has reached a competitive equilibrium. (You get what you pay for.) The only reason that you would need Unix is for VM, and if you need more than 5 megs RAM, I doubt you'll get far with $20K. :James Disclaimer: I don't speak for the university. Neither do I write, type, sing, or sign for the University. -- :James P. Salsman (jps@CAT.CMU.EDU)
jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) (08/03/89)
In article <442@cwjcc.CWRU.Edu> hathi@colima.UUCP (Kamal Hathi) writes: > I am looking to buy a machine for expert system development in an > corporate environment. > ... > I would like some recommendations on which machine to buy. The budget > is going to be around $20,000. Please refer to the review of LISP compilers in the Volume 7, No 6, UNIX REVIEW. The price for Allegro CL from Franz, Inc. is quoted as starting at $1500. They say that it runs on a 386 PC, and the product is very highly rated. Next get a PC. The ALR FlexCache 33/386Z lists for $3995. Add a SVGA monitor system for $1500 and a 300 MB Maxtor SCSI disk and Adaptec controller for $3500. The OS should run about $2,500. I would get the SCO UNIX V/386, because of the excellent development system. See UNIX REVIEW, vol 7, no. 8. Anyway, that comes up to $13,000 bucks. You have $7,000 left to buy memory at $300/meg, a backup (I suggest a SCSI WORM drive), an ethernet card, a mouse, and support. You will probably hate the slowness of the VGA monitor system. I would prefer to hang an X terminal onto the ethernet. -- John E Van Deusen III, PO Box 9283, Boise, ID 83707, (208) 343-1865 uunet!visdc!jiii