bob@acornrc.UUCP (06/04/87)
In the past couple of days, messages destined for some apparently new
newsgroups have been coming in and getting junked because we haven't
gotten newgroup messages for them. Are these for real? They are:
comp.lang.postscript
comp.software-eng
comp.protocols.iso
comp.protocols.iso.dev-environ
sci.lang.japan
soc.culture.japan
soc.culture.esperanto
(And who can tell me why esperanto is under soc.culture instead of sci.lang?)
--
Bob Weissman
Internet: bob@acornrc.UUCP
UUCP: ...!{ ames | decwrl | oliveb | apple }!acornrc!bob
Arpanet: bob%acornrc.UUCP@AMES.ARPAmangoe@mimsy.UUCP (06/04/87)
Not only are articles showing up here, somehow we have these groups appearing without any trace of newgroup in any obvious place; we also have a plethora of junked articles. As far as I can tell, these correspond in every case to ARPA mailing lists. C. Wingate
mlandau@diamond.bbn.com.UUCP (06/05/87)
A couple of weeks ago, a lot of the Arpanet (or other internet) sites that use NNTP as their news transport system got together and decided to propogate Arpanet mailing lists as newsgroups among themselves. They (we) created a new distribution called "inet", sent out newgroup messages for the new groups to the inet distribution, and have started sending mailing list messages via NNTP among the sites participating in the inet distribution. Somehow, these messages are also getting propogated to sites outside the inet distribution (perhaps because of the prevalence of "all" in sys files?) Erik (Fair @ Berkeley), do you know what's going on, and what we ought to do to stop the leakage? Is this a problem due to pre-2.11 sites whose software doesn't understand distributions? (I remember the need to upgrade to 2.11 being an issue when the inet distribution was first proposed...are there some NNTP sites that are NOT yet running 2.11?) -- Matt Landau "Lead me not into temptation... mlandau@diamond.bbn.com I can find it myself."
gnu@hoptoad.UUCP (06/05/87)
Some Arpanet sites have started a new distribution "inet" and are
passing around a bunch of the common mailing lists via NNTP, as
newsgroups. This should reduce the load on the Arpanet and make it
easier for folks there to separate personal mail and mailing list mail,
as we Usenetters do with the mail/news distinction. Erik Fair
(fair@berkeley.edu, or ucbvax!fair) is coordinating this process.
If your site is receiving messages in strange new groups that you've
never heard of (typically these messages go into the "junk" newsgroup),
AND the "Distribution:" line of the messages says "inet", send Erik a
message including the header of one sample article. Probably there are
just a few Internet sites where these messages are "leaking" out by
accident, and examining the headers will quickly point out the culprit(s).
I also recommend notifying the news feed you received the messages from;
they should not be feeding you the "inet" distribution, and if they aren't
on the Internet, they shouldn't be receiving it from THEIR feed either.
If you *like* the messages you are seeing, you could send a message to the
person who maintains the mailing list (see news.lists for the periodically
posted List of Lists). It's probably best to get on the list by email
until the "inet" distribution settles down and people figure out how
to gateway the stuff out to interested folks who aren't on the Internet.
I recommend that no matter what your site, if your sys file lines for
feeds have "all" specified, that you replace "all" with:
net,comp,news,sci,rec,misc,soc,talk,world,
and whatever local distributions are relevant, e.g. for me it's
na,usa,ba,ca
This is what will plug the leaks (or any future leaks that might occur.)
--
Copyright 1987 John Gilmore; you may redistribute only if your recipients may.
(This is an effort to bend Stargate to work with Usenet, not against it.)
{sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4,ucbvax}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@ingres.berkeley.edufair@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (06/05/87)
So! Your site just got newgroups for 83 new newsgroups and you never saw any discussion. Well, that's leakage from the Internet. The plan is very simple: netnews is a terrific conferencing system, why use mailing lists? So we're making newsgroups for every mailing list that is in the ARPANET List of Lists, and gatewaying those lists to the newsgroups at Berkeley (yours truly is coordinating the gateway). This stuff is all going out with distribution "inet" (for Internet) so that the general USENET doesn't see it (in theory). If you're on the ARPA Internet somewhere and you got the newgroup messages, relax, you were supposed to get them. If you don't want them, contact your netnews feed, and ask them to fix their "sys" file so you don't get them. This was all discussed on the nntp-manangers mailing list (archives available for public FTP from ucbarpa.berkeley.edu in pub/NNTP-Managers.arch, right now about 150K). If you're not on the ARPA Internet, but you DO want this stuff, find someone on the Internet and ask them to send you the distribution "inet". For those of you out on USENET far away from the nearest Internet node, I will send out the list of mailing list to newsgroup gateways. If enough of the USENET decides that they want a group, I can trivially remove the distribution so you can all get it (or not). I do plan on coordinating this with the backbone group so that they don't get inundated. The plan I have for the "inet" distribution is to track the ARPANET List of Lists as closely as possible. When a mailing list goes moderated, so will its "inet" equivalent. If a list disappears (and they do from time to time, usually due to lack of interest) so also will the "inet" group disappear. And when new mailing lists appear, so will an "inet" distribution newsgroups. The win for those of you who are site postmasters should be obvious: mailing list administration for those groups that are gatewayed into newsgroups goes away. No more bouncing mail. No more adding/deleting users from a centrally maintained list. Less network traffic (one message copy per Organization/LAN comes in by netnews; can be as many as one per user/host pair with a mailing list). NNTP service with a :-) Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair fair@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu
bob@acornrc.UUCP (06/05/87)
In article <6341@garnet.BBN.COM>, mlandau@Diamond.BBN.COM (Matt Landau) writes: > propogate Arpanet mailing lists as newsgroups among themselves. They (we) > created a new distribution called "inet", sent out newgroup messages for the > new groups to the inet distribution, and have started sending mailing list > > Erik (Fair @ Berkeley), do you know what's going on, and what we ought to do > to stop the leakage? Is this a problem due to pre-2.11 sites whose software The newgroup control messages may have been sent to distribution "inet", but the articles themselves have more mundane distributions like "world", "usa", etc. This explains the mystery. On the other hand, why is "stopping the leakage" the right thing to do rather than issuing correct newgroup messages? Personally, I welcome (at least) comp.software-eng and comp.lang.postscript as useful new groups and have established them locally. -- Bob Weissman Internet: bob@acornrc.UUCP UUCP: ...!{ ames | decwrl | oliveb | apple }!acornrc!bob Arpanet: bob%acornrc.UUCP@AMES.ARPA
bandy@amdcad.UUCP (06/05/87)
A good number of the articles that I'm getting (via ames) either have no
Distribution: header at all or have a "usa" distribution. This means that
ames is correct in sending the articles but someone or someone's software
should be inserting a distribution of "inet".
andy
--
Andrew Scott Beals, {lll-crg,decwrl,allegra}!amdcad!bandy +1 408 749 3683Karl.Kleinpaste@cbstr1.att.com (06/05/87)
Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.44.1 of Mon May 18 1987 on cbstr1 (usg-unix-v)
mlandau@Diamond.BBN.COM writes:
to stop the leakage? Is this a problem due to pre-2.11 sites whose software
doesn't understand distributions?
If it matters, we're getting the articles, but not the newgroups, and
we run 2.11.
Karljef@unisoft.uucp (Jef Poskanzer) (06/05/87)
In the referenced article, gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) wrote: >If your site is receiving messages in strange new groups that you've >never heard of (typically these messages go into the "junk" newsgroup), >AND the "Distribution:" line of the messages says "inet", send Erik a >message including the header of one sample article. Actually, it's not quite that simple. I've appended the relevant header lines from the recent messages in unisoft's junk group. As you can see, there's not an inet among 'em. --- Jef Jef Poskanzer unisoft!jef@ucbvax.Berkeley.Edu ...ucbvax!unisoft!jef "We Americans, we're a simple people... but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities." -- Robin Williams - - - - - - - - - - Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!lll-tis!ames!rutgers!uwvax!oddjob!sphinx!pre1 Newsgroups: comp.sys.zenith Message-ID: <1877@sphinx.uchicago.edu> Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!ames!ll-xn!mit-eddie!gatech!gitpyr!allen Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript Message-ID: <3677@gitpyr.gatech.EDU> Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!lll-tis!ames!sri-spam!rutgers!super.upenn.edu!operations.dccs.upenn.edu!shaffer Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <1272@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> Sender: root@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!ames!husc6!sri-unix!teknowledge-vaxc!mkhaw Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <13312@teknowledge-vaxc.ARPA> Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!ames!husc6!diamond.bbn.com!mlandau Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <6288@garnet.BBN.COM> Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!lll-tis!ames!cit-vax!oberon!pollux.usc.edu!garg Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <2508@pollux.usc.edu> Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!ames!think!husc6!mit-eddie!gatech!seismo!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!lord+ Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <oUkzRKy00UoNydw0HX@andrew.cmu.edu> Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!rutgers!super.upenn.edu!operations.dccs.upenn.edu!shaffer Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <1279@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> Sender: root@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!rutgers!super.upenn.edu!operations.dccs.upenn.edu!shaffer Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso Message-ID: <1280@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> Sender: root@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!rutgers!super.upenn.edu!operations.dccs.upenn.edu!shaffer Newsgroups: comp.protocols.iso.dev-environ Message-ID: <1281@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> Sender: root@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!mordor!sri-spam!rutgers!uwvax!rhesus!uwmacc!edwards Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <1582@uwmacc.UUCP> Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!mordor!sri-spam!rutgers!seismo!rochester!ken Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <28263@rochester.ARPA> Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!mordor!sri-spam!rutgers!husc6!uwvax!oddjob!sphinx!fla7 Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <1891@sphinx.uchicago.edu> Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!mordor!lll-tis!ames!sdcsvax!ucbvax!ernie.Berkeley.EDU!seltzer Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan Message-ID: <19232@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: world Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!mordor!lll-tis!ames!husc6!uwvax!oddjob!sphinx!bur5 Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto Message-ID: <1894@sphinx.uchicago.edu> Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!mordor!lll-tis!ames!husc6!seismo!gatech!gitpyr!ofut Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <3684@gitpyr.gatech.EDU> Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!mordor!lll-tis!ames!husc6!seismo!mcnc!unc!steele Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <518@unc.cs.unc.edu> Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!lll-tis!ames!rutgers!super.upenn.edu!operations.dccs.upenn.edu!shaffer Newsgroups: comp.simulation.military Message-ID: <1286@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> Sender: root@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!ames!sri-spam!jeffr Newsgroups: comp.simulation.military Message-ID: <10323@sri-spam.istc.sri.com> Distribution: usa Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!lll-tis!ames!rutgers!gatech!mcnc!unc!rentsch Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <528@unc.cs.unc.edu> Path: unisoft!lll-lcc!lll-tis!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!jade!violet.berkeley.edu!dbcooper Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Message-ID: <3861@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Sender: usenet@jade.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: usa
jerry@oliveb.UUCP (Jerry F Aguirre) (06/06/87)
Distribution: In article <19249@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> fair@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (Erik E. Fair) writes: >This stuff is all going out with distribution "inet" (for Internet) >so that the general USENET doesn't see it (in theory). Except it is not! They either have a distribution of "usa" or even "world" or they have no distribution at all. I have no objection to getting the groups, the more the merrier. But, getting only the leakage is a real drip. Here are some samples: ==> /usr/spool/news/junk/6486 <== Path: oliveb!ames!ll-xn!mit-eddie!gatech!gitpyr!allen From: allen@gitpyr.gatech.EDU (P. Allen Jensen) Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript Subject: POSTSCRIPT Language definition Keywords: POSTSCRIPT,DOCUMENTATION Message-ID: <3677@gitpyr.gatech.EDU> Date: 2 Jun 87 14:20:28 GMT Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 5 ==> /usr/spool/news/junk/6487 <== Path: oliveb!ames!husc6!sri-unix!teknowledge-vaxc!mkhaw From: mkhaw@teknowledge-vaxc.ARPA (Michael Khaw) Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Lets start Keywords: Hello, lets get started Message-ID: <13312@teknowledge-vaxc.ARPA> Date: 2 Jun 87 23:53:09 GMT References: <1272@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> Reply-To: mkhaw@teknowledge-vaxc.UUCP (Michael Khaw) Distribution: usa ==> /usr/spool/news/junk/6489 <== Path: oliveb!ames!husc6!diamond.bbn.com!mlandau From: mlandau@Diamond.BBN.COM (Matt Landau) Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Lets start Summary: pressure of commercialism Message-ID: <6288@garnet.BBN.COM> Date: 3 Jun 87 03:36:48 GMT References: <1272@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> <13312@teknowledge-vaxc.ARPA> Reply-To: mlandau@Diamond.BBN.COM (Matt Landau) Distribution: usa ==> /usr/spool/news/junk/6490 <== Path: oliveb!ames!cit-vax!oberon!pollux.usc.edu!garg From: garg@pollux.usc.edu (Pankaj Garg) Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Lets start Summary: The "Softness" of Software systems Keywords: Software Maintenance Message-ID: <2508@pollux.usc.edu> Date: 3 Jun 87 07:23:56 GMT References: <1272@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> <13312@teknowledge-vaxc.ARPA> Reply-To: garg@pollux.usc.edu.UUCP (Pankaj Garg) Distribution: usa Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles Lines: 49 ==> /usr/spool/news/junk/6491 <== Path: oliveb!ames!think!husc6!mit-eddie!gatech!seismo!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!lord+ From: lord+@andrew.cmu.edu (Tom Lord) Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Lets start Message-ID: <oUkzRKy00UoNydw0HX@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: 3 Jun 87 10:15:50 GMT Organization: Carnegie Mellon University Lines: 53 Posted: Wed Jun 3 06:15:50 1987 In-Reply-To: <1272@super.upenn.edu.upenn.edu> ==> /usr/spool/news/junk/6492 <== Path: oliveb!ames!ll-xn!husc6!uwvax!oddjob!sphinx!fla7 From: fla7@sphinx.uchicago.edu (William Flachsbart) Newsgroups: comp.software-eng Subject: software design Summary: requirements, needs, obligations Keywords: software design Message-ID: <1891@sphinx.uchicago.edu> Date: 3 Jun 87 17:52:58 GMT Reply-To: fla7@sphinx.UUCP (William Flachsbart) Followup-To: comp.software-eng Organization: U Chicago Computation Center Lines: 57 ==> /usr/spool/news/junk/6493 <== Path: oliveb!ames!sdcsvax!ucbvax!ernie.Berkeley.EDU!seltzer From: seltzer@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Seltzer) Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan Subject: Traditional Music Message-ID: <19232@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: 3 Jun 87 15:30:51 GMT Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: seltzer@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Seltzer) Distribution: world Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 36 ==> /usr/spool/news/junk/6494 <== Path: oliveb!ames!husc6!uwvax!oddjob!sphinx!bur5 From: bur5@sphinx.uchicago.edu (catherine monica burke) Newsgroups: soc.culture.esperanto Subject: Esperanto Summary: Where? Keywords: Learn. Message-ID: <1894@sphinx.uchicago.edu> Date: 3 Jun 87 21:29:49 GMT Reply-To: bur5@sphinx.UUCP (catherine monica burke) Organization: Tarot Industries, "Protecting your future interests." Lines: 13 There wereced Th
barnett@vdsvax.UUCP (06/08/87)
We are getting the new groups from uunet. -- Bruce G. Barnett (barnett@ge-crd.ARPA) (barnett@steinmetz.UUCP) -- "The difference between a Buddha and an ordinary man is that one knows the difference and the other does not."
page@ulowell.UUCP (06/08/87)
jerry@oliveb.UUCP (Jerry F Aguirre) wrote:
>I have no objection to getting the groups, the more the merrier.
Many Usenet-only (read: non-Internet) admins that I've spoken to
about this agree with Jerry; more news is OK, and that maybe
a portion of the Internet "news" can be gatewayed to Usenet.
Many non-Internet sites get the stuff via e-mail right now anyway.
I suppose "portion" might mean "can be released to non-DOD/ARPA sites,"
although isn't that what the 'ddn' distribution is for?
..Bob
--
Bob Page, U of Lowell CS Dept. page@ulowell.{uucp,edu,csnet} news@rlvd.UUCP (06/09/87)
In article <6341@garnet.BBN.COM> mlandau@Diamond.BBN.COM (Matt Landau) writes: > ...are there some NNTP sites that are NOT yet running 2.11?) Yes. Us for example. Ian "Motorcycle Maaaaan" Gunn UK JANET : ian@uk.ac.rl.vd Rutherford Appleton Laboratory UUCP : ..!mcvax!ukc!rlvd!ian Chilton, Didcot, Oxon OX11 0QX ARPA : @ucl.cs.arpa:ian@vd.rl.ac.uk England. 'phone : (0235) 21900 ext: 5707