rjnoe@uniq.UUCP (Roger J. Noe) (12/18/86)
As USENET administrator at this site I got some mail sent back from the local backbone that looks like it points to a 2.11 rnews bug in the way moderated newsgroups are handled. Here's the mail: > From postmaster Tue Dec 16 18:13:57 1986 remote from ihnp4 > From: ihnp4!postmaster > Full-Name: Mail Delivery Subsystem > Subject: Returned mail: User unknown > Received: by ihnp4.ATT.COM id AA08036; 16 Dec 86 18:13:57 CST (Tue) > To: uniq!news > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 550 mod-politics... User unknown > > ----- Unsent message follows ----- > From: uniq!news > Received: by ihnp4.ATT.COM id AA08015; 16 Dec 86 18:13:57 CST (Tue) > Date: 16 Dec 86 23:18:43 GMT > To: mod-politics > Subject: Submission for mod-politics > Responding-System: uniq.UUCP > > Path: uniq!ihnp4!dual!paul > From: paul@dual.UUCP (Baker) > Newsgroups: mod.politics > Subject: Re: Reply to Rich Cowan > Summary: More Libertarian bullshit > Message-ID: <1353@dual.UUCP> > Date: 16 Dec 86 16:16:41 GMT > References: <12263063217.2.MCGREW@RED.RUTGERS.EDU> > Organization: Dual Systems, Berkeley, CA > Lines: 14 (I've deleted the body of the article for brevity; it did not look munged in any way.) Here's what was in LIBDIR/log for this time (there may have been a "Newsgroups in active, but not sys" message in here - I delete all such lines daily from both the log and errlog): Dec 16 17:18 ihnp4 received <1353@dual.UUCP> ng mod.politics subj 'Re: Reply to Rich Cowan' from paul@dual.UUCP (Baker) Dec 16 17:19 ihnp4 Article mailed to ihnp4!mod-politics I also noted the Message-ID <1353@dual.UUCP> did not get into LIBDIR/history. Somehow rnews got to thinking that this article was posted locally or something like that. We do have SPOOLNEWS #defined, so maybe that has something to do with it (this would of course have been when rnews -U was running). Now we do receive several mod.* groups by the way the local site line of the sys file is set up, but mod.politics is not one of them. For the ones we do receive, we actually get articles correctly installed there. I have verified that for other mod.* groups we don't receive (not in our line of LIBDIR/sys), they get tossed into junk. I don't think anyone at this site has tried posting to a mod.* group since we've installed 2.11 news (and we do have the first patch in, by the way). Here's the line from the LIBDIR/active file: mod.politics 00001 00001 m and mod.politics doesn't appear in LIBDIR/aliases. Here's LIBDIR/mailpaths: backbone ihnp4!%s internet ihnp4!%s Which also looks right, assuming ihnp4 has mail aliases for moderated groups (it sort of looks like it doesn't). And here's the outgoing news line from our LIBDIR/sys file: ihnp4:world,na,usa,il,chi,to.ihnp4,net,comp,misc,news,rec,sci,soc,talk:L: Which probably doesn't matter anyway; I just wanted to note that "mod" groups don't appear in the line to the backbone site. This is a PDP-11/44 running UNIX System V Release 2.0. I'll try digging into the code to see what's happening, but likely someone experienced in looking at rnews will find and fix this before I can post a solution. Please contact me if I can supply more details to clarify the situation. Roger Noe ihnp4!uniq!rjnoe Uniq Digital Technologies rjnoe@uniq.UUCP 28 South Water Street +1 312 879 1566 Batavia, Illinois 60510 41:50:58 N. 88:18:35 W.
rjnoe@uniq.UUCP (Roger J. Noe) (12/18/86)
In article <221@uniq.UUCP>, rjnoe@uniq.UUCP (Roger J. Noe) writes: > As USENET administrator at this site I got some mail sent back from the local > backbone that looks like it points to a 2.11 rnews bug in the way moderated > newsgroups are handled. . . . > > Here's what was in LIBDIR/log for this time . . . > > Dec 16 17:18 ihnp4 received <1353@dual.UUCP> ng mod.politics subj 'Re: Reply to Rich Cowan' from paul@dual.UUCP (Baker) > Dec 16 17:19 ihnp4 Article mailed to ihnp4!mod-politics > > . . . . Here's LIBDIR/mailpaths: > > backbone ihnp4!%s > internet ihnp4!%s > > Which also looks right, assuming ihnp4 has mail aliases for moderated groups This was easier to track down than I thought it would be, mostly because it happened a second time (but with a different group, mod.mac). When our rnews receives an article in a moderated group and no Approved: header line included, it executes the code found around line 746 in inews.c (version 2.70, 11/21/86). The first executable code after the block declarations is enclosed in an #ifdef not mentioned by any of the installation notes: #ifdef DONTFOWARD if(mode == PROC) { logerr("Unapproved article in moderated group %s", is_mod); if (localize("junk")) savehist(histline); goto writeout; } #endif /* DONTFORWARD */ I don't know if the spelling DONTFOWARD in line 752 is intentional or not. In any event, this code doesn't get included in our inews/rnews. It looks to me like it should. Why was it #ifdef'd out in the first place? Is there something wrong with the code? Without this, the code following it is executed upon receipt/posting of an article in a moderated group if not approved. That code prints out a message to stderr, pulls the backbone line from the LIBDIR/mailpaths file and mails the offending article to the moderated newsgroup alias on the backbone. This is obviously what should happen for an article posted from the local site, not one received from another site. #defining DONTFORWARD wouldn't change this action, would it? I guess I have a few questions that beg to be answered: 1. Why was DONTFORWARD used to exclude the above code? 2. Why was DONTFORWARD left out of the 2.11 news installation notes? Is it just an oversight or should it not be used? 3. Why is a site that apparently runs 2.11 news (ihnp4) sending on unapproved articles in moderated newsgroups? 4. Why does backbone site ihnp4 not have mail aliases for the moderated groups? Does this mean that I *do* have to maintain a moderators list and have a line for every different moderator in my LIBDIR/mailpaths file? Thanks for the help. Roger Noe ihnp4!uniq!rjnoe Uniq Digital Technologies rjnoe@uniq.UUCP 28 South Water Street +1 312 879 1566 Batavia, Illinois 60510 41:50:56 N. 88:18:35 W.
rick@seismo.CSS.GOV (Rick Adams) (12/18/86)
ihnp4 is not an official backbone site that handles those aliases. You need to correct your mailpaths file to send the "backbone" mail to somewhere else. seismo at least handles it. I don't have the complete list. ---rick
spaf@gatech.EDU (Gene Spafford) (12/19/86)
In article <222@uniq.UUCP> rjnoe@uniq.UUCP (Roger J. Noe) writes: >I guess I have a few questions that beg to be answered: > 1. Why was DONTFORWARD used to exclude the above code? Because we intend the default behavior the way it is in order to keep sites running pre-2.11 news from mucking up. If the default behavior were to simply throw the article into the bit bucket, posting attempts from sites with faulty flags in their active files or faulty software might just lose their postings. This way, the postings don't get circulated but they *do* get to the moderator rather quickly and can then be posted correctly. The ifdef'd code is there for the sites in Europe, mostly, where they don't want this behavior. > 2. Why was DONTFORWARD left out of the 2.11 news installation > notes? Is it just an oversight or should it not be used? It shouldn't be used by sites in North America. I assume it was left out as an oversight. > 3. Why is a site that apparently runs 2.11 news (ihnp4) sending > on unapproved articles in moderated newsgroups? Well, at a guess, either ihnp4 isn't running 2.11 news, or they don't have the moderated flag (field 4 in "active") set properly for the moderated groups. I'd suspect the later. > 4. Why does backbone site ihnp4 not have mail aliases for the > moderated groups? Does this mean that I *do* have to maintain > a moderators list and have a line for every different moderator > in my LIBDIR/mailpaths file? It means that ihnp4 is not one of the backbone sites supporting the aliases for moderated groups. You don't have to keep a separate line for each group (unless you want to). I will post something soon that will list the syntax of the mailpaths file and list the sites maintaining official mail aliases for the moderated groups. For the moment, you might want to one of these sites: cbatt, clyde, cuae2, gatech, seismo, sdcsvax, hao, uw-beaver and watmath. -- Gene Spafford Software Engineering Research Center (SERC), Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf@gatech.EDU uucp: ...!{akgua,decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!spaf
jso@edison.GE.COM (John Owens) (12/19/86)
In article <221@uniq.UUCP>, rjnoe@uniq.UUCP (Roger J. Noe) writes: > > From: ihnp4!postmaster > > To: uniq!news > > 550 mod-politics... User unknown > Dec 16 17:18 ihnp4 received <1353@dual.UUCP> ng mod.politics subj 'Re: Reply to Rich Cowan' from paul@dual.UUCP (Baker) > Dec 16 17:19 ihnp4 Article mailed to ihnp4!mod-politics > > I also noted the Message-ID <1353@dual.UUCP> did not get into LIBDIR/history. > Somehow rnews got to thinking that this article was posted locally or something > like that. 2.11 news will do this if there is no Approved: line in the article. Somehow that article got posted to mod.politics either without an approved line, or it got stripped off at some point. This doesn't explain why ihnp4 doesn't have the "mod-politics" alias that it should have. John Owens Old Dominion University - Norfolk, Virginia, USA john@ODU.EDU old arpa: john%odu.edu@RELAY.CS.NET +1 804 440 3915 old uucp: {seismo,decuac,cbosgd,uvacs}!xanth!john
dhp@ihlpa.UUCP (Douglas H. Price) (12/20/86)
> > 3. Why is a site that apparently runs 2.11 news (ihnp4) sending > > on unapproved articles in moderated newsgroups? > > > > 4. Why does backbone site ihnp4 not have mail aliases for the > > moderated groups? Ihnp4 is currently running news 2.11, patch level #0. I just checked the active file and indeed the moderated groups hadn't been set up correctly. This has been fixed. We hope to come up to patch level #2 next week (with luck). We will also be investigating supporting the moderated group mail aliases. At the moment, ihnp4 does not support them. -- Douglas H. Price Analysts International Corp. @ AT&T Bell Laboratories ..!ihnp4!ihlpa!dhp
gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (12/31/86)
In article <8076@gatech.EDU>, spaf@gatech.EDU (Gene Spafford) writes: > ...ihnp4 is not one of the backbone sites supporting the > aliases for moderated groups. ...For the moment, you > might want to one of these sites: cbatt, clyde, cuae2, gatech, seismo, > sdcsvax, hao, uw-beaver and watmath. Now there are two classes of backbone sites? Ones that "do" and ones that "don't"? Only your news links know for sure... :-; -- John Gilmore {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@ingres.berkeley.edu I forsee a day when there are two kinds of C compilers: standard ones and useful ones ... just like Pascal and Fortran. Are we making progress yet? -- ASC:GUTHERY%slb-test.csnet
jbuck@epimass.UUCP (Joe Buck) (12/31/86)
In article <8076@gatech.EDU>, spaf@gatech.EDU (Gene Spafford) writes: >> ...ihnp4 is not one of the backbone sites supporting the >> aliases for moderated groups. ...For the moment, you >> might want to one of these sites: cbatt, clyde, cuae2, gatech, seismo, >> sdcsvax, hao, uw-beaver and watmath. In article <1599@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >Now there are two classes of backbone sites? Ones that "do" and ones >that "don't"? Only your news links know for sure... :-; Your news links don't know either. The installation documentation says that "backbone" should be a mail path "to a Usenet backbone site". The only source of information anyone had on what a backbone site is is the backbone map occasionally posted by Gene. Really, Gene, how was anyone supposed to know which sites could be used for this purpose? Seems putting ihnp4 in that field was just obeying the instructions in the installation manual. Thanks for the list given above, but it doesn't look that official ("you might want to ..."). We news administrators need a regularly posted, official list so this scheme can work. Also, none of your listed sites are in the Bay Area, even though several moderators are. This will hardly promote efficient mail paths. -- - Joe Buck {hplabs,ihnp4,sun}!oliveb!epimass!jbuck HASA (A,S) Entropic Processing, Inc., Cupertino, California
mark@cbosgd.ATT.COM (Mark Horton) (01/02/87)
In article <786@epimass.UUCP> jbuck@epimass.UUCP (Joe Buck) writes: >The installation documentation says that "backbone" should be a mail >path "to a Usenet backbone site". The only source of information >anyone had on what a backbone site is is the backbone map >occasionally posted by Gene. Really, Gene, how was anyone supposed >to know which sites could be used for this purpose? Seems putting >ihnp4 in that field was just obeying the instructions in the >installation manual. > >Thanks for the list given above, but it doesn't look that official >("you might want to ..."). We news administrators need a regularly >posted, official list so this scheme can work. Also, none of your >listed sites are in the Bay Area, even though several moderators are. >This will hardly promote efficient mail paths. See the monthly message "How to construct the mailpaths file", posted to news.lists. It will always have the correct official list. This posting didn't exist before, but Gene has been working on it for several weeks, and the first posting occurred Jan 1. It's message 19 on our system, and since news.lists is a new group, it's probably around 19 on yours, too. By the way, according to the arbitron stats, only 58% of the sites are getting news.lists - if your site isn't, check your active file, log file, junk dir, and upstream, to find out why. While you're at it, check for mod.announce - the stats say only 94% of the sites are getting it. There has been recent traffic in both (although mod.announce is very low volume - 2 messages in December.) Mark
reid@decwrl.DEC.COM (Brian Reid) (01/03/87)
decwrl is a moderated group relay site, and always has been. Furthermore, Gene knows this. I don't understand why he left it out of the posting. We do not do what Gene calls "internet" mail relaying, though; this is because we are a true Internet site and we use the true Internet protocols, rather than the uucp variant of those protocols that the "internet relay host" mechanism implies.
tron@nsc.NSC.COM (Ronald S. Karr) (01/06/87)
In article <1599@hoptoad.uucp> gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) writes: >Now there are two classes of backbone sites? Ones that "do" and ones >that "don't"? Only your news links know for sure... :-; Personally, I decided to just use the moderator lists sent out over mod.newslists and news.lists (or whatever it is) to make the aliases myself. We are hardly an official site and we can be as much over a month out of date (or more). But it is better than nothing. Thus, I guess NSC is now an unofficial backbone site :-). -- tron |-<=>-| ARPAnet: nsc!tron@sun.COM tron@sc.nsc.com UUCPnet: {amdahl,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,sun}!nsc!tron
simon@einode.UUCP (Simon Kenyon) (01/07/87)
tron@nsc.NSC.COM (Ronald S. Karr): > Personally, I decided to just use the moderator lists sent out over > mod.newslists and news.lists (or whatever it is) to make the aliases > myself. We are hardly an official site and we can be as much over a > month out of date (or more). But it is better than nothing. Thus, > I guess NSC is now an unofficial backbone site :-). well, here at the NSC (National Software Centre) we are an offical backbone site :-) -- Simon Kenyon EUnet: simon@einode.UUCP Smail: The National Software Centre, Dublin, IRELAND Phone: +353-1-716255
tron@nsc.NSC.COM (Ronald S. Karr) (01/09/87)
In article <281@einode.UUCP> simon@einode.UUCP (Simon Kenyon) writes: >tron@nsc.NSC.COM (Ronald S. Karr): >> myself. We are hardly an official site and we can be as much over a >> month out of date (or more). But it is better than nothing. Thus, >> I guess NSC is now an unofficial backbone site :-). > >well, here at the NSC (National Software Centre) we are an offical backbone >site :-) >-- >Simon Kenyon >EUnet: simon@einode.UUCP >Smail: The National Software Centre, Dublin, IRELAND >Phone: +353-1-716255 Hey that's pretty neat. I wonder what the NSC (National Security Council) thinks of all this? -- tron |-<=>-| ARPAnet: nsc!tron@sun.COM tron@sc.nsc.com UUCPnet: {amdahl,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,sun}!nsc!tron