LRL@psuvm.psu.edu (Linda Littleton) (02/12/90)
We run Netnews at a large (20,000 user) VM/CMS installation. We get a full feed and give read and post access to all users. With that many people involved, we've had some unfortunate situations where our users have posted inappropriate and/or offensive things. We've also had situations where our users have complained about offensive postings that were not posted at our installation. Our management is becoming increasingly concerned, perhaps (though I think and hope they're bluffing) to the point of shutting down the whole thing. I'd like to find out how other places handle these sorts of things, in particular: 1. Do universities limit student posting in any way? 2. How do you deal with a user who posts inappropriate stuff? What kinds of things do you deem "inappropriate"? 3. What do you do when users complain about articles posted at another site? Our most recent complaint was against a rotated posting in rec.humor that contained racist, anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, foul language, and everything else. 4. Are there electronic filters for any of this? If so, do they just look for specific "bad words" or are more sophisticated things being done? 5. Our management is concerned that we could be sued for things our users use our system to say or for things (said by users of other systems) that our computer propogates. Is there any precedence for this? Thanks in advance for your advice, and I appolgize if I'm bringing up a topic that has already been discussed to death. Relay-Version: Version 1.7 PSU-NETNEWS 5/20/88; site BGUVM.BITNET Posting-Version: Version 1.7 PSU-NETNEWS 5/20/88; site BGUVM.BITNET Path: psuvm!barilvm!bguvm.bitnet!avir From: Aviel Roy-Shapira <AVIR@BGUVM.BITNET> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers Subject: Re: The Prisoner (Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA) Message-ID: <657AVIR@BGUVM> Date: Saturday, 10 Feb 1990 15:46:05 IST Organization: Ben-Gurion University, Beer-Sheva, Israel References: <408@wshb.UUCP> <18825@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> <2059@syma.sussex.ac.uk> Are you referring to the 'Who am I - You are No. Six' series? That was a weird one. I'd like to know whatever happend to the series, who the hell he was? And, pleas let me know about any novelisations.
gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) (02/12/90)
In article <90042.134648LRL@PSUVM.BITNET>, LRL@psuvm (Linda Littleton) writes: >We run Netnews at a large (20,000 user) VM/CMS installation. We get a >full feed and give read and post access to all users. With that many >people involved, we've had some unfortunate situations where our users >have posted inappropriate and/or offensive things. One possibility would be to restrict undergraduates to a smaller distribution. Most of what undergraduates have to say is of no interest to anyone anywhere anyway. The fact that so many of them post from Penn State is making the site notorious. -- ucbvax!garnet!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 "I am quite prepared to prove in court that I am neither stupid nor insane." quoted from ONE FOR THE BOOKS, the authorized biography of Captain Carnage.
tar@ksuvax1.cis.ksu.edu (Tim Ramsey) (02/12/90)
In article <1990Feb12.052427.4143@agate.berkeley.edu>, gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: [ ... ] > One possibility would be to restrict undergraduates to a >smaller distribution. Most of what undergraduates have to say is >of no interest to anyone anywhere anyway. The fact that so many >of them post from Penn State is making the site notorious. Speak for yourself. I have as much interest in hearing what an undergrad has to say as I do a high school dropout or anyone else. -- Yup, I'm an undergrad. Tim Ramsey Dept. of Computing and Information Sciences Internet: tar@ksuvax1.cis.ksu.edu Kansas State University, Manhattan KS 66506 UUCP: ...!{rutgers,texbell}!ksuvax1!tar (913) 539-4977 (voice) 2-7114 (FAX)
ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu (Christopher Davis) (02/12/90)
First, a massive disclaimer: I am not the news or system administrator for any system here at Boston University. The only computer I have administrative responsibility for is the Mac on my desk. This is policy and situation *as I understand it* and does not represent the official policies of any Boston University department. LRL@psuvm.psu.edu (Linda Littleton) said: > 1. Do universities limit student posting in any way? BU does not limit student posting *from any machine with news access*. The main campus system (buacca.bu.edu, aka buacca.bitnet) does not run news, and isn't likely to any time soon. Other machines have either local news spools or use NNTP from a central dedicated server. Only the campus Un*x boxes are running news (to my knowledge) and not all of those; in any case, the Un*x machines are all departmental and require some "reason" to have an account. Examples: the Computer Science machines are for those in a CS class or degree program, the Engineering machines are for those in certain majors in BU ENG, etc. So they don't limit it if you have news access in the first place, but odds are you won't. [2-4 deleted, since I can't say much to those topics] > 5. Our management is concerned that we could be sued for things our users > use our system to say or for things (said by users of other systems) > that our computer propogates. Is there any precedence for this? I don't believe there are any precedents. The answer is "we don't know until someone gets taken to court." Sigh. -- Christopher Davis, BU SMG '90 <ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu> <smghy6c@buacca.bitnet> NETWORK PLANNING CONSTRAINT OF THE MONTH: "You can't send bits over a non-existent link." --Valdis Kletnieks <valdis@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu>
tar@ksuvax1.cis.ksu.edu (Tim Ramsey) (02/12/90)
In the referenced article, LRL@psuvm.psu.edu (Linda Littleton) writes: [ ... ] >1. Do universities limit student posting in any way? Speaking for my Dept. only, we used to. When we first made news available we did not forward postings from our undergrad system to off campus sites. After some coaxing, Higher Ups decided to allow undergrad articles to be sent off campus on sort of a trial basis. Since then (somewhere around two years ago), we have had very few problems. >2. How do you deal with a user who posts inappropriate stuff? What > kinds of things do you deem "inappropriate"? Generally, I begin by sending the author mail explaining why I think his/her article was inappropriate. I might suggest that the user cancel the article if I think that is warranted. If the user doesn't comply, I might bump the problem up the chain of command (to the system administrator). Examples of inappropriate articles would be UNIX questions that should be sent to our local consultant mailing list, questions posted to the wrong newsgroup (a C question posted to talk.abortion, for instance), or articles dealing with obviously illegal subject matters (chain letters, software piracy, etc.). I almost never cancel a user's article without his/her permission or instructions from Higher Ups. >3. What do you do when users complain about articles posted at another > site? Our most recent complaint was against a rotated posting > in rec.humor that contained racist, anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, > foul language, and everything else. I tell them to 1) put the author and/or subject in their KILL file, 2) stop reading that group, and/or 3) email the author and complain to him/her. >4. Are there electronic filters for any of this? If so, do they just > look for specific "bad words" or are more sophisticated things > being done? I've not heard of any, but then I haven't looked. >5. Our management is concerned that we could be sued for things our users > use our system to say or for things (said by users of other systems) > that our computer propogates. Is there any precedence for this? Here go the net.lawyers again. IMO, the only worthwhile advice you'll get is from an attorney. -- Yup, I'm an undergrad. Tim Ramsey Dept. of Computing and Information Sciences Internet: tar@ksuvax1.cis.ksu.edu Kansas State University, Manhattan KS 66506 UUCP: ...!{rutgers,texbell}!ksuvax1!tar (913) 539-4977 (voice) 2-7114 (FAX)
LRL@psuvm.psu.edu (Linda Littleton) (02/12/90)
So far, in just one day, I've gotten over 20 answers to my question of how to deal with users saying inappropriate things on the net. I will summarize later, but for now see that I need to clarify the questions. >2. How do you deal with a user who posts inappropriate stuff? People answered the expected stuff of warning the user, then taking away their privileges, etc. What I'd like to know is: 2a. Who issues the warnings and deals the user's appeals? Does this generally befall the news administrator? 2b. Do you wait for users to call bad stuff to your attention, or does someone go looking for it? >3. What do you do when users complain about articles posted at another > site? Our most recent complaint was against a rotated posting > in rec.humor that contained racist, anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, > foul language, and everything else. I should clarify that it way a high level professor who rot13'd the message and then complained to my boss's boss's boss, who told me to cancel the article. I did (just from our local system) and am wondering how others would have handled this. Our director got word of it and has told me to filter out bad stuff if possible, and otherwise to go ahead and cancel any non-local posting that any of our users complain about. Thanks for the feedback and advice.
davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (02/13/90)
In article <90042.134648LRL@PSUVM.BITNET> LRL@psuvm.psu.edu (Linda Littleton) writes: | 3. What do you do when users complain about articles posted at another | site? Our most recent complaint was against a rotated posting | in rec.humor that contained racist, anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, | foul language, and everything else. We have news on a few hundred machines here (commercial site), and I can't imagine anyone admitting that they were reading a non-work realated group, took the trouble to unrot the article, and then complained. If it did happen I would show them how to unsubscribe. I mailed a detailed answer back, but I though this might be of general interest. -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen) "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
tale@cs.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) (02/13/90)
In <90043.092940LRL@PSUVM.BITNET Linda Littleton <LRL@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
People answered the expected stuff of warning the user, then taking away
their privileges, etc. What I'd like to know is:
I'd be hard pressed to recommend revocation of privilege for first or
even second offenders. It really doesn't matter how I feel about it
though because Rensselaer has a rather complete Campus Computer Use
Policy which outlines what is not considered acceptable behaviour. I
don't think it gets put into play much but mention of it and the
consequences is usually enough to calm someone down.
I saw a recent message that one of the people who recently reposted
one of the pyramid schemes got his account yanked. Without knowing
anything else about the user and his environment my gut reaction is
that this was wrong; he could likely have posted it out of sincere
naivety, not realising that it was really a wrong thing to do.
2a. Who issues the warnings and deals the user's appeals? Does this
generally befall the news administrator?
"Not my job." I think this varies a lot though because of the
different capacities people can serve in. When I started as news
admin for Rensselaer I was an assistant systems programmer for the
campus public access workstations. Now I am a software engineer for
the Computer Science department and a part-timer for the FSF. While
some of my responsibilities do step into the domain of system
administration, and I have been given root privileges on many
machines to facilitate this, I am not really a system administrator.
Most user problems aren't my problems; I don't worry about accounts
and dumps and restores and screwed up home directories and how much
diskspace people are using and so on and so forth.
The network around here then is not only the machines but also the
admins. If there is some sort of problem coming out of domain.rpi.edu
it isn't my job to put the user on disciplinary action. What I will
have to do is talk with both the user and his system administrator and
get it all straightened out.
2b. Do you wait for users to call bad stuff to your attention, or does
someone go looking for it?
If someone goes looking for it around here he's on his own little
vendetta. No one here is commissioned to be the Mary Whitehouse(*) of
Rensselaer.
I should clarify that it way a high level professor who rot13'd the
message and then complained to my boss's boss's boss, who told me to
cancel the article. I did (just from our local system) and am wondering
how others would have handled this.
I almost certainly wouldn't have cancelled it except under direct
threat from my superiors. My immediate superior tends to site with me
on most issues regarding freedom/restriction though so I'm not too
extremely concerned that I'm often treading on his toes. Cancelling
it from your own system is technically fine though. You didn't send
out any search-and-destroy missiles all over the net and no one else
can really tell you what must exist on your machine.
Dave
(*) Benefits of C News #102 -- expands cultural and political horizons
through knowledge of the source code.
--
(setq mail '("tale@cs.rpi.edu" "tale@ai.mit.edu" "tale@rpitsmts.bitnet"))
"Nice plant. Looks like a table cloth."smaug@eng.umd.edu (Kurt Lidl) (02/13/90)
In article <1990Feb12.052427.4143@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: > One possibility would be to restrict undergraduates to a >smaller distribution. Most of what undergraduates have to say is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >of no interest to anyone anywhere anyway. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Let's hear it for bad generalizations in poor taste again. Didn't we just go through this 6 months ago? Just because someone doesn't have a degree doesn't make them inane conversationists or make their postings less valuable. I would rather read ten uninteresting postings from these maligned poeple than one ignorant posting from a person who is bigoted against the youth of America. >ucbvax!garnet!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 >"I am quite prepared to prove in court that I am neither stupid nor insane." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I doubt it, I really doubt it. Why *else* would you make such an absurd statement? -- /* Kurt J. Lidl (smaug@eng.umd.edu) | Unix is the answer, but only if you */ /* UUCP: uunet!eng.umd.edu!smaug | phrase the question very carefully. */
wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) (02/13/90)
One idea is to restrict distribution of new users, (including undergrads) to local for n weeks. This spares the net from the thousands of "test"s in active groups, and the "please subscribe me to list" messages. The idea is that after such a time, they may have read enough to avoid the worst of the mistakes. A refinement might be that they had also spent x connect hours or y cpu seconds in news. -- A host is a host & from coast to coast...wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu no one will talk to a host that's close..............(305) 255-RTFM Unless the host (that isn't close)......................pob 570-335 is busy, hung or dead....................................33257-0335
gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) (02/13/90)
In article <1990Feb13.032400.4120@eng.umd.edu>, smaug@eng (Kurt Lidl) writes: >In article <1990Feb12.052427.4143@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: >> One possibility would be to restrict undergraduates to a >>smaller distribution. Most of what undergraduates have to say is > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>of no interest to anyone anywhere anyway. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Let's hear it for bad generalizations in poor taste again. Didn't >we just go through this 6 months ago? Just because someone doesn't >have a degree doesn't make them inane conversationists or make >their postings less valuable. That is not what I said, even if you take the hyperbole literally. The point is, undergraduates are quite a bit more likely to make inane, stupid or ignorant comments on the net. This is not theory, this is observation. Penn State's policies are not helping the net, and they are certainly not helping the image of Penn State, which has become a byword and a laughing stock. >I would rather read ten uninteresting postings from these >maligned poeple than one ignorant posting from a person who is >bigoted against the youth of America. If they are ignorant then I am not maligning them, am I? Just because you like to read stupid junk does not entail that everyone else does or should. Maybe there should be an undergraduate keyword somewhere in each undergraduate posting which would allow a global KILL? >>ucbvax!garnet!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 >>"I am quite prepared to prove in court that I am neither stupid nor insane." > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I doubt it, I really doubt it. Why *else* would you make such an >absurd statement? That funny-looking symbol " is called a quotation mark. Since you evidently don't know what it means, I suggest you find out. It *is* important.
gary@sci34hub.UUCP (Gary Heston) (02/14/90)
In article <90043.092940LRL@PSUVM.BITNET>, LRL@psuvm.psu.edu (Linda Littleton) writes: > [ ... ] > their privileges, etc. What I'd like to know is: > 2a. Who issues the warnings and deals the user's appeals? Does this > generally befall the news administrator? Virtually nobody else would be in a position to do any of this. In most cases, the students' advisor or employees' supervisor (as the case may be) is likely to be unfamiliar with the understood policies or what could be done about it. A news or site admin can explain to Joe User what the joys of rsh are, which can do wonders to bringing someone in line. > 2b. Do you wait for users to call bad stuff to your attention, or does > someone go looking for it? The obvious thing here is, who in the HECK has time to scan 5 or 6 megabytes per day of text? Assuming the typical 5 characters per word, that's a megaword. Now, I'm somewhat of a speedreader. I can, in some cases, read at 1200 words per minute. (That's fast, incidentally, but I've done over 2000 in special cases.) At 1200 wpm, it would take me 14.5 HOURS straight to scan the stuff. Not humanly possible. Relying on complaints, and what we come across in our own reading activities is the only possible way to go. Sort of like trying to catch speeders. > >3. What do you do when users complain about articles posted at another > > site? Our most recent complaint was against a rotated posting > > in rec.humor that contained racist, anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, > > foul language, and everything else. > I should clarify that it way a high level professor who rot13'd the > message and then complained to my boss's boss's boss, who told me to > cancel the article. I did (just from our local system) and am wondering > how others would have handled this. I'd tell boss's boss's boss to tell high professor to not bother him with trivial complaints, they should go to the netadmin, which anyone reading news should know to reach at site!postmaster. You don't call the president of a company when the light bulb in your office burns out, you call maintenance. I'd tell high professor that he shouldn't unrot13 a message unless he enjoys things normal people find offensive. If you don't like pictures of naked women, don't open a copy of Playboy. If you don't like pictures of naked men, don't open a copy of Playgirl. I'm even worse, I read Fortune and Forbes. The professors' complaint is akin to someone standing in the middle of an interstate, and complaining about people driving by at 55 MPH. Get out of the road. If you boss tells you to remove something, though, you have to. I'd probably null the article instead of deleting or local canceling, though, so it would stay in history and not get reposted to your site. > Our director got word of it and has told me to filter out bad stuff if > possible, and otherwise to go ahead and cancel any non-local posting that > any of our users complain about. Thank your director for this new responsibility, and ask him to let you know when your staff of eight news scanners will report, along with your new title of supervisor, and the nice new equipment your staff'll need. If he gives you a funny look, show him the above in this posting. > Thanks for the feedback and advice. Any time. It sounds like you've got a no-win situation, though. Good luck. -- Gary Heston { uunet!sci34hub!gary } System Mismanager SCI Technology, Inc. OEM Products Department (i.e., computers) Hestons' First Law: I qualify virtually everything I say.
horne-scott@CS.YALE.EDU (Scott Horne) (02/15/90)
In article <1990Feb12.052427.4143@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: >In article <90042.134648LRL@PSUVM.BITNET>, LRL@psuvm (Linda Littleton) writes: < <<We run Netnews at a large (20,000 user) VM/CMS installation. We get a <<full feed and give read and post access to all users. With that many <<people involved, we've had some unfortunate situations where our users <<have posted inappropriate and/or offensive things. Offensive to whom? Who is to decide? < One possibility would be to restrict undergraduates to a <smaller distribution. Most of what undergraduates have to say is <of no interest to anyone anywhere anyway. This arrogant retort hardly merits refutation. --Scott Scott Horne ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne horne@cs.Yale.edu SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 203 436-1739 Residence: Rm 1739 Silliman College, Yale Univ Dare I speak for the amorphous gallimaufry of intellectual thought called Yale?
dave@compnect.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) (02/16/90)
In article <90043.092940LRL@PSUVM.BITNET>, LRL@psuvm.psu.edu (Linda Littleton) writes: > So far, in just one day, I've gotten over 20 answers to my question of > how to deal with users saying inappropriate things on the net. I will > summarize later, but for now see that I need to clarify the questions. > > 2a. Who issues the warnings and deals the user's appeals? Does this > generally befall the news administrator? > Should fall to the News Administrator. That's what he/sh is there for after all. > 2b. Do you wait for users to call bad stuff to your attention, or does > someone go looking for it? My system recieved over 4000 new articles last night. To 'go looking' for no-no's in all that traffic would take forever, not to mention out-bound traffic. THEN you have to decide just what constitutes a no-no. One person's no-no is another persons snicker. Probably best to handle things on an individual basis as they are objected to. > >3. What do you do when users complain about articles posted at another > > site? Our most recent complaint was against a rotated posting > > in rec.humor that contained racist, anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, > > foul language, and everything else. > > I should clarify that it way a high level professor who rot13'd the > message and then complained to my boss's boss's boss, who told me to > cancel the article. I did (just from our local system) and am wondering > how others would have handled this. > Your high level professor walked into the posting with both eyes open. He DE-ROTed it all by himself (no smoking gun pointed at his head) then proceeded to complain about the 'nasty stuff' he saw. Was the boss's boss's boss TOLD that it was an encoded posting? Since this is no major league big user system I run here, I would have just told him to leave the ROT13 stuff alone next time. Possibly the same action done with tact would have worked at your site (I have no tact, ask my friends :-) ) Personally, my feeling is that those who tread into the Usenet waters should be made aware that certain conditions exist. Some objectionable (to some) postings will turn up. If they don't want to read them, stay out of the newsgroups where they flourish (alt.sex, alt.flame, alt.humor, etc...). Remind them that in the real world, people DO use profanity in their conversation on occasion and that this too shall pass. Usenet is like a big party with hundreds of conversations going on all over the place. As with a party, if you overhear something you find objectionable, tell the person who posted it, wait to see how everyone else reacts, or move on to another group. Sometimes it's REAL nice running a small site..... *>> Dave <<* [------: Dave Ratcliffe :---------: UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!ka3adu!compnect!dave :-] : Small sites make it easier to : 2832 Croyden Rd. Harrisburg, Pa. 17104 : : be a net.policeman : Data: (717)657-4997 - (717)657-4992 : [.................................:...........................................] One of these days, I'm gonna ROT13 my .sig file
allen@sulaco.Sigma.COM (Allen Gwinn) (02/16/90)
In article <1990Feb12.052427.4143@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: [in response to Linda Littleton's article] > One possibility would be to restrict undergraduates to a >smaller distribution. Most of what undergraduates have to say is >of no interest to anyone anywhere anyway. The fact that so many >of them post from Penn State is making the site notorious. ...or better yet, just give a literacy exam. That might accomplish the same thing at PSU :-) -- Allen Gwinn sulaco!allen DISCLAIMER: The opinions, if any, are my own. "You insecure, obscure, homozygous adolecent. Take your plebe-infested, flea-bitten rectum to the closest 220VAC outlet, and learn the true meaning of the word flame." - Jim Thompson jthomp@central.sun.com
allen@sulaco.Sigma.COM (Allen Gwinn) (02/16/90)
In article <90042.134648LRL@PSUVM.BITNET> LRL@psuvm.psu.edu (Linda Littleton) writes: [wrt offensive articles posted/read on the net] >Our management is becoming increasingly concerned, perhaps (though I >think and hope they're bluffing) to the point of shutting down the whole >thing. I'd like to find out how other places handle these sorts of >things, in particular: >1. Do universities limit student posting in any way? I am one of the S.A.'s at SMU in Dallas. Shortly, I am going to bring a new machine up on line for our undergraduates to post from. There are no plans to limit any kinds of postings, or newsgroups. >2. How do you deal with a user who posts inappropriate stuff? What > kinds of things do you deem "inappropriate"? I, personally, feel that it is your right to say whatever you want to say. As far as content, if someone gets offended at something posted from this site (or someone at this site reads something that offends them) I feel that this is their problem. If it can't get them in legal trouble for saying it in the "Real World(tm)", then it probably won't get them into trouble here. Besides, the Net has ways of policing its own. You people at PSU ought to know that :-) However, back to the concept of "inappropriate", the only things that I would find "inappropriate" are things which could materially harm the network or pose technical problems. Examples might be: crossposting to umpteen zillion inappropriate newsgroups, forging "newgroup" messages, or just hacking around on it in general with the intent to do harm. Then, there is a strong possibility of action. >3. What do you do when users complain about articles posted at another > site? Our most recent complaint was against a rotated posting > in rec.humor that contained racist, anti-semitic, anti-homosexual, > foul language, and everything else. Nothing. Tell them not to unrot things, or read newsgroups that might offend them so. >4. Are there electronic filters for any of this? If so, do they just > look for specific "bad words" or are more sophisticated things > being done? Oh, I'm sure you could write most anything like that. But what would it accomplish? Are you going to be there in the "Real World(tm)" when these same people get offended? What do you do for them in that situation? >5. Our management is concerned that we could be sued for things our users > use our system to say or for things (said by users of other systems) > that our computer propogates. Is there any precedence for this? I don't think you have anything to worry about along these lines. I think that the legal responsibility would be on the writer of such an article much the same as if someone made a public statement of questionable content. However, I'm no lawyer (yes... I do have *some* ethics), so please consult your own for better advice. -- Allen Gwinn sulaco!allen DISCLAIMER: The opinions, if any, are my own.
bcurtis@mqccsunc.mqcc.mq.OZ (Brent Curtis) (02/16/90)
In article <1990Feb12.052427.4143@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: > One possibility would be to restrict undergraduates to a >smaller distribution. Most of what undergraduates have to say is >of no interest to anyone anywhere anyway. The fact that so many >of them post from Penn State is making the site notorious. I disagree. Undergrads are merely as bad as everyone else. I wouldn't over-generalize if I were you. Regarding the restriction of ugrad news, Macquarie only lets final year ugrads on to the net. I have no comment on this, I am merely reporting the state of student news at this university. Brent Curtis, who is _not_ an undergraduate. ACSNET : bcurtis@mqccsunc.mqcc.mq.oz.au D
tneff@bfmny0.UU.NET (Tom Neff) (02/16/90)
When posting is outlawed, only outlaws will post!
jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) (02/17/90)
In article <1646@umigw.MIAMI.EDU> wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) writes: > >One idea is to restrict distribution of new users, (including >undergrads) to local for n weeks. This spares the net from the >thousands of "test"s in active groups, and the "please subscribe >me to list" messages. The idea is that after such a time, they >may have read enough to avoid the worst of the mistakes. A >refinement might be that they had also spent x connect hours or >y cpu seconds in news. To: fedeva!premise!mirror!bu.edu!bu-cs!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!ncar!umigw!mthvax.cs.miami.edu!wb8foz Subject: Re: Do you restrict your users? Newsgroups: news.misc In-Reply-To: <1646@umigw.MIAMI.EDU> References: <90042.134648LRL@PSUVM.BITNET> <1990Feb12.052427.4143@agate.berkeley.edu> <1990Feb13.032400.4120@eng.umd.edu> Organization: Dynasys: Consulting for the Future. Cc: Bcc: In article <1646@umigw.MIAMI.EDU> you write: > >One idea is to restrict distribution of new users, (including >undergrads) to local for n weeks. This spares the net from the >thousands of "test"s in active groups, and the "please subscribe >me to list" messages. The idea is that after such a time, they >may have read enough to avoid the worst of the mistakes. A >refinement might be that they had also spent x connect hours or >y cpu seconds in news. It is silly to suggest that undergrads be restricted because they are undergrads - especially for the reason you state. What about grad students that have never been on the net? What you should say here is that those new to the net should be restricted for a certain amount of time before they are allowed to post. -- Jesse W. Asher - Dynasys - (901)382-1705 6196-1 Macon Rd., Suite 200, Memphis, TN 38134 UUCP: {uunet,fedeva,rayo,ddmtg1}!dynasys!jessea
jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) (02/17/90)
In article <1646@umigw.MIAMI.EDU> wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) writes: > >One idea is to restrict distribution of new users, (including >undergrads) to local for n weeks. This spares the net from the >thousands of "test"s in active groups, and the "please subscribe >me to list" messages. The idea is that after such a time, they >may have read enough to avoid the worst of the mistakes. A >refinement might be that they had also spent x connect hours or >y cpu seconds in news. It is silly to suggest that undergrads be restricted because they are undergrads - especially for the reason you state. What about grad students that have never been on the net? What you should say here is that those new to the net should be restricted for a certain amount of time before they are allowed to post. -- Jesse W. Asher - Dynasys - (901)382-1705 6196-1 Macon Rd., Suite 200, Memphis, TN 38134 UUCP: {uunet,fedeva,rayo,ddmtg1}!dynasys!jessea
jessea@dynasys.UUCP (Jesse W. Asher) (02/17/90)
In article <1990Feb13.103312.12941@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: >In article <1990Feb13.032400.4120@eng.umd.edu>, smaug@eng (Kurt >Lidl) writes: >>In article <1990Feb12.052427.4143@agate.berkeley.edu> >gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: ARTICLES EDITED FOR BREVITY > >>> One possibility would be to restrict undergraduates to a >>>smaller distribution. Most of what undergraduates have to say is >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>of no interest to anyone anywhere anyway. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>Let's hear it for bad generalizations in poor taste again. Didn't >>we just go through this 6 months ago? Just because someone doesn't >>have a degree doesn't make them inane conversationists or make >>their postings less valuable. > > That is not what I said, even if you take the hyperbole >literally. The point is, undergraduates are quite a bit more >likely to make inane, stupid or ignorant comments on the net. >This is not theory, this is observation. Penn State's policies Well, with that kind of logic, let's take it a bit further. Since undergrads tend to make more useless comments than grads, I guess that means that grads make more useless postings than those that have already attained their masters or Phds. So what we should do is limit postings from all who have not already attained a degree so we can keep all of the stupidity off of the net. Or perhaps we just just limit postings to those which have a Phd and/or have been reading usenet articles for a year. Which means you wouldn't have been able to post this inane article. Should have done it sooner. -- Jesse W. Asher - Dynasys - (901)382-1705 6196-1 Macon Rd., Suite 200, Memphis, TN 38134 UUCP: {uunet,fedeva,rayo,ddmtg1}!dynasys!jessea
gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) (02/18/90)
In article <49@dynasys.UUCP>, jessea@dynasys (Jesse W. Asher) writes: >Or perhaps we just just limit postings to those which have a Phd >and/or have been reading usenet articles for a year. Which means >you wouldn't have been able to post this inane article. Should >have done it sooner. You are making an unwarrented conclusion, I fear. I *would* have been able to post. You are evading the point, however, which is that Penn State's policies are counterproductive and have indeed been making the place a laughingstock. Or do you think that happend by accident? -- ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 "*That* the world is, is the mystical." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
tale@cs.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) (02/19/90)
In article <583@sci34hub.UUCP> gary@sci34hub.UUCP (Gary Heston) writes: > A news or site admin can explain to Joe User what the joys of rsh > are, which can do wonders to bringing someone in line. rsh == restricted shell. (That's for the sake of primarily BSD people like me who didn't quite understand on the first person why you were bringing remote commands into this. :-) > I'd tell boss's boss's boss to tell high professor to not bother him > with trivial complaints, they should go to the netadmin, which anyone > reading news should know to reach at site!postmaster. Don't count on it. The articles you are replying to are from BITNET and site!user might not even be understood there. It won't deliver local mail around here, either, because we don't do UUCP. (Yeah, yeah, we can hack up the cf. It's the _idea_ of it though. :-) Furthermore, if they're like many other larger sites then very possibly the postmaster isn't the news admin. I'm not the postmaster around here, which is something I quite appreciate. A better bet on many UNIX systems is to mail to "news" or "usenet". Even if the postmaster is the same person it is quite possible that she likes to keep different aspects of her job seperate. Dave
tjw@unix.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood WA3VQJ) (02/20/90)
In article <1990Feb18.092333.12242@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: >You are evading the point, however, which >is that Penn State's policies are counterproductive and have >indeed been making the place a laughingstock. Or do you think >that happend by accident? Where are the PSU people posting? I rarely see a PSU posting (other than the one that started this discussion). Perhaps I don't read the right newsgroups. Where are you guys seeing them? Rec.autos? Terry -- INTERNET: tjw@unix.cis.pitt.edu BITNET: TJW@PITTVMS CC-NET: 33802::tjw UUCP: {decwrl!decvax!idis, allegra, bellcore}!pitt!unix.cis.pitt.edu!tjw And if dreams could come true, I'd still be there with you, On the banks of cold waters at the close of the day. - Craig Johnson
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (02/20/90)
I agree with Craig... pitt seems no greater a source of bogus articles
than any other university. How about the reposting storms udel seems to
generate every six months or so?
--
_--_|\ Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>.
/ \
\_.--._/ Xenix Support -- it's not just a job, it's an adventure!
v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-'ambar@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Jean Marie Diaz) (02/21/90)
From: tjw@unix.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood WA3VQJ) Date: 20 Feb 90 03:34:33 GMT In article <1990Feb18.092333.12242@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: >You are evading the point, however, which >is that Penn State's policies are counterproductive and have >indeed been making the place a laughingstock. Where are the PSU people posting? alt.sex.*, mostly, and they are indeed a laughingstock. AMBAR ambar@bloom-beacon.mit.edu {mit-eddie,uunet}!bloom-beacon!ambar "Kitten: small homicidal muffin on legs; affects human sensibilities to the point of endowing the most wanton and ruthless acts of destruction with near-mythical overtones of cuteness. Not recommended for beginners. Get at least two." -- strata@psyche.mit.edu
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (02/21/90)
I said: > How about the reposting storms udel seems to generate every six months > or so? Apparently the reposting problems are due to some adjacent BITNET sites with misbehaving mailing lists, not UDEL itself. I apologise. -- _--_|\ Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>. / \ \_.--._/ Xenix Support -- it's not just a job, it's an adventure! v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-'
cudep@warwick.ac.uk (Ian Dickinson) (03/01/90)
In article <1990Feb18.092333.12242@agate.berkeley.edu> gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) writes: >is that Penn State's policies are counterproductive and have >indeed been making the place a laughingstock. Or do you think >that happend by accident? I think that PSU had good intentions with their policy. I also think that one batch of bad apples has spoilt their reputation. I see a fair number of 'worthwhile' articles from PSU undergrads. Here at Warwick University, anyone with a Unix account can post without any restrictions. And any person who wants an account can have one, if they are at the University. We don't have much trouble, and the reason for this is (IMHO) that the net-at-large is seen as just another tool, and most of our users only read the news. However, at another site where I am also news admin, but not supported by the Computing Services Centre, I see a frightening amount of rubbish, abusive and childish articles, because (IMHO) on the whole, the undergrads are treated badly, and denied access to resources such as the net-at-large. This has lead to confrontation, and a lack of user education on how to behave. I intend limiting their distribution until the news has been in place for a period, hopefully not too long, and then crossing fingers! -- \/ato. *NIX gives good head. Support the FSF. Plinth. Sabeq. Brick. Log. vato@warwick.ac.uk "We shall fight with the most deadly vato@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk weapon known to man - Inaction!" gdd046@cck.cov.ac.uk "Careful with that VAX, Eugene!" - Bill Stewart