harmo@cc.helsinki.fi (Timo Harmo (Valt. tiet. tdk)) (01/22/89)
Hi I'm on a bitnet site and we have recently started to recieve USE- NET news. I'm writing a guide to different communications systems availlable in our system and I'll like to write something on our news-system also. I'd appreachiate all answers to the following (maybe silly) questions. 1. What is USENET? I've understood it's a network of all the si- tes that participate and distribute these newsgroups. Should BIT- NET sites that distibute news be counted in? 2. Do you receive any newsgroups originated in BITNET (things li- ke Bitnet.listserv.history)? 3. What other network are connected to the news services (FIDO- NET,...?) 4. I understand you have a voting system for organizing new groups. How many votes are needed? 5. What kind of people are you in USENET? Computer-pros, stu- dents, ...? (are there some surveys?) Thanks in advance! Timo Harmo Faculty of Soc. Sci, U of Helsinki, Finland Bitnet: HARMO@FINUH internet: HARMO@cc.helsinki.fi.bitnet
wisner@cheops.cis.ohio-state.edu (Bill Wisner) (01/24/89)
>5. What kind of people are you in USENET? Computer-pros, stu- >dents, ...? (are there some surveys?) You name it. Computer professionals, students, presidential candidates, feminists who sue at the drop of a hat.. (Maybe it would be a good idea for me to retain a lawyer now.)
lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) (01/24/89)
From article <1466@cc.helsinki.fi>, by harmo@cc.helsinki.fi (Timo Harmo (Valt. tiet. tdk)): " Hi Hi. I hope you can post a summary of what you find out conerning the questions you ask. There's much I don't know -- a few others who use usenet news know less (I think). " I'm on a bitnet site and we have recently started to recieve USE- " NET news. How do you do that? I didn't know bitnet sites could. I'm interested, since some of my colleagues use an ibm mainframe here which is a bitnet node, but not a usenet/internet node. They'd like to see the news. " 1. What is USENET? I've understood it's a network of all the si- " tes that participate and distribute these newsgroups. I think this description would better fit INTERNET, of which usenet is a proper part. The terms are a bit elastic, but usenet is sometimes used to refer to an older part of the net linked mostly by ordinary phone lines within which addresses are, or were once,given as lists of site names separated by "!"s. The internet is more recent and comprehensive; sites atypically linked by high-speed data lines; addressing is domain-style (e.g. my address -- lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu). But the news is a usenet invention. " Should BIT- " NET sites that distibute news be counted in? Bitnet sites are generally not counted in, because they are connected only here and there to internet sites, because they use a different addressing scheme, because of some software incompatibilities due to bitnet sites typically being ibm non-unix and internet sites typically unix systems. And because they don't distribute news (I had thought). " 2. Do you receive any newsgroups originated in BITNET (things li- " ke Bitnet.listserv.history)? Yes. Some are "fed" into the news system, though I don't know about the one you mention. " 3. What other network are connected to the news services (FIDO- " NET,...?) I can't say. I'd guess none other than internet sites. There might be a one way connection from fidonet, since there's a newsgroup on fido stuff. " 4. I understand you have a voting system for organizing new " groups. How many votes are needed? 100 affirmative votes in excess of negative votes. But sometimes groups get created without any vote, when someone who knows how to create one just goes ahead and does it. " 5. What kind of people are you in USENET? Computer-pros, stu- " dents, ...? (are there some surveys?) Lots of kinds. Probably mostly university folk -- students and faculty -- and computer pros in private companies. Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaai.edu (bitnet: lee@uhccux)
vnend@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (D. W. James) (01/25/89)
In article <1466@cc.helsinki.fi> harmo@cc.helsinki.fi (Timo Harmo (Valt. tiet. tdk)) writes:
)I'm on a bitnet site and we have recently started to recieve USE-
)NET news. I'm writing a guide to different communications systems
)availlable in our system and I'll like to write something on our
)news-system also. I'd appreachiate all answers to the following
)(maybe silly) questions.
NETNEWS for VM/SP (CMS) is available from Princeton University.
Contact Irwin Tillman, irwin@pucc.princeton.edu (or just irwin@pucc,
for those of you on BITNET) for more information.
)1. What is USENET? I've understood it's a network of all the si-
)tes that participate and distribute these newsgroups. Should BIT-
)NET sites that distibute news be counted in?
The best place to start here is with the monthly postings to
news.announce.newusers (something like that.) Gene Spafford and others
post a variety of articles that explain the origins of the USENET, and
other interesting things.
Your second sentence is exactly correct. There are some who
would extend it to include sites that only exchange mail via the
network of machine that are linked to exchange news, but when you get
right down to cases, if they carry a newsgroup, and show up in Rick
Adams count from UUNET, then they are part of USENET. So yes, BITNET
sites that also carry news are part of USENET (examples I know of
would include UKMA (g.ms.uky.edu) and PUCC (pucc.princeton.edu), the
first originally a VAX 750, now a MicroVax, and the second an IBM 3084.))
)2. Do you receive any newsgroups originated in BITNET (things li-
)ke Bitnet.listserv.history)?
There was a project at UKMA to provide this service. I am
not aware if this is one of the mailing lists so gatewayed or not.
Contact david@ms.uky.edu.
)3. What other network are connected to the news services (FIDO-
)NET,...?)
There are gateways into FIDONET, and there are gateways to
and from various BITNET and ARPANET mailing lists. There is also
some kind of connection to JUnet (Japan), EUnet (Europe), EUcon
(also Europe, but I'm not entirely certain what all is going on there.)
And probably others that I'm not familuar with (for example, how does
one count BIONET?)
)4. I understand you have a voting system for organizing new
)groups. How many votes are needed?
100 more positive votes than negative ones. Only votes
mailed count. See the postings to newusers, which cover the current
guidelines.
)5. What kind of people are you in USENET? Computer-pros, stu-
)dents, ...? (are there some surveys?)
All kinds. Lots of students (of all disciplines, not just
CS,) Professionals in Computers and other areas (Engineers, etc.,)
office personel in various corporate offices, people who have access
via spouses, etc, etc,... (No, I've never seen a survey. I'd love
one. If I don't see one eventually I'll do one myself... But then
there are tons of studies I'd like to do on the net...)
) Timo Harmo
) Faculty of Soc. Sci,
) U of Helsinki, Finland
) Bitnet: HARMO@FINUH
) internet: HARMO@cc.helsinki.fi.bitnet
Your welcome, and welcome to the net.
--
Later Y'all, Vnend Ignorance is the mother of adventure.
SCA event list? Mail? Send to:vnend@phoenix.princeton.edu or vnend@pucc.bitnet
Anonymous posting service (NO FLAMES!) at vnend@ms.uky.edu
"Self-discipline implies some unpleasant things to me, including staying away from chocolate ..." Oleg Kiselevmju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) (01/25/89)
> " 3. What other network are connected to the news services (FIDO- > " NET,...?) > > I can't say. I'd guess none other than internet sites. There might > be a one way connection from fidonet, since there's a newsgroup > on fido stuff. Actually, there is "sort of" a two-way connection to Fidonet. It's possible that there is a gateway Fidonet node out there, forwarding Usenet onto Fidonet. I'm using the translation software (Usenet <-> Fido) now to read this message. It's called UFGATE, and (besides the uucico implimentation, and news/mail importers/exporters), it includes utilities to forward news and mail to another Fidonet node. I don't know if anyone is actually doing it, but in theory, it's possible. -- Marc Unangst UUCP : mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us UUCP bang : ...!uunet!sharkey!clip!mudos!mju UUCP bang alt.: ...!{ames, rutgers}!mailrus!clip!mudos!mju Internet : mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us
randy@cctb.mn.org (Randy Orrison) (01/26/89)
In an article lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) writes: | From an article by harmo@cc.helsinki.fi (Timo Harmo (Valt. tiet. tdk)): | " 1. What is USENET? I've understood it's a network of all the si- | " tes that participate and distribute these newsgroups. From the paper "How to Use USENET Effectively" (by Matt Bishop, distributed with the news software): USENET is a worldwide bulletin board system in which thousands of computers pass articles back and forth. This has always been what I understood USENET to be: the network of machines that transfer news. It's not related to the internet, or to UUCP, or to BITNET, except that all of these mechanisms are used to transmit news. | " Should BITNET sites that distibute news be counted in? Obviously. The distribution of news defines USENET. Everyone who reads news should read this paper, and the companion "How to Read the Network News" by Mark R. Horton. If anyone wants a copy of either of these, they are available wherever the news software is available, and if you don't have access to that, send me mail, and I'll send you a copy. In "How to Use USENET Effectively", it says: You should read this document and understand it thoroughly before you even think about posting anything. This is very true. Also, everyone should read news.announce.newusers. -randy -- Randy Orrison - Chemical Computer Thinking Battery - randy@cctb.mn.org (aka randy@{umn-cs.uucp, ux.acss.umn.edu, umnacvx.bitnet, garnet.uucp}) "Blow a lawyer to pieces / It's the obvious way Don't wait for a thesis / Do it today" - Al Stewart
wtm@bunker.UUCP (Bill McGarry) (01/26/89)
In article <18.23DD4216@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us> mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes: > >Actually, there is "sort of" a two-way connection to Fidonet. It's >possible that there is a gateway Fidonet node out there, forwarding Usenet >onto Fidonet. David Dodell from St. Joseph's Hospital in Phoenix and I were the first (as far as I know) to set up a two-way connection between Fidonet and Usenet with the Handicap News (misc.handicap) newsgroup just about two years ago (January 27, 1987). At that time, there was no UFGATE so it was all done by hand. Nowadays, many, if not most, of the newgroups are connected in both directions. Bill McGarry moderator of the Handicap News Bunker Ramo, Shelton, CT (203) 337-1518 PATH: {oliveb, philabs, decvax, fortune, yale}!bunker!wtm l-hcap@vm1.nodak.edu wtm@bunker.uucp
wcf@psuhcx.psu.edu (Bill Fenner) (01/27/89)
In article <3047@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) writes: |From article <1466@cc.helsinki.fi>, by harmo@cc.helsinki.fi (Timo Harmo (Valt. tiet. tdk)): |" I'm on a bitnet site and we have recently started to recieve USE- |" NET news. | |How do you do that? I didn't know bitnet sites could. I'm interested, There have been programs written for VMS and VM/CMS sites, here at PSU we have both on USENET. |" 1. What is USENET? I've understood it's a network of all the si- |" tes that participate and distribute these newsgroups. | |I think this description would better fit INTERNET, of which usenet No, USENET is all the sites that get NetNews. My BBS is part of USENET. Why? Because it gets NetNews. |" Should BIT- |" NET sites that distibute news be counted in? | |Bitnet sites are generally not counted in, because they are connected BITNET sites that receive news are just like any other site that receives news-- part of USENET. You could get a news feed over a ham radio repeater (I know, it's illegal, but...) and be part of USENET. |" 2. Do you receive any newsgroups originated in BITNET (things li- |" ke Bitnet.listserv.history)? | |Yes. Some are "fed" into the news system, though I don't know about |the one you mention. They are often gatewayed locally. For example, locally we have psuvm.psu.edu gatewaying lots of listserv's to netnews. Our equivalent of his bitnet.listserv.history seems to be bit.listserv.hist-l . |" 3. What other network are connected to the news services (FIDO- |" NET,...?) | |I can't say. I'd guess none other than internet sites. There might |be a one way connection from fidonet, since there's a newsgroup |on fido stuff. The question as stated is pretty ambiguous. Do you mean what networks are used to transport news messages? In that case, the answer is UUCP, BITNET, the Internet, FidoNet, and probably many others. Bill Fenner -- Bitnet: wcf@psuhcx.bitnet Bill Fenner | "You are the angel of Internet: wcf@hcx.psu.edu | death, and I am the UUCP: {gatech,rutgers}!psuvax1!psuhcx!wcf | dead man's son." Fido: Sysop at 1:129/87 (814/238 9633) \hogbbs!wcf | -- Pink Floyd
wcf@psuhcx.psu.edu (Bill Fenner) (01/27/89)
In article <18.23DD4216@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us> mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes: | > " 3. What other network are connected to the news services (FIDO- | > " NET,...?) | > | > I can't say. I'd guess none other than internet sites. There might | > be a one way connection from fidonet, since there's a newsgroup | > on fido stuff. | |Actually, there is "sort of" a two-way connection to Fidonet. It's Not "sort of"... definitely. Just not to *all* of Fidonet. |possible that there is a gateway Fidonet node out there, forwarding Usenet |onto Fidonet. I forward to several local systems such groups as comp.sys.ibm.pc, rec.arts.startrek, rec.humor.funny, etc. | I don't know if anyone is |actually doing it, but in theory, it's possible. Possible, and works, too. Users on my BBS and other local BBS's use both Netnews and UUCP mail. Bill Fenner -- Bitnet: wcf@psuhcx.bitnet Bill Fenner | "You are the angel of Internet: wcf@hcx.psu.edu | death, and I am the UUCP: {gatech,rutgers}!psuvax1!psuhcx!wcf | dead man's son." Fido: Sysop at 1:129/87 (814/238 9633) \hogbbs!wcf | -- Pink Floyd
jon@lindy.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) (01/29/89)
A good introductory book on USENET and related topics is "Unix Communications" by Bart Anderson et. al. (Howard W. Sams & Co., Indianapolis, 1987.) -- Jon Corelis jon@lindy.stanford.edu Stanford University BITNET: XB.E70@FORSYTHE.STANFORD.EDU