richmond@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond) (11/18/88)
I do not wish to spread this discussion to more than one newsgroup, so I expect this will be all I have to say on the matter in news.misc. Please follow this on soc.culture.jewish if you are interested. In response to Rich Salz' questions, I am not currently going to answer the first three. My ultimate goal -- to reply to question 4 -- is the elimination of racist jokes from rec.humor.funny. I removed Mr. Wiener's quote to shorten it. In reply to #7, I was simply saying that I wish to consider some action which will result in the elimination of racist "humor" from rec.humor.funny. In answer to #8, this is irrelevant, would require a long and considered account, and one that I am not going to give now. To answer #9, the citation of the First Amendment is irrelevant. The point is that Brad Templeton clearly has a choice in whether to include racist humor or not. He receives a large volume of jokes, many of which he rejects. While (were he American) the First Amendment might protect his inclusion of racist material, I believe that he should have the good judgement to *choose* not to do so. I have had more to say in soc.culture.jewish. Just bear in mind that racist jokes such as we have seen in rec.humor.funny have been used to create stereotypes that have been the basis of persecution of races and peoples. That would seem to me to be enough reason not to propagate such material.
dhesi@bsu-cs.UUCP (Rahul Dhesi) (11/18/88)
In article <8028@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> richmond@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond) writes: >My ultimate goal -- to reply to question 4 -- >is the elimination of racist jokes from rec.humor.funny. I'm afraid you are proceeding from a false premise. Being Jewish is not a matter concerning race. Being Jewish, like being Hindu, is a religious and cultural distinction. But there's a more serious problem here than just your incorrect use of a word. While I sympathize with your desire not to have your cultural heritage be made fun of, what you wish to achieve cannot in general be achieved without eliminating humor altogether. Things that are funny are funny because something or somebody -- some culture, or some profession, or some individual -- is made to look silly. I think a better strategy would be for you to obtain "equal time" by sending Brad jokes about other cultures and religions. That way we will all get to laugh at each other, and in doing so, perhaps we can also laugh with each other at the human experience in general. Being sullen and rebellious won't achieve that, however. (If you can't find anything funny to say about other cultures, then I think we have diagnosed the problem :-) -- Rahul Dhesi UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!dhesi
rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) (11/19/88)
Jonathon Richmond has said privately and publicly that he does not want to get involved in any discussion of the "racist" jokes issue outside of soc.culture.jewish. This lends an interesting slant to his claim that his goal is to remove all racist jokes from rec.humor.funny, don'tcha think? I am cross-posting this to soc.culture.jewish so that JEDR cannot continue to hide his head in the sand and continue preaching to the choir. News.misc readers, PLEASE continue the cross-post. /rich $alz -- Please send comp.sources.unix-related mail to rsalz@uunet.uu.net.
kmw@sim.ardent.com (Ken Wallich) (11/19/88)
In article <8028@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> richmond@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan E. D. Richmond) writes: > >In response to Rich Salz' questions, I am not currently going to >answer the first three. Why not? You make vague and threatening statements that imply you want to put a gag on Brad by putting thumbscrews on his employers, and then simply refuse to answer direct questions as to your intentions? >My ultimate goal -- to reply to question 4 -- >is the elimination of racist jokes from rec.humor.funny. Oh boy, here we go again. Ok Mr. Richmond, who is going to be the arbitor of what is considered 'racist' and what isn't? Obviously, you don't think Brad is doing a good job (the joke that seems to have sent you off was accidentaly not 'rot13ed', but you don't want them encrypted, you want them ELIMINATED). Perhaps *you* are the only person who can *censor* things appropriately? Then what if you post something that offends me? Then perhaps I can have a gag put on you, and then I post something.... >In reply to #7, I was simply saying that I wish to consider some >action which will result in the elimination of racist "humor" from >rec.humor.funny. In other words make his employers put a gag on him so he won't publish anything that could possibly offend *you*. Sounds like suppression to me. >[...] That would seem to me to be enough reason not to propagate >such material. I have found a few jokes in rec.humor.funny to be mildly offensive (I don't offend easily, mind you), but I have seen no jokes in recent history (including the one that seems to have set you off) that made *me* feel bad stereotypes were being propagated. Your narrow, reactionary point of view does more harm to the image of Jewish folks than any joke can. Fortunatly, I don't let the opinions of one man color my perception of a group of people. Ken Wallich Ardent Computer Corp kmw@ardent.com Sunnyvale, California, USA "chance is the fool's name for fate"
hwt@bnr-public.uucp (Henry Troup) (11/23/88)
Isaac Asimov is Jewish (I hope that's not news). His "Asimov's Treasury of Humor" includes the joke that started this all, and about 500 other Jewish jokes - none are rot13. Henry Troup utgpu!bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!hwt%bnr-public | BNR is not Bell-Northern Reseach hwt@bnr (BITNET/NETNORTH) | responsible for Ottawa, Canada (613) 765-2337 (Voice) | my opinions