jha@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Jamie Andrews) (11/07/88)
Recently some people have been voicing some concern about
the heavy volume of postings in soc.culture.celtic concerning
politics, particularly the situation in Northern Ireland.
As Usenet is an anarchistic bulletin board system, the
standard procedure in cases like this is to have a vote.
There can be no enforcement of the results of such a vote, but
posters are encouraged to follow the wishes of the net for the
good of the community. I therefore propose that we have a vote
on the following statement.
"Posters to soc.culture.celtic should avoid
discussing the present political situation in
Northern Ireland, due to the high volume of
irresolvable debate it generates."
I will collect votes on this coming from the UK and Europe
(YES if you think people should avoid these issues, NO if you
think they shouldn't). My address is:
jha@lfcs.ed.ac.uk
People who want to volunteer to collect votes from North
America, please email me and I will post an address. I hope
that my non-involvement in the debate for so long will convince
people that I am capable of doing all this neutrally.
Please, folks, no discussion about this posting or the
wording of the statement, just vote.
--Jamie Andrews.
jha@lfcs.ed.ac.uk
"Where on your palm is my little line"dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan) (11/19/88)
OK, let me first start by saying, that I don't subscribe to s.c.c, so I can in a sense be considered unbiased. Furthermore, I was born in Wales and grew up in Ireland. However, what you posted stinks of Censorship. Allow me to elaborate. In article <912@etive.ed.ac.uk>, jha@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Jamie Andrews) writes: > > Recently some people have been voicing some concern about > the heavy volume of postings in soc.culture.celtic concerning > politics, particularly the situation in Northern Ireland. Fine. No argument here. > As Usenet is an anarchistic bulletin board system, the > standard procedure in cases like this is to have a vote. First, use of the phrase 'bulletin board system' is incorrect. Both technically, and socially. Furthermore, unless you are proposing an action (newgroup, rmgroup or some such), a vote is meaningless. > There can be no enforcement of the results of such a vote, but > posters are encouraged to follow the wishes of the net for the > good of the community. I therefore propose that we have a vote > on the following statement. I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. A better idea is to "post to s.c.c", and tell the guilty parties that you want the discussion moved. That, perhaps, you don't feel it is appropriate. This is better than asking for a vote to silence all concerned. Even if the vote passed by 10,000 to 1, you still couldn't enforce it. If you *really* feel the problem has gotten out of hand, vote for MODERATION. > "Posters to soc.culture.celtic should avoid > discussing the present political situation in > Northern Ireland, due to the high volume of > irresolvable debate it generates." Why do I get the impression that overall, you don't agree with the mainstream of the above discussion? Being English, I can understand that (:-). Debate is debate. If you don't agree with it, you should use your power of veto (ie, the 'n' key). A far more effective solution might be to ask them (politely) to move to talk.politics, or some other 'more appropriate' group. > I will collect votes on this coming from the UK and Europe > (YES if you think people should avoid these issues, NO if you > think they shouldn't). My address is: Count my vote as NO. Avoiding issues has never been proven as a way to solve problems. If anything, it makes things worse. I'm not saying that posting to USENET will solve problems anywhere, but exposing issues to groups (ON BOTH SIDES), who are assumed to be well-educated can sometimes have remarkable effects. Part of the problem in 'The North' and elsewhere in the world, is the lack of a complete understanding of the problem. If some of the ex- patriots in this country had a better understanding of life today in Ireland, they might not be so anxious to support organizations like the IRA (see "Rattle and Hum"). On the other hand, if the British Government was a little more open to the concerns of Republicans in Northern Ireland, things might be somewhat better too. At any rate, censorship doesn't help. > jha@lfcs.ed.ac.uk > [...] I hope > that my non-involvement in the debate for so long will convince > people that I am capable of doing all this neutrally. But, at some time or other, you have been involved in this debate? Why now, have you decided that the debate is worthless? Am I to assume that it is not going in your favor anymore? You are not helping me decide that yours is a valid cause for alarm. > Please, folks, no discussion about this posting or the > wording of the statement, just vote. > --Jamie Andrews. Hmm. This is probably your biggest downfall. I can understand your position to a certain extent. But, this "I Have Spoken"-type attitude is misplaced. If this were a 'real' vote, the discussion would be opened for a period of two weeks. However, seeing as you are not actually proposing moderation or something similar, I'm prepared to overlook the absence of a 'discussion' period. That is not to say, either, that I think you should ban the issue. If I am to vote, then I would like to hear both arguments, even if you *can* be proven to be neutral. I think I will resubscribe to the soc.* groups, and monitor this 'fiery debate' for myself. - Der PS: I dislike the use of Followups: /dev/null. It is nothing more than annoying. It just means I have to go back and edit the Newsgroups: line. This is hardly a deterrant. If you really feel that yours is the last word on the matter, please make your case more believable. -- dtynan@zorba.Tynan.COM (Dermot Tynan @ Tynan Computers) {apple,mips,pyramid,uunet}!Tynan.COM!dtynan --- If the Law is for the People, then why do we need Lawyers? ---
richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) (11/20/88)
Hey, it's soc.culture.CELTIC. That means the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh.
It's their national pasttime to trash the English, so why are you surprised ?
Maybe you should go for soc.culture.english.
Pip pip and all that rot, eh, fellows ?
--
``You havn't seen Hollywood until you've been to Nikodell''
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {backbone...err, well connected site}!gryphon!richardDave Lawrence (11/21/88)
richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) wrote:
>Hey, it's soc.culture.CELTIC. That means the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh.
Hmm ... maybe you should have kept up with the discussion there a little
while ago. Celtic by no means -just- Scots, Irish and Welsh.
Additionally, anyone who wants to believe that they are 100% Celtic are
most likely deluding themselves; the British Isles had so many invaders
over the course of time that there is hardly anyone who has 100% lineage
from Ireland or Wales or Scotland.
These were widely accepted conclusions of the discussion. Not everyone
was in agreement, but most seemed to be,
Dave
--
g l o r i o u sex i s t e n c e
EMAIL: tale@rpitsmts.bitnet, tale%mts@rpitsgw.rpi.edu, tale@pawl.rpi.edudtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan) (11/22/88)
In article <1791@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU>, Dave Lawrence writes: > > most likely deluding themselves; the British Isles had so many invaders ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > over the course of time that there is hardly anyone who has 100% lineage > from Ireland or Wales or Scotland. > > Dave Hmm. With all this discussion of 'racist' and 'ethnic' jokes recently, I'm surprised to find someone referring to Ireland as part of "the British Isles". As part of "the Colonies", he should know better. - Der -- dtynan@zorba.Tynan.COM (Dermot Tynan @ Tynan Computers) {apple,mips,pyramid,uunet}!Tynan.COM!dtynan --- If the Law is for the People, then why do we need Lawyers? ---
ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) (11/29/88)
In article <2666@sultra.UUCP> dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan) writes: >In article <1791@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU>, Dave Lawrence writes: >> most likely deluding themselves; the British Isles had so many invaders >> over the course of time that there is hardly anyone who has 100% lineage >> from Ireland or Wales or Scotland. > >Hmm. With all this discussion of 'racist' and 'ethnic' jokes recently, I'm >surprised to find someone referring to Ireland as part of "the British Isles". > >As part of "the Colonies", he should know better. Shucks, I just love it! (:-( Who should know better about what? Ireland *is* part of the geographic entity known as the British Isles. Ireland is *not* part of the political entity known as "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", or commonly as "Great Britain", "Britain", "The UK", or totally erroneously as "England"! -- Ray Dunn. | UUCP: ..!philabs!micomvax!ray Philips Electronics Ltd. | TEL : (514) 744-8200 Ext: 2347 600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | FAX : (514) 744-6455 St Laurent. Quebec. H4M 2S9 | TLX : 05-824090