markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) (01/23/91)
What would happen if the brain began to run out of memory? I tried imagining that a while ago. Basically what I saw was this. We use a sparse coding to represent concepts. If that coding becomes too crowded, then you'll progressively see more and more interference between related concepts any time you tried to "recall" any specific concept. In a word: cross-talk. It happened to me a couple times recently, though not necessarily because my brain's running out of space, nor because of any memory deficit (I have very strong associative memory capibility). But the experience is real interesting. The first time I was trying to bring up a word describing a child who was well ahead of development typical of his or her age ... and with a slightly sexual connotation. The word is "precocious", but I kept coming up with "prodigious". The second time, more recently, I was trying to come up with a word describing an event that defines future history, or an event which enables similar future events to happen. The word here is "precedent", but I kept coming up with "prerequisite". What struck me the second time this happened was the similarity of the two words (precocious and precedent) which I had momentary difficulty recalling... What was interesting about both situations was that they happened long enough that I could actually sit back any analyse the situation in progress. What kept happending was that the wqord in question would actively block out the other word and sometimes even the underlying concept itself.
rickert@mp.cs.niu.edu (Neil Rickert) (01/23/91)
In article <9093@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: > > What would happen if the brain began to run out of memory? I tried >imagining that a while ago. Basically what I saw was this. > We would grow old and die. > We use a sparse coding to represent concepts. If that coding becomes too >crowded, then you'll progressively see more and more interference between >related concepts any time you tried to "recall" any specific concept. In a >word: cross-talk. You are making many assumptions about how information is represented. I doubt that there is any justification for them. > It happened to me a couple times recently, though not necessarily because my >brain's running out of space, nor because of any memory deficit (I have very >strong associative memory capibility). But the experience is real interesting. > > The first time I was trying to bring up a word describing a child who was >well ahead of development typical of his or her age ... and with a slightly >sexual connotation. The word is "precocious", but I kept coming up with >"prodigious". > > The second time, more recently, I was trying to come up with a word >describing an event that defines future history, or an event which enables >similar future events to happen. The word here is "precedent", but I kept >coming up with "prerequisite". This type of behavior is often seen. It probably occurs even more often in young people with presumably plenty of spare memory. It is completely consistent with my (unpublished) model of the mind, but apparently inconsistent with yours > What struck me the second time this happened was the similarity of the >two words (precocious and precedent) which I had momentary difficulty >recalling... That similarity fits well with my model. > What was interesting about both situations was that they happened long >enough that I could actually sit back any analyse the situation in progress. >What kept happending was that the wqord in question would actively block >out the other word and sometimes even the underlying concept itself. Actually you mis-analyzed the situation because you based your analysis on an incorrect model. But instead of recognizing it as a failure of your model you have added additional complexity such as assumptions about memory overflow. -- =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Neil W. Rickert, Computer Science <rickert@cs.niu.edu> Northern Illinois Univ. DeKalb, IL 60115 +1-815-753-6940
doug@mdbs.uucp (Doug Waterfield) (01/25/91)
In article <8357@mp.cs.niu.edu> rickert@mp.cs.niu.edu (Neil Rickert) writes: >In article <9093@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: >> >> What would happen if the brain began to run out of memory? I tried >>imagining that a while ago. Basically what I saw was this. >> > We would grow old and die. Why? > >> We use a sparse coding to represent concepts. If that coding becomes too >> . >> . > You are making many assumptions about how information is represented. I >doubt that there is any justification for them. > Why? >> It happened to me a couple times recently, though not necessarily >> . >> . >> . >>similar future events to happen. The word here is "precedent", but I kept >>coming up with "prerequisite". > > This type of behavior is often seen. It probably occurs even more often in >young people with presumably plenty of spare memory. It is completely >consistent with my (unpublished) model of the mind, but apparently >inconsistent with yours > And again, why? You refute Hopkins' arguments repeatedly, and the only proof you offer is a model which you *don't* explain! How are we to accept your statments without even an attempt at proof? >> What struck me the second time this happened was the similarity of the >>two words (precocious and precedent) which I had momentary difficulty >>recalling... > > That similarity fits well with my model. > How convenient--the similarity fits the model which you do not describe. >> What was interesting about both situations was that they happened long > > Actually you mis-analyzed the situation because you based your analysis on >an incorrect model. But instead of recognizing it as a failure of your >model you have added additional complexity such as assumptions about >memory overflow. > So, when may we be enlightened by your "correct" model? ============================================================================== Doug Waterfield | Of course, the opinions expressed above are mine doug@mdbs.UUCP | and not those of my employer. mdbs, Inc. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "How many times do your hear it? It goes on all day long. Everyone knows everything, no one's ever wrong." -Rush, "Show Don't Tell" ==============================================================================
ingres@ingres.com (INGRES SysAdmin) (01/25/91)
In article <1991Jan23.050328.8357@mp.cs.niu.edu> rickert@mp.cs.niu.edu (Neil Rickert) writes: OK, ignite torch: >In article <9093@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: >> We use a sparse coding to represent concepts. If that coding becomes too >>crowded, then you'll progressively see more and more interference between >>related concepts any time you tried to "recall" any specific concept. In a >>word: cross-talk. > > You are making many assumptions about how information is represented. I >doubt that there is any justification for them. yep I agree with you this far. > >> The first time I was trying to bring up a word describing a child who was >>well ahead of development typical of his or her age ... and with a slightly >>sexual connotation. The word is "precocious", but I kept coming up with >>"prodigious". >> >> The second time, more recently, I was trying to come up with a word >>describing an event that defines future history, or an event which enables >>similar future events to happen. The word here is "precedent", but I kept >>coming up with "prerequisite". > > This type of behavior is often seen. It probably occurs even more often in >young people with presumably plenty of spare memory. It is completely >consistent with my (unpublished) model of the mind, but apparently >inconsistent with yours Its totally inconsistent with my 102 volume definitive guide to creation. come-on, you cann't be serios. The guy never mentioned anything about having a 'model of the mind'. woopy for you that it matches yours. Either publish or keep ya mouth shut, unless you can be constructive!!!!!!! > >> What struck me the second time this happened was the similarity of the >>two words (precocious and precedent) which I had momentary difficulty >>recalling... > > That similarity fits well with my model. > >> What was interesting about both situations was that they happened long >>enough that I could actually sit back any analyse the situation in progress. >>What kept happending was that the wqord in question would actively block >>out the other word and sometimes even the underlying concept itself. > > Actually you mis-analyzed the situation because you based your analysis on >an incorrect model. But instead of recognizing it as a failure of your >model you have added additional complexity such as assumptions about >memory overflow. since he didn't mention having a 'model of the mind' in the first place it would be pretty difficult for it to be mis-analyzed, smarty pants. Anyway, (oh how I love that word) since the arguement at this stage is totally subjective (doning his flame proof undies) and since it is quite feasible that the brain runs out of memory (I like to call this 'the morning after the night before' - all system go on battery backup), he is as likely to be correct as you. TTFN Stephen Bull sbull@eros.ingres.com
cho@sol4.cs.psu.edu (Sehyeong Cho) (01/27/91)
In article <1991Jan24.215249.6737@mdbs.uucp> doug@mdbs.UUCP (Doug Waterfield) writes: >In article <8357@mp.cs.niu.edu> rickert@mp.cs.niu.edu (Neil Rickert) writes: >>In article <9093@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: >>> We use a sparse coding to represent concepts. If that coding becomes too >>> . >> You are making many assumptions about how information is represented. I >>doubt that there is any justification for them. > >Why? Do you, then, KNOW what kind of coding scheme the brain uses? I'd be delighted to learn that. :-) -- ======================================================================== | Yesterday I was a student. Sehyeong Cho | Today I am a student. cho@cs.psu.edu | Tomorrow I'll probably still be a student.
mikero@microsoft.UUCP (Michael ROBIN) (01/31/91)
In article <1991Jan23.050328.8357@mp.cs.niu.edu> rickert@mp.cs.niu.edu (Neil Rickert) writes: In article <9093@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes: > This type of behavior is often seen. It probably occurs even more often in >young people with presumably plenty of spare memory. It is completely >consistent with my (unpublished) model of the mind, but apparently >inconsistent with yours [.....] > >That similarity fits well with my model. [.....] Ok, so what the !@#$ is your model??