jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") (01/30/91)
xposted to news.misc for lack of news.politics In article <15377@milton.u.washington.edu> cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes: >[regards to Townson's running of comp.dcom.telecom.] >Is this person biased, or what? Yes, he certainly is. Luckily, it's to the point where it's painfully obvious that he's strongly biased. Moderating a newsgroup is a bully pulpit, for sure. >... I'm alarmed, because this newsgroup, comp.dcom.telecom, >wields a lot of informational power. But what to do about this? 0. People could ask Townson to not put snide comments in articles he disagrees with. Failing that, 1. comp.dcom.telecom could be kicked into unmoderated mode. 2. A new moderator could be found, but Townson knows a lot about this stuff, so it might not be easy to find someone as skilled. Given ignorance or opinions, I'd prefer the former. The only real job of a moderator is to keep the subject on the topic, correct? -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2120 "It is the cunning of form to veil itself continually in the evidence of content. It is the cunning of the code to veil itself and to produce itself in the obviousness of value." -- Baudrillard
milton@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Milton D Miller) (01/30/91)
In article <1991Jan30.000852.10527@lavaca.uh.edu> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") writes: > >xposted to news.misc for lack of news.politics > >In article <15377@milton.u.washington.edu> cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes: >>[regards to Townson's running of comp.dcom.telecom.] >>Is this person biased, or what? > >Yes, he certainly is. Luckily, it's to the point where it's painfully >obvious that he's strongly biased. Moderating a newsgroup is a bully >pulpit, for sure. > >>... I'm alarmed, because this newsgroup, comp.dcom.telecom, >>wields a lot of informational power. But what to do about this? > >0. People could ask Townson to not put snide comments in articles >he disagrees with. > >Failing that, >1. comp.dcom.telecom could be kicked into unmoderated mode. > >2. A new moderator could be found, but Townson knows a lot about this >stuff, so it might not be easy to find someone as skilled. Given >ignorance or opinions, I'd prefer the former. The only real job >of a moderator is to keep the subject on the topic, correct? > >-- >J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2120 >"It is the cunning of form to veil itself continually in the evidence >of content. It is the cunning of the code to veil itself and to produce >itself in the obviousness of value." -- Baudrillard 3. Use alt.dcom.telecom (created within the last two weeks or so). milton
jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck) (01/30/91)
In article <1991Jan30.000852.10527@lavaca.uh.edu>, jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") writes: > 2. A new moderator could be found, but Townson knows a lot about this > stuff, so it might not be easy to find someone as skilled. Given > ignorance or opinions, I'd prefer the former. The only real job > of a moderator is to keep the subject on the topic, correct? That depends; on some moderated newsgroups, that's all the moderator does; on others, the moderator's personality is strongly reflected throughout (comp.risks, for example). There's no rule about it. Many of the groups with dominant moderators evolved out of mailing lists, and when people signed up for the mailing list, that's how it was (risks and telecom both fit into this category); there's no reason to expect every moderated group to be moderated the same way. As for me, I'd choose opinions over ignorance any day of the week, even though I often disagree with Townson. I would prefer it if moderators would restrain themselves from commenting on every little thing, though. It's annoying. It could be worse: he could insert bad puns after every article like Peter Neumann does in comp.risks! -- Joe Buck jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu {uunet,ucbvax}!galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck
peter@ficc.ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) (01/30/91)
In article <1991Jan30.000852.10527@lavaca.uh.edu> jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") writes: > Yes, he certainly is. Luckily, it's to the point where it's painfully > obvious that he's strongly biased. > >But what to do about this? >0., 1., 2. 3. Since his bias is honest and open, simply keep it in mind and put up with it. There is an alt.dcom.telecom for equal time for the folks who really really want it. Personally, I have less problem with Pat than some other moderators who seem awfully quick to reject articles on the grounds that they perceieve them to be largely repeating other messages that they have recieved (but not yet posted) on the subject. 4. Comp.dcom.telecom could be removed, and the TELECOM digest could remain purely as a mailing list. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' peter@ferranti.com +1 713 274 5180. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
hwt@bwdlh490.BNR.CA (Henry Troup) (01/31/91)
Sure, he's so biased about Caller Id he set up a whole mailing list for discussing it! Why, if we was any more biased, he'd have created an unmoderated group for discussing Caller Id! Caller Id postings are still accepted in comp.dcom.telecom - provided they are on technical matters. Discussions/flame wars on the pros and cons are referred to the mailing list. Now grow up, eh! Henry Troup - BNR owns but does not share my opinions | The .signature is the P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1Y 4H7| lowest form of humour uunet!bnrgate!hwt%bwdlh490 HWT@BNR.CA +1 613-765-2337 |
jet@karazm.math.uh.edu ("J. Eric Townsend") (01/31/91)
In article <10590@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> jbuck@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck) writes: >As for me, I'd choose opinions over ignorance any day of the week, even >though I often disagree with Townson. I would prefer it if moderators I was thinking of sci.virtual-worlds, where the moderator is pretty hands off, but occasionally reminds us that we're straying off the topic. -- J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - bitnet: jet@UHOU - vox: (713) 749-2120 "It is the cunning of form to veil itself continually in the evidence of content. It is the cunning of the code to veil itself and to produce itself in the obviousness of value." -- Baudrillard
syd@DSI.COM (Syd Weinstein) (01/31/91)
Let's not forget that comp.dcom.telecom is not a USENET news group per se, its just a convienent way for USENET readers to receive the mailing list TELECOM DIGEST. Pat is not bound by USENET conventions at all, he is just being kind enough to run the gateway between the mailing list and network news himself. (He didn't use to run it himself, but...) Can a mailing list moderator be biased. Sure, and if the people don't like his bias, they leave the list and form another. -- ===================================================================== Sydney S. Weinstein, CDP, CCP Elm Coordinator Datacomp Systems, Inc. Voice: (215) 947-9900 syd@DSI.COM or dsinc!syd FAX: (215) 938-0235
louisg@vpnet.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto) (02/02/91)
My personal viewpoint is that the moderator has a right, just as anyone else to give his opinions. Because he is moderator does not mean he is stripped of his right of free speech. What I do have a problem with is the moderator either 1) stifling messages because he does not agree with them or 2) inserting his comments into the original message. This is tampering with other persons' rights. However, if the moderator responds in the normal way, he is merely expressing his opinion like everyone else. His job is to moderate, not to be an impartial judge. To stifle messages or tamper with them in any way is to abuse one's power and to violate a user's rights if the cause is to further one's own opinion. That's my $.02 Louis Giliberto louisg@vpnet.chi.il.us
cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) (02/03/91)
Pat and I have settled this offline, so I would appreciate it if the conversation on this topic ended. He has a right to run his conference as he chooses. I would not choose to run my conference like that, and I will probably be using his conference less as a result of our respec- tive different points of view. I think it is just as fair for a participant to point out apparent bias in a newsgroup, and seek a constructive response from other netliners, as it is for a moderator to exercise his right to free speech. Now that all the points have been covered, maybe it's time to press on with more substantive issues. Thanks for posting your feelings. Bob Jacobson (Moderator, sci.virtual-worlds)