reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) (10/25/87)
Various people have flamed at me for periodic repostings of the arbitron
program sources. I have absolutely no intention of stopping this practice
just because a few malcontents don't like it.
Here is the list of sites that have posted an article to USENET in the last
30 days but have not filed an arbitron report. I note with satisfaction that
about 60% of the complainers come from sites on this list.
Please don't flood me with mail explaining why you don't file an arbitron
report if the reason falls into one of these categories:
1) You run an obscure version of Unix that for some reason bombs
out on the software, and you are unable to debug it yourself.
It works on every machine to which I have access myself, for debugging.
Usually people tell me it blows up in awk. What can I say? There
are a lot of very buggy versions of awk out there.
2) You run nntp/rrn. The design of the nntp protocols is deficient;
they don't permit any kind of readership determination. Until the
nntp protocols get revised to permit readership measurement, we
just aren't going to hear from your site. Sorry.
3) You are a VMS site or a TOPS-20 site or an IBM site or something like
that. Again, what can I say. mod.newprod, or whatever it is called
these days since the "reorganization", regularly carries announcements
of $5000 Unix boxes :-)
4) You are an AT&T site, and therefore have no site administrator and
no control over your news software and in fact you're busy chasing
down articles about dinettes for sale in New Jersey that got posted to
Australia and Japan.
Otherwise I'd like to hear from you, especially if the reason is that
you're a lazy person who has never quite gotten around to doing it.
The list:
a.gp.cs.cmu.edu
a.psy.cmu.edu
aa.ecn.purdue.edu
aardvark
ablnc
abvax
acad
academ
acc-sb-unix.arpa
acc.arpa
accva1
ace
acf3
acf4
acich
acoustics.nrl.mil
acrux.usc.edu
ada-uts
adm
admin
admin.okanagan.bcc.cdn
adobe
ads.arpa
aecom
aecom2
aeras
aero
aerospace.aero.org
agrigene
ahab
ai
ai.ai.mit.edu
ai.sri.com
ai.toronto.edu
aimt
aiva
akgua
albanycs
albert
alcoa.com
alice
alix
allegra
allegra.att.com
allien
almsa-1.arpa
aloha1
altera
altger
althea
altnet
altos86
aluxe
aluxp
aluxs
aluxz
amakoa
amc
amcad
amd
amelia
american
ames-io.arpa
ames-pioneer.arpa
ames.arpa
amethyst
amiga
amos
amsaa-seer.arpa
amsterdam
anad.arpa
anasazi
anathema
andrew
andrew.cmu.edu
andromeda
angel
anl-mcs.arpa
anucsd
anumb
aoa
apcisea
apctrc
apex
apg-3.arpa
apg-5.arpa
aplcen
aplpy.arpa
aplvax
apollo
applicon
applix
apr
aragorn.oz.au
ardec.arpa
ariel
arizona
ark
arnav
arnold
arrow
artecon
ashtate
asi
aspen
aspvax
astro.as.utexas.edu
astroatc
asuvax
atc.bendix.com
atelabs
atexrd
athena.mit.edu
athos
attvcr
atux01
auc
aucs
augusta
aurora
auscso
auspyr
auvax
axiom
b-tech
b.gp.cs.cmu.edu
babylon
bakerst
bambi
banana
banyan
bar
bartok
batcomputer
bath63
battelle.arpa
baudelaire
bbking
bbn
bby-bc
bc-cis
bcm
bco-multics.arpa
bcsaic
bcsfse
bcstec
beach
bearcat
bearcat.rutgers.edu
beatnix
bedrock
bellcore
bengus.cs.bgu.ac.il
bentley
berick
berry.rutgers.edu
beta
betelgeuse
bfly-vax.bbn.com
bgsuvax
bhjat
bigburd
bigburd.prc.unisys.com
bikini
bilanc
bingvaxu
bio73
biovax.rutgers.edu
blblbl
blft1
blia
bloom-beacon
bluto.scc.com
bnl
bnl.arpa
bnr-vpa
bnrmtv
boake2
bob
bobkat
bocar
bones
bonnie.uci.edu
booboo
boole
bosco.berkeley.edu
botter
boulder
bourbaki.mit.edu
bpa
braden.isi.edu
bradley
braegen
brage.qz.se
braggvax.arpa
brahms
brahms.berkeley.edu
brandx.rutgers.edu
briarpatch
bridge2
brillig.umd.edu
brl-adm
brl-smoke
brl-tbd
brl.arpa
brownvm
brspyr1.brs.com
brubeck.proteon.com
brueer
brunix
bu-cs.bu.edu
bu-it.bu.edu
bu.edu
bucc2
buckner-emh.arpa
buddy.berkeley.edu
bugatti
bunker
bunny
burdvax
burl
butterfly.rutgers.edu
buzz
bvax
c.isi.edu
cad.cs.cmu.edu
cadeos
cadeta
cadev2
cadev4
cadillac.siemens.com
cadnetix
cadovax
cadre
cae780
caelum
caen.engin.umich.edu
caesar
cairo
calgary.cdn
calmasd
calvin
camembert
canisius
capra
carlisle
cars.rutgers.edu
cartan
casemo
caseus
castor.usc.edu
catsim
cbcsta
cbdkc1
cbdkc1.att.com
cblpe
cblpf
cbmvax
cbosgd
cbrma
cbstr1
cc.utah.edu
cc2.bbn.com
cc4.bbn.com
cc5.bbn.com
cc6.bbn.com
ccd700
ccf.bbn.com
cci632
ccicpg
ccnysci
ccook
ccp.bbn.com
ccut
ccv.bbn.com
ccvax.ucd.hea.irl
cdp
celerity
celia
celtics
cerebus
cernvax
ceta
cetc
cevax.berkeley.edu
cfa
cfa250
cfcl
cfi
cgh
cgi.com
charon
chemo
cheshire.columbia.edu
cheviot
chewi.che.wisc.edu
chilli.berkeley.edu
chip.uchicago
chpc.brc.utexas.edu
cicgj.rpi.edu
cidam.rmit.oz.au
circle
cis.upenn.edu
ciss
cisunx
cit-adel
cit5
citcom
cithex.caltech.edu
cive.ri.cmu.edu
clary
clash.rutgers.edu
clem
clsib21
clunk
clutx.clarkson.edu
clyde
cms1.ucs.leeds.ac.uk
cmsa.berkeley.edu
cnt
cod
cod.nosc.mil
codas
cogen
cogent
col.bbn.com
columbia
columbia.edu
coma
comp.vuw.ac.nz
computer-lab.cambridge.ac.uk
comvme
con
concertina
condor
conexch
convex
convexs
cooper
cord
cornell
corona
corwin.ccs.northeastern.edu
cory.berkeley.edu
cosell.bbn.com
coyote
cpe
cpesw
cpocd2
cpsc53
cpsc6a
cpsc6b
crash
crcge1
credit
crg.llnl.gov
crlt
crta
crvax.sri.com
cs-gw.d.umn.edu
cs.bham.ac.uk
cs.brown.edu
cs.cmu.edu
cs.columbia.edu
cs.rochester.edu
cs.ucl.ac.uk
cs.ucla.edu
cs.umass.edu
cs.utah.edu
cs.vu.nl
cs.wisc.edu
cs1
csccat
csd4.milw.wisc.edu
cseg
csi
csib
csl
csl.sri.com
csli.stanford.edu
csri.toronto.edu
csuchico
csun
csv.rpi.edu
ctnews
cuae2
cucard
cui
cunixc
cunixc.columbia.edu
cunyvm
cup.portal.com
custom
cvaxa
cvaxa.sussex.ac.uk
cvbnet
cybvax0
cygnet
dadla
daemen
daimi
daimler
daisy
dana
dartmouth.edu
dartvax
datacube
dataio
datlog
dawn
dbase
dbngmd21
dca-ems.arpa
dcatla
dcc1
dcdwest
dcdwest1
dde
dean.berkeley.edu
decuac
decvax
decwrl.arpa
deep-thought.mit.edu
deepthot
degas.berkeley.edu
demoserver
deneb
deneb.ucdavis.edu
devo.rutgers.edu
devvax
devvax.tn.cornell.edu
dewey.soe.berkeley.edu
dgcad
diab
dicome
diku
dillon
dim
dino
dmk3b1
dmsmelb
dnlunx
doc
dockmaster.arpa
doghouse
dolphy
dolqci
doodah
doorway
dopey
dorothy.berkeley.edu
dorsai
doughnut
doughnut.cs.rochester.edu
dover
dragon
draken
drcvax.arpa
drea-xx.arpa
dreo-ewd.arpa
drilex
drivax
druhi
druks
drumn
drutx
dscatl
dse
dsiramd
dsl.cis.upenn.edu
dual
duke
dutesta
dutinfd
dutrun
dvm
e.isi.edu
ea.ecn.purdue.edu
eagle
eagle.cs.ulowell.edu
eagle_snax
ece-csc
ecehendrix
ecf
ecla.usc.edu
eco.ncsu.edu
ecrcvax
ecsvax
eddie.mit.edu
edge
edm
edn-unix.arpa
edn-vax.arpa
ednor
edsel
edvax
eecae
eeg
eg.ti.com
eglin-vax.arpa
ektools
elan
elecvax
eli
elmgate
elo.rutgers.edu
elxsi
emcard
emory
endor
enea
eneevax
engr.uky.edu
engvax
engvax.scg.hac.com
eniac.seas.upenn.edu
epimass
epimetheus
epistemi
epiwrl
eraserhead
erc3ba
erc3bb
eridani
eris
erix
eros
ers
escargot
esl
esosun
esquire
esunix
etlcom
etn-rad
euler.berkeley.edu
eurifb
europa
excell
exunido
f.gp.cs.cmu.edu
faccs
faline
faline.bellcore.com
falstaf
falstaff
fang
faron
farside
felix
fintuvm
fizban
fleetwood.cc.umich.edu
flmis06
flnexus
fluke
fmsrl7
focus
foobar
forbrk
force10
ford-wdl1.arpa
fordtruck
formtek
fornax
fred
fredonia
friday
frisky
frodo.columbia.edu
frog
fthood
ftp
g.bbn.com
g.gp.cs.cmu.edu
gaia
galaxy
galbp
galen
galileo.s1.gov
galley.ece.cmu.edu
gama
gamma
ganelon.usc.edu
gangue
garfield.columbia.edu
gargoyle
garnet.berkeley.edu
garp
garp.mit.edu
garth
gateway.mitre.org
gauss
gba.nyu.edu
gcc-milo
gcm
ge-crd.arpa
ge-dab
ge-rtp
geinah
gen1
genat
genesis
geneva.ai.mit.edu
geocub
geops
gethen
ghostwheel
gilsys
gladys
gmcrx1
gmr.com
gmu90x
gmwi1
goanna
godot
gold.bacs.indiana.edu
gollum
gordon
gorodish
gouldsd
gpu.utcs.toronto.edu
grand
granite
granjon
grasp.cis.upenn.edu
gravity
grc
grebyn.com
green
gremlin.nrtc.northrop.com
grinch
gryphon
gryphon.cts.com
gsb-how.stanford.edu
gsb-why.stanford.edu
gsg
gssc
gswd-vms.gould.com
gt-cmmsr
gt-eedsp
gt-elsa
gtuplab
gtx
gubba
gucis
gumby
gunter-adam.arpa
gvax
gvgspd
gwspc
gymble
gypsy
h.cc.purdue.edu
h.gp.cs.cmu.edu
haddock
hadron
hafro
hagar
hal
hal6000
hal9000
halibut
hamachi
hamlet
hanauma.stanford.edu
handel.colostate.edu
hao
harvard
harvard.harvard.edu
hawaii-emh.arpa
hawking.psc.edu
hc
hcap
hcfeams
hci
hci.hw.ac.uk
hcr
hector
hemaneh
hep.nrc.cdn
hern
hhb
hi-csc
hi-multics.arpa
his-phoenix-multics.arpa
ho7cad
ho95e
hobbes
holden.berkeley.edu
home
homxb
homxc
hoosier.utah.edu
hope
hoqax
hotlg
hotps
hou2d
hou2f
hou2g
houdi
houem
hound
hounx
houtz
houxa
houxj
houxl
houxs
houxv
howtek
hp-lsd
hp-pcd
hp-sdd
hpccc
hpcea
hpcehfe
hpcid
hpcldko
hpclisp
hpclla
hpcllcm
hpcllf
hpcllla
hpclmar
hpclsdh
hpcltjb
hpcndm
hpcnoe
hpcnof
hpcup4
hpcupt1
hpcvc0
hpcvcg
hpcvlo
hpcvra
hpda
hpesoc1
hpfcda
hpfcdc
hpfclh
hpfclm
hpfclp
hpfclr
hpfcls
hpfcmp
hpfcph
hpfcrj
hpfcse
hpihoah
hpindda
hpirs
hpisoa2
hpisod1
hpisod2
hpisof0
hpl-opus
hplabs
hplabs.hp.com
hplabsb
hplabsz
hplb.csnet
hplb29a
hpldola
hpldsla
hplsdla
hplsdli
hplsdlw
hplsdly
hplsla
hpqtdla
hpsadla
hpsal2
hpscda
hpscdu
hpscdw
hpscdy
hpsemc
hpsgpa
hpsmtc1
hpspdla
hpspkla
hpsrla
hpsrlc
hpuagai
hpubvwa
hpvcla
hpwalf
hrc63
hrcca
hrshcx
hsi
hslrswi
hstbme.mit.edu
huachuca-em.arpa
hubcap
hubcap.clemson.edu
hulkster
huma1
humu
husc6
hyper
i.cc.purdue.edu
iago.caltech.edu
iaoobelix
ibm.com
ibm.liverpool.ac.uk
icase.arpa
icdoc
ichinen
iclitc
iconsys
icot
icst-cmr.arpa
icst-ecf.arpa
idacrd
iddth
idec
ifi.uio.no
ih1ap
ihaxa
ihdev
ihlpa
ihlpe
ihlpf
ihlpg
ihlpl
ihlpm
ihlts
ihnet
ihnp3
ihnp4
ihop3
ihopa
ihu1h
ihu1m
ihuxb
ihuxv
ihuxy
ihuxz
ihwpt
im4u
ima.isc.com
imag
imryrr
imsvax
imtec
infbs
infko
ingersoll
inmet
inria
integral
intel-sc.csnet
intelca
intelisc
intrepid.ecn.purdue.edu
intvax
inuxb
inuxc
inuxd
inuxf
inuxh
inuxj
inuxm
investor
io
io.att.com
ipsa.arpa
ipso
ircam
iris
iris.ucdavis.edu
iros1
iros9
iscuva
ishmael
isi.edu
isieng
isis
isl1.ri.cmu.edu
islenet
ist
italy
itm
its63b
itsgw
iu.ai.sri.com
iucs
ius1.cs.cmu.edu
ius2.cs.cmu.edu
iuvax
ivory
izimbra
j.cc.purdue.edu
jack
jack-jr
jade
janus.berkeley.edu
jason
jasper.palladian.com
jc3b21
jensen
jhunix
jimi
joe
joey
jolt.columbia.edu
jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov
jpl-vlsi.arpa
jplopto
jplopto.jpl.nasa.gov
jplpro
jplpub1
jtids
julian
jumbo
june.cs.washington.edu
jupiter.ucsc.edu
jvnca.csc.org
k.cc.purdue.edu
k.gp.cs.cmu.edu
k1bc
ka2qhd
kaiser
kaos
katylied
kbsc
kd4nc
kddlab
keba
kent-state
kestrel
ki4pv
killer
kitty
kksys
kl.sri.com
klepto
klipper
koel
kolob
kontron
kosman
krafla
kraz.usc.edu
ksab.sunet.se
ksr
kulcs
kuling
kumu
kvue
l.cc.purdue.edu
labsms
labtam
laidbak
lamc
lanl.gov
lasso
latcs1.oz.au
laticorp
laura
lbl-csa2.arpa
lbl-csa5.arpa
lbl-csam.arpa
lbl-rtsg.arpa
lbl.arpa
lcuxa
lcuxb
lcuxlm
leadsv
leah
lear
leftlane
lemming
leo
lewey
lf-server-2.bbn.com
limbo
linc.cis.upenn.edu
linus
lipari.usc.edu
litp
littlei
liuida
live-oak.lcs.mit.edu
ll-vlsi.arpa
ll-xn
ll.arpa
llama
lll-circus.arpa
lll-crg.arpa
lll-crg.llnl.gov
lll-es-s05
lll-icdc.arpa
lll-lcc
lll-ncis
lll-risky
lockheed.com
log-hb
lpi
lsuc
ltuxa
luth
lzfmd
lzfme
lznh
m10ux
m11-116-9
m2c
m4-035-5
m5.sdsc.edu
m66-080-2
macom1
madhat
magic4
mahendo
mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov
makosky
malibu.ai.sri.com
man
mana
manta
manticore
marge.math.binghamton.edu
marlin.nosc.mil
marque
marys
masig1
masscomp
math.tau.ac.il
mathom.cisco.com
maximillion.cp.mcc.com
mazda
mbunix
mca
mcc-pp
mcdsun
mcf
mcmi
mcnc
mcnc.org
mcomp
mcvax
mdbs
medivax
megatek
men2a
mentat
meow
mercury.ceo.dg.com
mercutio
merlin.berkeley.edu
metasoft
methods
metro
metropolis
mfbbs
mghccc.harvard.edu
mhuhk
mhuxa
mhuxd
mhuxh
mhuxi
mhuxm
mhuxo
mhuxt
mhuxu
mibte
micas
micomvax
micropen
microsoft
midas
miduet
mikey.bbn.com
milano
mimir
mimsy.umd.edu
mindblow
minya
mipl3.jpl.nasa.gov
mipos3
mipos3.intel.com
mips
mira.usc.edu
mirror
misoft
mist
mit-amt
mit-atrp
mit-caf
mit-hermes
mit-multics.arpa
mit-prep
mit-richter
mit-vax
mitisft
mitre-bedford.arpa
mitre.arpa
mizar
mks
mmccsde
mmintl
mmm
mn-at1
moe
moncskermit
monet.berkeley.edu
monk.proteon.com
monkees.rutgers.edu
moogvax
moose
mordor
moriah
morocco
mothra
motsj1
motstk
mplvax
mrmarx
mrst
mrstve
mrsvax.mis.arizona.edu
mruxb
ms3
msudoc
mts.durham.ac.uk
mts.rpi.edu
mtsbb
mtunj.att.com
mtuxj
mtuxo
mtx5a
mtx5c
mtx5d
mtx5e
mucs
mulga
multivu
munnari
mupsy
murdu
murphy
muscat
musocs
mustard.berkeley.edu
n8emr
nadc.arpa
nadir
naggum.se
nancy
nasa-jsc.csnet
natmlab
naucse
nbc1
nbisos
ncc
ncelvax
ncifcrf
ncrcae
ncrcam
ncrcan
ncrday
ncrlnk
ncroem
ncrpcd
ncrwic
ncsc.arpa
ncspm
ncsugn
ndcheg
ndmath
nebula
necis
neoucom
neptune
nescorna
net1
netxcom
newton.physics.purdue.edu
ngp.utexas.edu
nic.nyser.net
nifty
nih-csl
nikhefh
nikhefk
nimifaa
nis
nitrex
nl.cs.cmu.edu
nlcvx
nlm-mcs
nmfecc.arpa
nmsu.csnet
noah.arc.cdn
noao.arizona.edu
nonvon
norvax
nosc
nosc-tecr.arpa
nosun
note.nsf.gov
notecnirp
nott-cs
nprdc.arpa
nrc-ut
nrcaer
nrcvax
nrl-aic.arpa
nrl-css.arpa
nrl-ssd.arpa
nrl3.arpa
nsc
nscpdc
nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov
nsta
nswc-g.arpa
nswc-oas.arpa
nswc-wo.arpa
nswitgould
nu3b2
nucleus
nucs
nud
nuesun
nugipsy
nuhub.acs.northeastern.edu
numm
nusc.arpa
nusdhub
nvpna1
nvuxg
nvuxj
nvuxk
nvuxl
nvuxr
nyfca1
nynex1
nysernic
oakhill
obelix
oberon
oberon.lcs.mit.edu
occrsh
occrsh.att.com
oce-rd1
ocean
octopus
odyssey
office-1.arpa
ogcvax
ogg
ohgua
ohguc
ohlone
oink
ojibwa
okeeffe.berkeley.edu
okstate
oliver
olsen
omen
ondine
onfcanim
onion
oodis01
opal.berkeley.edu
operations.dccs.upenn.edu
ora
orac
oracle
orange
oreo.berkeley.edu
oresoft
orion
orstcs
orstcs.cs.orst.edu
orville
orville.arpa
orville.nas.nasa.gov
oscvax
osiris.cso.uiuc.edu
osu-cis
osupyr
otc
othello
othello.usc.edu
otl
otto
ovation
oz.ai.mit.edu
ozdaltx
packard
paisano
palladium
palo-alto
pan
panda.com
pandora
papaya.bbn.com
parcvax
parhelion
park-street.bbn.com
pauling
paxvax.ee.cornell.edu
pbhyd
pbinfo
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zycadwebber@brandx.rutgers.edu (Webber) (10/26/87)
Considering the difficulty many people have reading a message of 100 lines in the same message, I assume most people didn't even bother reading the recent 2000+ line missive from decwrl. So, let me excerp the significant parts: In article <11960@decwrl.DEC.COM>, reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) writes: > ... > Here is the list of sites that have posted an article to USENET in the last > 30 days but have not filed an arbitron report. I note with satisfaction that > about 60% of the complainers come from sites on this list. > ... > 3) You are a VMS site or a TOPS-20 site or an IBM site or something like > that. Again, what can I say. mod.newprod, or whatever it is called > these days since the "reorganization", regularly carries announcements > of $5000 Unix boxes :-) > ... > The list: > ... > decvax > decwrl.arpa > ... I wonder if Sun would give Digital an educational discount? Anyway, it is certainly interesting that the sites of 40% of ``complainers'' continue to participate in this waste of cpu and bandwidth. Now what would be really interesting is to see a graph tracking the number of new arbitron reporting sites versus the old ones that tire of it versus the old ones who have long forgotten that they are even doing it. How much improvement in the stats results from each broadcast of source. Also, why not report the stats on the basis of the size of number of readers on the sites or industrial vs academic vs government vs independent vs personal. If we have to endure this eternal quest for numbers -- at least make them interesting numbers. Indeed, if there is bandwidth for the software, there should be bandwidth for the raw data. Then everyone can draw their own conclusions from the data. -------- BOB (webber@aramis.rutgers.edu ; rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!webber)
gk@kksys.UUCP (0000-Greg Kemnitz) (10/26/87)
In article <11960@decwrl.DEC.COM> reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) writes: >Various people have flamed at me for periodic repostings of the arbitron >program sources. I have absolutely no intention of stopping this practice >just because a few malcontents don't like it. How about stopping because it is needlessly wasteful of network resources? >Here is the list of sites that have posted an article to USENET in the last >30 days but have not filed an arbitron report. I note with satisfaction that >about 60% of the complainers come from sites on this list. O.K., the list would be appropriately posted in news.admin, along with a note regarding where one could obtain the latest arbitron sources. It really has no place in comp.sources.d, since the system admin is the one who should use it, not the average reader. 60% of the complainers are on the list? Hmmm... that means that 40% are from sites who -do- file reports. A rather significant percentage itself. >Please don't flood me with mail explaining why you don't file an arbitron >report if the reason falls into one of these categories: > > 1) You run an obscure version of Unix that for some reason bombs > out on the software, and you are unable to debug it yourself. Hmmm... Implying the software is perfect? Couldn't it be your software bombs out on some unix-es? > It works on every machine to which I have access myself, for debugging. These are? I might be more inclined to install it if I had some reasonable expectation it would work. Perhaps you have tested under the Unix I run... > Usually people tell me it blows up in awk. What can I say? There > are a lot of very buggy versions of awk out there. Hmmm... this would suggest more work might be needed in how it uses awk. I would think you would -want- reports concerning environments it does not work in. Or is this a good way to assure your code stays bug-free? (If one doesn't hear about a problem, it must not be there....) > 2) You run nntp/rrn. The design of the nntp protocols is deficient; > they don't permit any kind of readership determination. Until the > nntp protocols get revised to permit readership measurement, we > just aren't going to hear from your site. Sorry. What percentage of the non-responding sites fall into this category? > 3) You are a VMS site or a TOPS-20 site or an IBM site or something like > that. Again, what can I say. mod.newprod, or whatever it is called > these days since the "reorganization", regularly carries announcements > of $5000 Unix boxes :-) This is a good idea.... if a site cannot run arbitron, they should get a new system. After all, what is $5000 per site ...... :-) > 4) You are an AT&T site, and therefore have no site administrator and > no control over your news software and in fact you're busy chasing > down articles about dinettes for sale in New Jersey that got posted to > Australia and Japan. I'll concede this point... :-) >Otherwise I'd like to hear from you, especially if the reason is that >you're a lazy person who has never quite gotten around to doing it. What about those of us who do not like to install software when we know another version will be posted in a few weeks? Or those of us who have so little volume as to be statistically insignificant? Or how about sites who expire so quickly that the data is not valid? Or the folks who originally intended to set up arbitron, but who now feel like they are being pushed into doing so, rather than being allowed to do so voluntarily. Or those who simply have more important things to do? BTW, I think the arbitron reports are useful... And I appreciate the many good things you have done for the net. Perhaps you could take a slightly different approach to getting a better response on this effort. Perhaps you could log responses from folks who do not provide arbitron data, and drop sites from your list who -cannot- forward arbitron data, or whose data would be statistically invalid. You could then appeal to the more focused list of non-responding sites, and hopefully knock a few more off when they start posting. As for the rest, a message to the news administrators mailbox might gain a few more respondents. The remainder will have to stay on the list of 'silent' news readers. With all this data, you would be able to post some additional network statistics, and perhaps could start catching 'new' news users and sending their sites requests to post arbitron stats. What you are doing now is akin to 'bulk mailing', which more often than not gets pitched in the trash. Perhaps first class mail to a more targeted audience would get a better response. As to why our site does not post arbitron data, we originally intended to, but now understand that the data would be invalid due to the way we expire news (two day expire for many well-read groups). Even were this not the case, I would likely refuse simply in protest of the way you are attempting to coerce people into posting the info. Of course, I am posting this after a long string of days with less than three hours of sleep a night. Perhaps I would feel differently when I was awake. Then again, perhaps not. Let's move this discussion out of comp.sources.d and solely into news.admin where it is more appropriate. -- Greg Kemnitz | amdahl \ K and K Systems | ihnp4 !meccts!kksys!gk P.O. Box 41804 | rutgers/ Plymouth, MN 55441-0804 | AT&T and clones: (612)475-1527
ecl@mtgzy.UUCP (Evelyn C. Leeper) (10/26/87)
In article <11960@decwrl.DEC.COM>, reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) writes: > Here is the list of sites that have posted an article to USENET in the last > 30 days but have not filed an arbitron report. I note with satisfaction that > about 60% of the complainers come from sites on this list. > 4) You are an AT&T site, and therefore have no site administrator and > no control over your news software and in fact you're busy chasing > down articles about dinettes for sale in New Jersey that got posted to > Australia and Japan. > mtsbb, mtunj.att.com, mtuxj, mtuxo, mtx5a, mtx5c, mtx5d, mtx5e Well, I am the site administrator for at least some of these and the reason I haven't set up arbitron yet is that there are only 168 hours in a week. What with the recent breakages in the netnews software (patch #10 broke sendbatch; patch #11 broke expire), I'm spending more time than I should on netnews anyway. I think the arbitron statistics are interesting and perhaps even useful, but not to the extent that I must drop everything else to be sure every site I administer is running arbitron. The whole idea is that a sample should be enough. Evelyn C. Leeper (201) 957-2070 UUCP: ihnp4!mtgzy!ecl ARPA: mtgzy!ecl@rutgers.rutgers.edu
snoopy@doghouse.gwd.tek.com (Snoopy) (10/28/87)
In article <11960@decwrl.DEC.COM> reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) writes: >Various people have flamed at me for periodic repostings of the arbitron >program sources. I have absolutely no intention of stopping this practice >just because a few malcontents don't like it. What side of the bed did *you* get up on this morning? Until I read this I always thought of you as a very reasonable person. [Okay, so that doesn't take much relative to the rest of usenet. :-) ] > 2) You run nntp/rrn. The design of the nntp protocols is deficient; > they don't permit any kind of readership determination. Until the > nntp protocols get revised to permit readership measurement, we > just aren't going to hear from your site. Sorry. Deficient? Just because they don't have hooks for *your* program? > 3) You are a VMS site or a TOPS-20 site or an IBM site or something like > that. Again, what can I say. mod.newprod, or whatever it is called > these days since the "reorganization", regularly carries announcements > of $5000 Unix boxes :-) Not everyone has an extra $5000 to spend on new hardware so that they can participate in the arbitron. Give me a break! > 4) You are an AT&T site, and therefore have no site administrator and > no control over your news software and in fact you're busy chasing > down articles about dinettes for sale in New Jersey that got posted to > Australia and Japan. You mean they actually chase those down? :-) >Otherwise I'd like to hear from you, especially if the reason is that >you're a lazy person who has never quite gotten around to doing it. Excuse me? Not having time to set up arbitron, which I see as a very low priority project at best, does not imply that someone is lazy. I think you owe an apology to a lot of overworked SAs out there. Until today, my reason was: (a) I'm running nntp, (b) I don't have time, (c) 1 or 2 users missing out of n-thousand isn't going to hurt, (d) all of the above. Starting now, my reason is (a) I'm not going to until Brian stops wasting all that net bandwidth (and money, and people's time hitting 'n', and disk space, and...) reposting the sources so often. And then I'll think about it. Another point, for systems with a single, or very few readers: Do you really want to send out the information on what newsgroups you read? There's a privacy issue here. The arbitron stats are interesting and useful. Attempting to force every machine on the net to gather and send data for it isn't going to go over too well. I vote for reposting the sources no more than once a year. Snoopy tektronix!doghouse.gwd!snoopy snoopy@doghouse.gwd.tek.com Arbitron sources? We don't need no stinking arbitron sources!
avolio@decuac.UUCP (10/28/87)
There is an easy solution to "Gee, I can't remember to run arbitron..." Put an entry in your crontab file to run it monthly. You edit the crontab file once, and forget about it. (Since the site I am on was on this list this is the solution I came up with. Just make sure you get those fields in crontab correct... You don't want arbitron running every Monday, or every day at 1am, or at 1 minute after very hour.... :-) ) Fred
emv@pepe.cc.umich.edu (Ed Vielmetti) (10/29/87)
In article <11960@decwrl.DEC.COM>, reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) writes: > ... > The list: > ... > ub.cc.umich.edu > ... > um.cc.umich.edu > ... I don't quite know how you got these sites on your list, but I assure you that neither one of them runs Usenet news. There's no way that they could have appeared on the list unless something was wrong in the program that generated the list. Some people at um and ub do post to internet groups (like comp.sys.apple) which are gatewayed through - perhaps that's how they showed up. Suggest that you check again & filter out these sort of sites. Edward Vielmetti, U-Michigan Workstation Group, Ann Arbor MI 48109 emv@umix.cc.umich.edu ; {uunet,rutgers}!umix!emv ; (313) 747-3744 Edward Vielmetti, U-Michigan Workstation Group, Ann Arbor MI 48109 emv@umix.cc.umich.edu ; {uunet,rutgers}!umix!emv ; (313) 747-3744 You Need a Thneed!
jane@tolerant.UUCP (Jane Medefesser) (10/29/87)
In article <1769@decuac.DEC.COM>, avolio@decuac.dec.com (Frederick M. Avolio) writes: > There is an easy solution to "Gee, I can't remember to run > arbitron..." Put an entry in your crontab file to run it monthly. > You edit the crontab file once, and forget about it. Oh yea? Well, get this: I *HAVE* such a crontab emtry. The program runs every month on the 18th. It mails one copy to me and one to Brian. Yet - Brian has never SEEN my report (I always get MY copy...) And my system is on Brian's sh*t list... (oh, well - I tried...) > > Just make sure you get those fields in crontab correct... > You don't want arbitron running every Monday, or every day at 1am, or > at 1 minute after very hour.... :-) ) Like I said, I always get *MY* copy. Don't know what happens to Brian's - it never gets bounced back HERE............... I give up - I will ALWAYS be on the sh*t list. So what. (Hey - I'm not a malcontent - I'm just frustrated!) ============================================ Jane Medefesser uucp: {pyramid,mordor,oliveb,sci}!tolerant!jane Tolerant Systems tele: +1 408 433 5588 81 E. Daggett Dr. San Jose, Ca 95134 -- * Not me, baby - I'm too precious * <-- ( it's only rock & roll..) Jane Medefesser uucp: {pyramid,mordor,oliveb,sci}!tolerant!jane Tolerant Systems tele: +1 408 433 5588
rcj@moss.ATT.COM (10/30/87)
In article <366@tardis.cc.umich.edu> emv@pepe.cc.umich.edu (Ed Vielmetti) writes: }I don't quite know how you got these sites on your list, but I assure you }that neither one of them runs Usenet news. There's no way that they }could have appeared on the list unless something was wrong in the program }that generated the list. Some people at um and ub do post to internet }groups (like comp.sys.apple) which are gatewayed through - perhaps that's }how they showed up. } }Suggest that you check again & filter out these sort of sites. No, no! Didn't you read Brian's original message? It's not the fault of his software that he picked sites that don't run Usenet software; it's *your* fault for not taking one of those many $5000 chunks of money you have lying around all over the place and buying a *real* machine (i.e., Unix). How dare you allow your Bitnet users to post from a non-netnews-software sight and thereby screw up the Holy Arbitron Statistics! Heretic! ;-) Translation: Lighten up a little, Brian. The MAD Programmer -- 201-386-6409 (Cornet 232) ^^^^ new extension alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd allegra ]!moss!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua watmath ]!clyde!rcj
kyle@xanth.UUCP (Kyle Jones) (10/31/87)
In article <425@kksys.UUCP>, gk@kksys.UUCP (0000-Greg Kemnitz) writes: > In article <11960@decwrl.DEC.COM> reid@decwrl.dec.com (Brian Reid) writes: > >Various people have flamed at me for periodic repostings of the arbitron > >program sources. I have absolutely no intention of stopping this practice > >just because a few malcontents don't like it. > > How about stopping because it is needlessly wasteful of network > resources? > ... > What you are doing now is akin to 'bulk mailing', which more often > than not gets pitched in the trash. Perhaps first class mail to a > more targeted audience would get a better response. My sentiments exactly. I still haven't heard a good reason for posting the arbitron program every month. Why should this program, and this program alone, be reposted again and again, month after month? kyle jones <kyle@odu.edu> old dominion university, norfolk, va usa
edward@ukecc.UUCP (11/01/87)
In article <9307@tekecs.TEK.COM> snoopy@doghouse.gwd.tek.com (Snoopy) writes: > >Another point, for systems with a single, or very few readers: Do you >really want to send out the information on what newsgroups you read? >There's a privacy issue here. From the viewpoint of a user, this is easy to work around. If you don't want arbitron snooping in on you, just change the name of your .newsrc and set your NEWSRC environment variable. Abitron is hardcoded for .newsrc. Me? Yes, I run arbitron. Why? Because USENET is a team effort. We've all got to cooperate if this thing is going to succeed. Too many efforts have failed because of the what's-in-it-for-me attitude (No, I don't have examples). -- Edward C. Bennett DOMAIN: edward@engr.uky.edu UUCP: cbosgd!ukma!ukecc!edward "Goodnight M.A." BITNET: edward%ukecc.uucp@ukma "He's become a growling, snarling white-hot mass of canine terror"
nyssa@terminus.UUCP (The Prime Minister) (11/02/87)
In article <9307@tekecs.TEK.COM> snoopy@doghouse.gwd.tek.com (Snoopy) writes: >Excuse me? Not having time to set up arbitron, which I see as a very >low priority project at best, does not imply that someone is lazy. >I think you owe an apology to a lot of overworked SAs out there. Well... arbitron source was distributed with news 2.11. When I installed 2.11, I ran arbitron. Funny thing was, the only mods I had to make were to insure a correct mail path. It took, maybe, 15 seconds to do. Then I popped the sucker into cron, another 30 seconds worth of work. Gee, that didn't seem like too much... >Another point, for systems with a single, or very few readers: Do you >really want to send out the information on what newsgroups you read? >There's a privacy issue here. I am sys-admin for a site which currently has three readers. I suspect that qualifies as "very few". I see no need to be worried about letting people know which groups I do and don't read, that may be obvious just from where I post. In fact, with the gradual increase of PC's on the net, collecting statistics from this set of users is even more valuable. This machine does not carry every newsgroup, which affects propogation data. Of course, the real question being raised is the necessity of posting arbitron source regularly, not the validity of the experiment. I do have some observations on that. Over the summer, I formed (with the help of several other people) an archive of information related to Doctor Who which was posted regularly to rec.arts.drwho. This information was posted monthly, with a month long expire period. It included information on frequently asked questions, a companion list, and other goodies. Included among these goodies was a troff program guide which was written by me last year, and modified to be more universal by Mike Brown (brown@nicmad). (We have also been maintaining the guide and modifying it as more information is received.) The latest version of the guide is 63694 characters in length, not including news headers. With other files, the archive postings were pushing 150K, far too much to do on a monthly basis, so the procedure was stopped. Now, there is a set of monthly postings for rec.arts.drwho. The three messages are: an explanation of the monthly postings and archive system, the set of frequently asked questions, and a list of conventions. Other information is stored in a set of easily retrievable files on terminus. There is a comment to that effect in the monthly postings. Moral of the story: Perhaps the arbitron source should be similarly archived, and made available by request. A pointer to the source would be mentioned in the explanatory posting. If there should be a major change (Would C news require any changes?), then it should be reposted. To those people who say things like, "We think the stuff is valuable, but we won't participate because Brian wastes net resources", don't you realise that that is a childish attitude? What do you, or anyone else gain? You entrench your position, Brian (may) entrench his, and nothing is gained. The flames generated over these arbitron source postings and already probably larger in volume than a year's worth of the postings.
mangler@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Don Speck) (11/09/87)
Being the 'conscientious bastard' (as my boss once called me) that I am,
I grep'd Brian's list for Caltech sites. Several showed up, but none
of them is on Usenet. They're on ARPAnet mailing lists. Most of them
have never even heard of Usenet.
Harangues to run arbitron would do well to limit themselves to sites
listing a non-empty #U line in the uucp map, or the object of one of
those lines. Even that is not foolproof, but it's a good start.
---
It is unfortunately very true that the arbitron sample is strongly
biased toward large machines. Even within a large site, only the
machines with many readers run arbitron. There are lots of workstations
here with one or two readers, for which I can't bring myself to pester
their SA's to install arbitron.
With nntp, I know exactly how many articles get read (45000 per week),
the breakdown per machine, per day, the amount of time spent, etc.
The information is all in the server's syslog, in nauseating detail,
you just have to write an awk script to parse it. So don't complain
about nntp, write an arbitron for it! It may be the most complete
statistics you'll get.
---
Readership statistics are, or should be, important to any SA that
faces beancounters. When our beancounters finally come around to
ask why this user "news" is chewing up $500 of CPU per month and
then demand "Who uses it?", I'm going to *need* usage numbers to
throw at them, preferably in an imposingly thick monolithic report,
to show that it gets read by ~150 people and that equivalent mailing
list traffic would completely swamp us. So the better arbitron
statistics I can get, the more likely Usenet is to survive review.
Don Speck speck@vlsi.caltech.edu {amdahl,scgvaxd}!cit-vax!speck