bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) (12/09/88)
In article <680@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov>, shore@ncifcrf.gov (Melinda Shore) writes: > into a) assimilating, or b) shutting up. And personally, I find speaking > out against oppressive behavior admirable, not objectionable. > -- > Melinda Shore shore@ncifcrf.gov Me, too. I'm also in favor of motherhood, the flag, and apple pie. But the entire issue here hinges on the issue of *whether* a joke which relies upon racial, religious, or sexual references is, per se, "discriminatory" or, in your more forceful terms, "oppressive". Is Don Rickles a "racist"? Well, is he? Whether one likes his humor or not, Mr. Rickles has never - so far as I know - drawn serious fire from the Jewish or Black or Puerto Rican or Polish or other communities like unto what we are witnessing here. I can't recall a single instance in which he has been accused of "racism". (It may have happened, but I just don't recall it - does anyone else?). How cum? Does he have some kinda special permit issued by the "right people"? How does one go about applying? Is there a fee? If so, I'll pitch in to help, since I do think we should all be most concerned if one of our usenet moderators were actually guilty of practicing humor without a license. Shame! OVERTURE SYSTEMS CORP. Bud Hovell Operations Specialists Lake Oswego, Oregon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : USENET: {attmail! | tektronix!tessi!bucket! | pacbell!safari!} whizz!bbh : : TELEX: 152258436 (Whizz/Bud Hovell) VOICE: 503-636-3000 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "Follow your bliss" - Joseph Campbell
rfarris@serene.UUCP (Rick Farris) (12/12/88)
In article <567@whizz.uucp> bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) writes:
` Whether one likes his humor or not, Mr. Rickles has never - so far as
` I know drawn serious fire from the Jewish or Black or Puerto Rican or
` Polish or other communities like unto what we are witnessing here.
^^^^^^^^^^^
I think that is the key word: "communities." I don't think JEDR and
his 3 (or 4 or 5) henchmen/henchwomen qualify as a community. In
fact, I've seen more minorities post here that they find the jokes to
be non-racist, than vice versa.
"A Tempest in a Teapot", or "Much Ado About Nothing", or even "JEDR's
15 Minutes of Fame" is my description of this phenomena.
--
Rick Farris RF Engineering POB M Del Mar, CA 92014 voice (619) 259-6793
rfarris@serene.cts.com ...!uunet!serene!rfarris serene.UUCP 259-7757ptownson@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Patrick Townson) (12/12/88)
In article <567@whizz.uucp> bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) writes: >Is Don Rickles a "racist"? Well, is he? > >Whether one likes his humor or not, Mr. Rickles has never - so far as I know - >drawn serious fire from the Jewish or Black or Puerto Rican or Polish or other >communities like unto what we are witnessing here. I can't recall a single >instance in which he has been accused of "racism". (It may have happened, but >I just don't recall it - does anyone else?). > >How cum? Does he have some kinda special permit issued by the "right people"? >How does one go about applying? Is there a fee? If so, I'll pitch in to help, >since I do think we should all be most concerned if one of our usenet >moderators were actually guilty of practicing humor without a license. Shame! > No, Don Rickles is not a racist. And to answer your second question about 'permits issued by the right people', unfortunatly this is correct. What happens is when people run out of any other excuse for stopping your speech or your legitimate activities -- if they had any valid reasons to begin with -- well, then they just scream 'racist!' or 'anti-semite!!!' You see, the thinking is that these two conditions -- racism and anti-semitism -- are so awful, so ugly, that *everything* has to take a back seat to getting rid of them. Indeed, these are pretty dreadful ways to organize your thoughts about people, but they are not the worst problems we face in the world. I've always felt the true racists and jew-haters are the people who scream the most about it. To quote a line from Shakespeare, 'methinks the man doth protest too loudly...' Long ago I quit guilt-tripping to the tune of 'racism' and 'anti-semitism'. Like the words 'liberal' and 'conservative' relative to modern American politics, they are now virtually meaningless. When people toss these words around at people like Brad T. and others, what they are really saying is they can't think of any legitimate reason for their attitude and they are hoping you will buy this one. What they are hoping is that you will recoil in horror and stop the world while they get off. And who are the 'right people who issue the permits'? If people in the news media like you, then you've got it made. If they do not like you, then try as hard as you wish to explain things in the proper context -- such as the operations of this net relative to the *tiny* piece which makes up rec.funny, but they will not be placated. When you have racism on the brain -- when the differences between black and white, Christian and Jew, male and female are so familiar to you that almost all your time is occupied thinking about it, then nothing is going to convince you otherwise. Unfortunatly, some newspapers, some television/radio people are like that. The notion of racism so consumes them and fills them with anxiety that they find a story about it everywhere. They say, 'this will be our news' and then set about finding it, as obviously happened when Brad Templeton was so badly victimized recently. Add in the general ignorance of the public about computer communications -- and I will suggest the general hostility of the print media toward a growing pheonenom which is effectivly leaving fewer people to read the papers or listen to the talking heads on their television at night -- and 'racism' is just the tool to use. So when someone shouts 'racism' or 'anti-semite' at you, just laugh at them and go on your way. *You* know these allegations are not true, and so do they most of the time. Patrick Townson
jwm@aplvax.jhuapl.edu (Jim Meritt) (12/17/88)
In article <567@whizz.uucp> bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) writes: }Me, too. I'm also in favor of motherhood, the flag, and apple pie. But the }entire issue here hinges on the issue of *whether* a joke which relies upon }racial, religious, or sexual references is, per se, "discriminatory" or, in }your more forceful terms, "oppressive". } }Is Don Rickles a "racist"? Well, is he? } }Whether one likes his humor or not, Mr. Rickles has never - so far as I know - }drawn serious fire from the Jewish or Black or Puerto Rican or Polish or other }communities like unto what we are witnessing here. I can't recall a single }instance in which he has been accused of "racism". (It may have happened, but }I just don't recall it - does anyone else?). } }How cum? Does he have some kinda special permit issued by the "right people"? }How does one go about applying? Is there a fee? If so, I'll pitch in to help, }since I do think we should all be most concerned if one of our usenet }moderators were actually guilty of practicing humor without a license. Shame! How about 'cause it's his job, and designated as "entertainment", and is understood as not personal attack? He is fairly polite when not on stage, and issues appologies to whoever says they are offended. Personally, he irritates the hell out of me, but nobody is forcing me to listen, so I don't. Disclaimer: "It's mine! All mine!!!" - D. Duck
bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) (12/21/88)
In article <2734@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu>, jwm@aplvax.jhuapl.edu (Jim Meritt) writes: > In article <567@whizz.uucp> bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell) writes: > }Is Don Rickles a "racist"? Well, is he? > How about 'cause it's his job, and designated as "entertainment", and is > understood as not personal attack? He is fairly polite when not on stage, > and issues appologies to whoever says they are offended. Fine - should we call for a vote and determine whether the 'job' of the rec.humor group moderator is to select jokes for publishment on usenet? Like I said, who issues the license? I think, too, that there is a body of people well-marked in this society who have a strong personal need for being "offended". What distuinguishes them is not the particularly viewpoint they maintain, but rather the militancy with which they uphold it - and which they fully expect every other "right-thinking" person to militantly uphold also. Include among these the wacky right, the wacky left, and vehement {anti-smokers | women's-libbers | UFOers | safety- nazies | et cetera ad infinitum ad nauseum}. Interestingly, they often tend to be very fond of "statistics" of one sort or another to "prove" to the rest of us that we don't really understand the big problem they have been wise enough to perceive. Listen carefully, and you will find them (selectively) quoting numbers to "prove" how wronged they are. I tell you, the minute you hear someone start spouting statistics to support his/her particular social agenda, head for the door! Mark Twain was right in saying that there were three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. I used to believe this was just a cute piece of wit by ol' Mark. Now, I think he had a pretty solid point. And, man, you talk about RIGHTEOUS! When these folks go into their act, then no holds are barred, no statement is too extreme, no insult too grave. You get in their way, and they are going to walk right up your back, take you to court, and in every other way display their absolute contempt for any view or behavior which questions the rightness of theirs. And the newspapers, in particular, just love it. Along with the lawyers. People who tilt windmills are fairly amusing. People who *build* windmills so they can have something to publicly tilt are boors. > Personally, he irritates the hell out of me, but nobody is forcing me to > listen, so I don't. Me, too. But I don't have any problem with the fact that some people find him amusing, and not necessarily because they are particularly "racist". OVERTURE SYSTEMS CORP. Bud Hovell Operations Specialists Lake Oswego, Oregon :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: : USENET: {attmail! | tektronix!tessi!bucket! | pacbell!safari!} whizz!bbh : : TELEX: 152258436 (Whizz/Bud Hovell) VOICE: 503-636-3000 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "Follow your bliss" - Joseph Campbell