Ferg@cup.portal.com (09/08/88)
I hope this is the proper place to post this, if not, sorry, and please tell me where to go (on the net that is :) ) I run a small mail order business part time and thought I could stir up some business on the net. I remember seeing flames on people who posted commercial products for sale so I went in search for the rules of UseNet to see if I could legally advertise my business on the Net. I found a small "rules" note in news.announce.newusers that said: This message describes some of the rules of conduct on Usenet. The rules vary depending on the newsgroup. ...Stuff deleted >Announcement of professional products or services on Usenet is allowed; >however, since someone else is paying the phone bills for this, it is >important that it be of overall benefit to Usenet. Post to the >appropriate newsgroup -- comp.newprod -- never to a general purpose >newsgroup such as "misc.misc". Clearly mark your article as a product >announcement in the subject. Never repeat these -- one article per >product at the most; preferably group everything into one article. >Advertising hype is especially frowned upon -- stick to technical >facts. Obnoxious or inappropriate announcements or articles violating >this policy will generally be rejected. This policy is, of course, >subject to change if it becomes a problem. ...More stuff deleted This is all I found that had anything to do with advertising. So I went ahead and posted an advertisement in misc.forsale selling my modems. I got several replies, most of which were inquiries about the brand and other technical stuff. However I also received 2 complaints. One stating that I can't post commercial ads on UseNet, and the other telling me to get it out of misc.forsale and put it in BIZ.*. Now here's my questions (finally!). Can I advertise my part time business? And if so, where? I can't find any newsgroup titled BIZ.*. If I can't do this, where do I go to get a new newsgroup started that might allow this for any small business? One last question. Where can I find a complete rule book on UseNet? Oh yeah, where should I post other questions I have about UseNet? I apologize for anything I may have done wrong. ____ |_ | erg UUCP: {cbosgd hplabs!hp-sdd sdcsvax nosc}!crash!pnet01!ferg ARPA: crash!pnet01!ferg@nosc.mil INET: ferg@pnet01.cts.com PORTAL: john_ferg_ferguson@cup.portal.com
jbuck@epimass.EPI.COM (Joe Buck) (09/10/88)
In article <8869@cup.portal.com> Ferg@cup.portal.com writes: >I run a small mail order business part time and thought I could stir up >some business on the net. For the most part, this is definitely NOT OK. As you point out, you may use comp.newprod, ONCE, to announce a new product. One announcement in a regional newsgroup that you are a business and provide certain services is reasonable as far as I am concerned; others might disagree and flame you. But if you send out REPEATED ads, you'll get landed on hard. >[ stuff from .newusers about comp.newprod ] > > This is all I found that had anything to do with advertising. So I went >ahead and posted an advertisement in misc.forsale selling my modems. I got >several replies, most of which were inquiries about the brand and other >technical stuff. However I also received 2 complaints. One stating that I >can't post commercial ads on UseNet, and the other telling me to get it out >of misc.forsale and put it in BIZ.*. Groups like misc.forsale are meant for private individuals selling personal property on a one-time basis, not for businesses. biz.* is an alternate network hierarchy that is paid for by the companies in question. If you were a large company or one with a very popular product, you and your customers could set up dedicated news feeds under the biz.* hierarchy to do customer support, product announcements, and what have you. This is not something you can do from Portal. >Now here's my questions (finally!). Can I advertise my part time business? >And if so, where? I can't find any newsgroup titled BIZ.*. You cannot. Anywhere. I'm sorry, but that's just not what the net is for. >If I can't do this, where do I go to get a new newsgroup started that might >allow this for any small business? You could create one under biz.*, but it would not be carried by the regular backbone sites. You'd have to establish your own news feeds. There are just too many small businesses. >One last question. Where can I find a complete rule book on UseNet? >Oh yeah, where should I post other questions I have about UseNet? Other than the news.announce.newusers articles there are no official rules. The net is a loose association of the sites that make it up; it's a culture. Just read for a while and get used to it; it'll gradually become clear what's acceptable and what isn't. Also, your local system administrators are responsible for educating the users. Judging by the disproportionate amount of net abuse from Portal, they aren't doing their jobs. Ask them first; if you can't get good answers locally, come back to news.misc. -- - Joe Buck {uunet,ucbvax,pyramid,<smart-site>}!epimass.epi.com!jbuck jbuck@epimass.epi.com Old Arpa mailers: jbuck%epimass.epi.com@uunet.uu.net If you leave your fate in the hands of the gods, don't be surprised if they have a few grins at your expense. - Tom Robbins
ted@blia.BLI.COM (Ted Marshall) (09/10/88)
Just a quick note. Please post replies instead of mailing to the original poster. I'm sure there are many people involved either directly or indirectly (includes me) with small businesses who would be interested in responses. Thanks. -- Ted Marshall ...!ucbvax!mtxinu!blia!ted <or> mtxinu!blia!ted@Berkeley.EDU The opinions expressed above are those of the poster and not his employer.
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (09/11/88)
In article <8869@cup.portal.com> Ferg@cup.portal.com writes: >Now here's my questions (finally!). Can I advertise my part time business? >And if so, where? I can't find any newsgroup titled BIZ.*. The crucial thing to remember is that when you post to the net, you are spending other people's money to transmit your message. By and large, these people are *not* interested in spending their money for transmission of your advertising. Most (not all) of them will agree that a single brief non-hype posting describing your services is appropriate, especially if said services are something new and different. Otherwise, the answer is simply that this is the wrong medium for such advertising. -- NASA is into artificial | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology stupidity. - Jerry Pournelle | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack) (09/12/88)
In article <2465@epimass.EPI.COM> jbuck@epimass.EPI.COM (Joe Buck) writes: >In article <8869@cup.portal.com> Ferg@cup.portal.com writes: >> [wants to advertise his modems, asks about biz groups] > >biz.* is an alternate network hierarchy that is paid for by the >companies in question. If you were a large company or one with a very >popular product, you and your customers could set up dedicated news >feeds under the biz.* hierarchy to do customer support, product >announcements, and what have you. This is not something you can do >from Portal. The only product-specific group in the biz hierarchy is biz.comp.telebit. The other groups are, as far as I know, general purpose. They are: biz.comp.hardware biz.comp.services biz.comp.software biz.comp.software.demos biz.comp.telebit biz.config biz.misc biz.stolen biz.test If you can talk Portal into subscribing to the biz groups, then presumably you can post your advertising to them. Alternatively, you can subscribe directly to uunet, which carries the biz groups. >>Now here's my questions (finally!). Can I advertise my part time business? >>And if so, where? I can't find any newsgroup titled BIZ.*. > >You cannot. Anywhere. I'm sorry, but that's just not what the net is for. Except in the biz groups, as someone mentioned to you before. I'm not sure how useful this would be actually be, however. There is very little traffic in the biz groups. Presumably, this is due to horrible connectivity and/or lack of interest. Dave Mack aka
lyndon@ncc.Nexus.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (09/14/88)
In article <2610@inco.UUCP> mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack) writes: > [...] >I'm not sure how useful this would be actually be, however. There is >very little traffic in the biz groups. Presumably, this is due to >horrible connectivity and/or lack of interest. Connectivity is quite good. I think the lack of traffic is caused by the majority of net readers not knowing the groups are there, or not knowing their purpose. If Karl doesn't speak up I'll post the biz "policy statement." -- VE6BBM {alberta,pyramid,uunet}!ncc!lyndon lyndon@Nexus.CA
cyrill@scicom.alphacdc.com (Cyro Lord) (09/14/88)
From everything I have heard, the answer is no. One shot adds are allow
now in two newsgroups, misc.forsale and comp.newprod. As a site admin
person for 'scicom', I tell all our users, 'USENET' is for learning,
exchange of ideas and information. If you want to run your business
on the net, then expect every one to do the same. Just not enough band
width for this, so PLEASE, lets not start.
--
Cyro Lord Alpha Comm. Dev. Corp. - DOMAIN cyrill@scicom.alphacdc.com
UUCP {ncar,nbires,boulder,isis}!scicom!cyrill
Being alive is learning to make love with what you most fear. - James Baldwinted@blia.BLI.COM (Ted Marshall) (09/16/88)
So far, this discussion has concentrated on computer-related businesses. This is natural, considering the medium. However, my interest is in one-time or very occasional announcements of non-computer related services. In my case, my wife is a professional photographer and I would love to be able to post a small note to a local newsgroup (i.e. ba.general (SF Bay Area)). To date, I have refrained from doing this, or even posting a response to a message requesting such a reference (although I do send mail to the requestor). Don't worry, I will continue to refrain unless there seems to be a consensus here that such is acceptable. I know many reasons why such messages are unacceptable (i.e. competitors paying for carrying the message, general non-commercial nature of Usenet, etc.). However, I would like to see this issue included in the discussion. Thanks for listening. -- Ted Marshall ...!ucbvax!mtxinu!blia!ted <or> mtxinu!blia!ted@Berkeley.EDU The opinions expressed above are those of the poster and not his employer.
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (09/16/88)
Naturally it's up to the "ba" people to decide what goes in a bay area group, but as the most active proponent of allowing product news on usenet, let me suggest that a photographers ad to a "*.general" group is not in line. In fact, any ad to a *.general group would be out of line. The principle to remember is, does the ad serve the readers of the group? This means it must be directly targeted at the group. In addition, one must consider if it is new information for which the net would be a good source. This would not be the case for something that is already in the yellow pages under cameras, unless again there is something particular to that group to say. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
weemba@garnet.berkeley.edu (Obnoxious Math Grad Student) (09/17/88)
In article <2042@looking.UUCP>, brad@looking (Brad Templeton) writes: >In fact, any ad to a *.general group would be out of line. The principle >to remember is, does the ad serve the readers of the group? This means >it must be directly targeted at the group. Well, you were right earlier when you say it's up to the ba.* readers to decide for themselves. I'd say the larger the group, the less appropri- ate the ad is. I don't think anyone could object to someone posting a math books for sale ad to ucb.math.general. I'm trying to figure out right now what to do about a possible ad for an encyclopedia. A bookstore that I work for (very minimally: I order the math and physics books in exchange for discounts) has a $2500 encyclope- dia that some company gave them "on consignment" (meaning pay for it when sold) rather than lug it back east after some booksellers' convention. (OK, I admit, I got a free coffee cup with a picture of the encyclopedia on it to boot. Better than a dumb T-shirt, I suppose.) But I don't like the idea of engaging in advertizing like this at all. So for now I've decided to not do it. ucbvax!garnet!weemba Matthew P Wiener/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (09/17/88)
In article <14383@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> weemba@garnet.berkeley.edu (Obnoxious Math Grad Student) writes: >In article <2042@looking.UUCP>, brad@looking (Brad Templeton) writes: >>In fact, any ad to a *.general group would be out of line. The principle > >I'm trying to figure out right now what to do about a possible ad for an >encyclopedia. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what to do with a case of deflectant rikels I'm trying to sell. I can't post an ad to the net, so I can't tell anybody they're 40 quatloos each or that my address is 777 hells gate, Pa. 80382 or that I take Visa, Mastercharge, Amex or the Discovery card. I especially can't say that they were made here in our foundries and that we make the finest rikels in America, or that you should specify size when ordering. Oh well. Too bad about that. -- Be calm in the face of all common disgraces, and know what they're doing it for. richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {backbone}!gryphon!richard