allen@sulaco.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) (09/19/88)
To the members of Usenet: Greetings. There has emerged, what I feel to be a big problem. For a couple of weeks, the net has been plagued with postings from several "entities" at the Portal System (tm) in California. The postings are made from ambiguous accounts such as "Spartan", "Hijacker", "Argent", "Ankh" etc, ad nauseum. It is my opinion that the Site Administrator's decision to let subscribers use these "handles" (and apparently change them at will) encourages some of them to post irresponsibly, and perhaps not use the best of judgement when doing it. I offer as a "for instance" the fairly recent incident of "jj@cup.portal.com" who posted a plea for money across the entire net, cross-posting to most of the newsgroups. This problem might be solved if the management at the Portal System would simply replace the "XPortal-User-Id:" line with the user's real name. This situation would perhaps force a poster to use more discretion prior to posting, knowing that his or her *real* name would be attached to the posting. If the Site Administrators at the Portal System are still uncertain as to whether or not they should implement such a thing, perhaps those of us who feel this way could help them out by assembling as complete a portfolio of these postings as possible. Then, mail them to 'postmaster@cup.portal.com' along with your comments as to why you feel the postings are inappropriate. This will aid their staff in resolving the problem by presenting them with *complete* first-hand evidence. I thank you, and Usenet thanks you... -- Allen Gwinn ...sulaco!allen Disclaimer: The facts stated are my own. "At the source of every error blamed on a computer you will find at least two errors...including the error of blaming it on the computer."
jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (John F. Haugh II) (09/19/88)
to all you USENETTER's - greetings. a very large problem has emerged on the net. for several weeks, the net has been beseiged with postings from many users at the portal system in california. these postings are made from pseudo- accounts with names such as "spartan", "hijacker", "publisher", and so on without bound. it is my considered opinion that the site administrator's decision to allow users to use these "c.b. handles" (and to apparently change them on a moments notice) encourages them to post irresponsibly. as an example, let us not forget the ta-do with jj@cup.portal.com [ not to be confused with the real jj@alice ] who posted a plea for money across most of the newsgroups on the net. this problem might be solved if the management at portal replaced the portal-id field with the user's real name. the users might then consider acting with more discretion prior to posting, knowing that their name would be attached for all to see. if the administrators at portal remain uncertain as to the need for this action, perhaps we could help them out by compiling a compendium of articles showing the content of the articles emanating from that system. perhaps neighboring sites could be persuaded to disassociate themselves with portal until such time as portal ceases to be a negative factor in the usenet community. to aid other site administrators in removing portal system postings, i have created a shell script which will cancel all postings coming from that system. I thank you, and Usenet thanks you... Sincerly, John F. Haugh II
wbt@cbnews.ATT.COM (William B. Thacker) (09/19/88)
To the Powers that Be on Usenet; Recently, there has occurred on the net what I feel to be the beginnings of a big problem. For several weeks, postings from several individuals at the Portal System have been plaguing the net. The posters use "anonymous" logins such as "Hijacker", "Spartan", "Ankh" etc. It is my opinion that the Portal Administrator's decision to let subscribers use these "handles" has encouraged some of them to post irresponsibly, I offer as a "for instance" the fairly recent incident of "jj@cup.portal.com" who posted a plea for money across the entire net, cross-posting to most of the newsgroups. Many of the posters from Portal do not seem to realize the tremendous expense this sort of "prank" causes. This problem might be solved if the management at the Portal System would simply force users to use their real names. This would perhaps force these posters to use more discretion. It is my opinion that the Portal System itself is not really at fault; this problem could not easily have been forseen by them. I do hope, however, that they take some action to correct what could be a tremendous problem for the net. If, however, the Portal administrators are reluctant to do so, perhaps those of us who feel strongly about the issue could help them out by assembling as complete a portfolio of these postings as possible, then mailing them to 'root@cup.portal.com' along with comments as to why we feel the postings are inappropriate. This will, no doubt, aid their staff in resolving the problem by presenting them with a body of first-hand data. My thanks, and wishes that we can resolve this issue quickly to everyone's satisfaction. ------------------------------ valuable coupon ------------------------------- Bill Thacker cbosgd!cbema!wbt "C" combines the power of assembly language with the flexibility of assembly language. Disclaimer: Farg 'em if they can't take a joke ! ------------------------------- clip and save --------------------------------
rissa@chinet.UUCP (Patricia O Tuama) (09/19/88)
To the members of Usenet: Greetings. A large problem has emerged in the past couple of weeks: the net has been plagued with postings from several "entities" at the Portal System (tm) in California. The postings are made from ambiguous accounts such as "Spartan", "Ronie", "Argent", "Ankh" etc. It is my opinion that the Site Administrator's decision to let subscribers use these "handles" (and apparently change them at will) encourages some of them to post irresponsibly. I offer as an example the recent incident of "jj@cup.portal.com" who posted a plea for money across the entire net, cross-posting to numerous newsgroups. This problem might be solved if the management at the Portal System would replace the "XPortal-User-Id:" line with the user's real name. This change would perhaps force a poster to use more discretion prior to posting, knowing that his or her *real* name would be attached to the posting. If the Site Administrators at the Portal System are still uncertain as to whether or not they should implement such action, perhaps those of us who feel this way could help them out by assembling as complete a portfolio of these postings as possible. Then, mail them to postmaster@cup.portal.com along with your comments as to why you feel the postings are inappropriate. This will aid their staff in resolving the problem by presenting them with *complete* first-hand evidence. Netters here in Chicago are entitled to send mutiple copies in the fine old tradition of the Daley Machine. I thank you, Usenet thanks you and Nikola Tesla thanks you. Secret Agent Elsie Dinsmore
oleg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Oleg Kiselev) (09/19/88)
To the members of Usenet:
Hello. There has emerged, what we feel to be a huge problem. For
a while now, the net has been plagued with postings from several
"people" at the Portal System (tm) in California. The postings are
made from ambiguous accounts such as "Spartan", "Hijacker", "Argent",
"ANKH" etc, ad nauseum. It is our opinion that the Site Administrator's
decision to let subscribers use these "handles" (and apparently change
them at will) encourages some of them to post irresponsibly, and perhaps
not use the best of judgement when doing it. I offer as a "for instance"
the fairly recent incident of "jj@cup.portal.com" who posted a plea for
money across the entire net, cross-posting to most of the newsgroups.
This problem might be solved if the management at the Portal System would
simply replace or augment the "XPortal-User-Id:" line with the (l)user's
real name. This situation would perhaps force a poster to use more
discretion prior to posting, knowing that his or her *real* name would
be attached to the posting.
If the Site Administrators at the Portal System are still uncertain as
to whether or not they should implement such a thing, perhaps those of
us who feel this way could help them out by assembling as complete a
portfolio of these postings as possible. Then, mail them to
'postmaster@cup.portal.com' along with your comments as to why you feel
the postings are inappropriate. This will aid their staff in resolving
the problem by presenting them with *complete* first-hand evidence.
I thank you, and Usenet thanks you. It's your net. Do it now.
--
Oleg Kiselev "No regrets, no apologies" -- Ronald Reagan
(213)337-5230 ARPA: lcc.oleg@seas.ucla.edu, oleg@gryphon.cts.com
UUCP:...!ucla-cs!lcc!oleg
Copyright 1988 by Oleg Kiselev. All rights reserved.
Quoting is allowed only if attributed.jzitt@dasys1.UUCP (Joe Zitt) (09/19/88)
Was it >really< necessary that the complaint about Portal be posted four
times to net.admin?!
--
{sun!hoptoad,cmcl2!phri}!dasys1!jzitt
Joe Zitt Big Electric Cat Public Access Unix
also: uunet!wwd!joe (WorldWide Data)
The worldlines of the needle and the digit intersect -- Paul Pedersen, 1988dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (09/19/88)
Could someone fill me in on what some of these "Portal" folks have done?
Other than the "JJ/Rob Noha" episode, I've either been oblivious to their
malfeasance given the general state of USENET, or I'm not reading the
right newsgroups. In any event, this "letter campaign" seems more than
a little bit disingenuous. Gad, the alt. groups are being polluted by
being lowered to the level of 15 year olds. Geez, what's a year between
friends?
--
Steve Dyer
dyer@harvard.harvard.edu
dyer@spdcc.COM aka {harvard,husc6,linus,ima,bbn,m2c,mipseast}!spdcc!dyerbrad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (09/20/88)
And whoever originated this much duplicated message has shown they are about as valuable to the net as Portal. The real message for Portal is this -- allow your site to get the bad reputation that it is getting, so that people start putting it in their kill files, and you are doing your own well behaved customers harm. This will eventually come home to roost. The solution is fairly easy. For each new user, spool all postings into a special directory where a Portal staff memeber will examine them, and forward them on or reject them. Once a user has got the hang of things, the staff member can turn off their new user flag. This should be the case at all sites of any size, but Portal would be an excellent start. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
clb) (09/20/88)
In article <265@sulaco.UUCP>, allen@sulaco.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) writes: > To the members of Usenet: This is an interesting concept: Usenet members! You make it sound so organized. > > Greetings. There has emerged, what I feel to be a big problem. For > a couple of weeks, the net has been plagued with postings from several > "entities" at the Portal System (tm) in California. The postings are The net has a perfectly good mechanism for dealing with postings that cause aggravation; the reader merely doesn't read whatever they find offensive. If it's too extreme, unsubscribe. > > I thank you, and Usenet thanks you... > > -- > Allen Gwinn ...sulaco!allen Disclaimer: The facts stated are my own. If you seriously want to do something constructive to reduce the trash posting on the net, try setting a good example. However, if posters are going to assail others with flames, insults, lies, etc., etc., it really makes no difference whether they use a handle or their name. In addition to setting a good example, another effective means of dealing with juvenile behavior is to simply ignore it. Without acknoledgement, these children get bored and look for something else to do. Your posting merely fans their flames by admitting that they are being heard, so chill out. -- CLBrunow - KA5SOF Loci Products, POB 833846-131, Richardson, Texas 75083 clb@loci.uucp, loci@killer.uucp, loci@csccat.uucp
wcf@psuhcx.psu.edu (Bill Fenner) (09/20/88)
I'm sorry, form letters don't impress me. I agree with your sentiments,
but you *could* just say "I agree!" instead of posting the (basically) same
article with minor changes multiple times.
Bill
--
Bitnet: wcf@psuhcx.bitnet Bill Fenner | "Ain't got no cash,
Internet: wcf@hcx.psu.edu | Ain't got no style
UUCP: {gatech,rutgers}!psuvax1!psuhcx!wcf | Ain't got no girls
Fido: Sysop at 263/42 (814/238 9633) \hogbbs!wcf| To make me smile"kmw@ardent.UUCP (Ken Wallich) (09/20/88)
In article <1891@spdcc.COM> dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes: >Could someone fill me in on what some of these "Portal" folks have done? >Other than the "JJ/Rob Noha" episode, I've either been oblivious to their >malfeasance given the general state of USENET, or I'm not reading the >right newsgroups. In any event, this "letter campaign" seems more than >a little bit disingenuous. [...] >-- >Steve Dyer I must agree. Allen Gwinn, William B. Thacker, Patricia O Tuama, Oleg Kiselev, John F. Haugh II and others write: A form letter (with some individual quips) telling us of grave problems at Portal. A form letter of protest posted to the net? Perhaps next we can post chain letters. Considering the reputation of some of the folks who appear to have authored this stuff, one wonders whether it is just a big forgery. I find it difficult to believe (although not impossible) that all of these folks suddenly lost the capacity for independent thought. I could understand individually crafted letters of concern, but not something like this. Like Steve I've also noticed no abnormally heavy abuses from Portal lately, just seems like the same noise level they usually maintain (although I must admit that '/portal/h:j' is in more than one of my local killfiles). If you have become disgusted with the level of noise on the net (like me), this doesn't seem like the most intellegent way of solving it. Have we decided that xeroxed (tm) group intimidation works better than individual discussion? Actually, considering how many of the discussions have digressed lately. Humm.... To the members of Usenet: Nawww. -- Ken Wallich Ardent Computer Corp uunet!ardent!kmw Sunnyvale, California, USA "Slimey? Mud hole? My HOME this is!"
timelord@eos.UUCP (G. Murdock Helms) (09/20/88)
In several newsgroups, copies of the following 'form posting' have appeared from various individuals: >To the members of Usenet: > >Hello. There has emerged, what we feel to be a huge problem. For >a while now, the net has been plagued with postings from several >"people" at the Portal System (tm) in California. The postings are >made from ambiguous accounts such as "Spartan", "Hijacker", "Argent", >"ANKH" etc, ad nauseum. It is our opinion that the Site Administrator's >decision to let subscribers use these "handles" (and apparently change >them at will) encourages some of them to post irresponsibly, and perhaps >not use the best of judgement when doing it. [ text deleted ] Is this truly a 'huge problem'? The various facilities for reading news all include the 'kill file' option to each user, i.e.: the ability to filter out specific postings. If a user finds postings from Portal to be such a problem, then that user can implement his kill file to eliminate them. For those who do not use kill files (such as myself), it is a relatively simple matter to skip postings that do not appeal to the reader. There has recently been a tendency towards suppression on the net that is chilling in its implications. I am referring specifically to the removal of at least one person's net access, perhaps even his account, due to several complaints about his postings. The unpleasant aspect of this is that the person in question was not posting overtly offensive material to the net. Yes, he produced a lot of articles, and yes, he could be somewhat irritating, but there are other individuals in many groups who can be accused of the same faults. The point is: someone was able to convince the sysadmin of that machine to remove a user who had not done anything explicitly 'wrong'. And this could happen to you....or me. There have been discussions on removing specific people from the net, cutting people's newsfeed (or a machine's newsfeed), and now various discussions on what to do about Portal. Is this suppression neccessary? Why is it that so many people with net access cannot act responsibly and solve their differences with people/machines/newsgroups without first becoming rude and insulting, and then demanding suppression of the 'offending' party? The rule in social interaction that applies here is: If you have a problem with an account, machine, or newsgroup, then it is YOUR problem, not the entire world's, and therefore you alone must solve it. That may mean the creation of a kill file, or the exercising of patience, but it still remains *your* problem. It has been suggested by various parties that some of the 'irresponsible' posters from Portal are youngsters of various ages. From my experience working with children of various ages, I can assure you that the approach that has been taken thus far towards 'controlling' these children is entirely incorrect. People of any age younger than yourself have a desire to be treated as an equal. In working with them, greater progress is made with helpful comments and suggestions than with a slow roast over spiteful and degrading flames. A simple, *polite* mail message to an 'offender' suggesting how to access the manual pages on news readers, and how to edit a posting for inclusion in a followup should suffice to fix the problem. As you may note, my login is not my real name. My name listing is not my real name either. The fact that I possess the ability to change my 'name' at whim has not in any manner influenced me to post irresponsibly. If there are any questions about the events I have mentioned or other comments that you wish to discuss with me, I can be contacted via email at timelord@eos.arc.nasa.gov, and would be interested in exchanging mail with you. -Murdock timelord@eos.arc.nasa.gov
Wasser@cup.portal.com (09/20/88)
The two articles recently posted to news.admin by Gwinn and Thacker were totally uncalled for. Gentlemen, alt.flame is the proper group for that sort of drivel. Please remember that in the future. Also please remember that the "Site Administator" at Portal promptly cancelled JJ's account as soon as he discovered what JJ had done. JJ went on to even greater fame from another site. Your campaign is not without merit: humor. However, news.admin was not created for humor. Cheers, John Thomason Wasser@cup.portal.com
allen@sulaco.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) (09/20/88)
In article <5572@killer.DALLAS.TX.US>, loci@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (loci!clb) writes: > In article <265@sulaco.UUCP>, allen@sulaco.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) writes: > > To the members of Usenet: > This is an interesting concept: Usenet members! You make it > sound so organized. I'm sorry, Chucky... I almost forgot about you. Administrators please pardon me while I take care of this... > > Greetings. There has emerged, what I feel to be a big problem. For > > a couple of weeks, the net has been plagued with postings from several > > "entities" at the Portal System (tm) in California. The postings are > The net has a perfectly good mechanism for dealing with postings > that cause aggravation; the reader merely doesn't read whatever > they find offensive. If it's too extreme, unsubscribe. Funny... this was never your stance before. Seems to me that you went around threatening to contact people's employers (and raise political hell in the case of NASA) when they posted something that offended you. Why this quick turn-around? > If you seriously want to do something constructive to reduce > the trash posting on the net, try setting a good example. > However, if posters are going to assail others with flames, > insults, lies, etc., etc., it really makes no difference > whether they use a handle or their name. What, exactly, in my posting was a flame, insult or a lie? You didn't find anything along those lines to post, did you Chucky? Know why? Cuz you are an A+, number one, slobbering, maggot-ridden-brained twit! > In addition to setting a good example, another effective means > of dealing with juvenile behavior is to simply ignore it. > Without acknoledgement, these children get bored and look > for something else to do. Your posting merely fans their flames > by admitting that they are being heard, so chill out. Oh my... Chucky's getting into the 80's now... "chill out". Why don't you go soak your head in the toilet Chucky... Seems like such a nice sport for you to take up. > CLBrunow - KA5SOF ^^^^^^-Look Ma! A technician! > Loci Products, POB 833846-131, Richardson, Texas 75083 > clb@loci.uucp, loci@killer.uucp, loci@csccat.uucp Would you buy a Loci Product from this man? -- Allen Gwinn ...sulaco!allen Disclaimer: The facts stated are my own. "At the source of every error blamed on a computer you will find at least two errors...including the error of blaming it on the computer."
allen@sulaco.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) (09/20/88)
In article <1566@eos.UUCP>, timelord@eos.UUCP (G. Murdock Helms) writes: > There has recently been a tendency towards suppression on the net that is > chilling in its implications. I am referring specifically to the removal > of at least one person's net access, perhaps even his account, due to > several complaints about his postings. I don't think that you will find anyone involved in the mass-posting that advocates net.censorship. Matter of fact, based on past history, the very people who posted the letter have stood up and complained when other's accounts were removed. We are simply advocating "taking responsibility for one's own actions". The 'pseudo' abuses from Portal are reaching record proportions. How long is it going to be before someone pulls another "jj" because he thinks nobody can find out who he is? I would probably be the first to complain if one of those little pseudo-twits lost his/her/its net access over this thing... and I think that my complaining would be followed closely by Trish, Richard, Oleg, John, John, Bill, and everyone else posting the letter. -- Allen Gwinn ...sulaco!allen Disclaimer: The facts stated are my own. "At the source of every error blamed on a computer you will find at least two errors...including the error of blaming it on the computer."
rissa@chinet.UUCP (Patricia O Tuama) (09/21/88)
In article <1566@eos.UUCP> timelord@eos.UUCP (G. Murdock Helms) writes: >There has recently been a tendency towards suppression on the net that is >chilling in its implications. I am referring specifically to the removal >of at least one person's net access, perhaps even his account, due to >several complaints about his postings. [...] > The point is: someone was able to convince >the sysadmin of that machine to remove a user who had not done anything >explicitly 'wrong'. In the first place, it wasn't a "someone" who was able to convince the sysadmin of that machine, it was a whole bunch of "someones." Secondly, our group posting did not advocate that the portal.people be suppressed or censored. We simply suggested that portal.admin require their users to put their real names in their postings. >The rule in social interaction that applies here is: If you have a problem >with an account, machine, or newsgroup, then it is YOUR problem, not the >entire world's, and therefore you alone must solve it. That may mean the >creation of a kill file, or the exercising of patience, but it still remains >*your* problem. On an individual basis perhaps, certainly it depends on the circumstances. But if a student at a particular university insists on posting his termcap to the net, not just once but twice, then I think that sort of behavior affects the net at large and not just the individual user. > People of any age younger than yourself have a desire >to be treated as an equal. In working with them, greater progress is made >with helpful comments and suggestions than with a slow roast over spiteful >and degrading flames. A simple, *polite* mail message to an 'offender' >suggesting how to access the manual pages on news readers, and how to edit >a posting for inclusion in a followup should suffice to fix the problem. Several people tried this with no success. Furthermore, although there are a few under-age portal.people around, I think it's pretty obvious that the worst offenders are actually youths in their late teens or early 20's who have made it quite apparent that they care very little about accessing manual pages or editing postings for inclusion. >As you may note, my login is not my real name. My name listing is not >my real name either. The fact that I possess the ability to change my >'name' at whim has not in any manner influenced me to post irresponsibly. Well, quite personally, "Murdock," I don't think *anyone* including you should be posting to the net unless his or her real name appears in either the headers or in a .signature file. But since you brought it up, why don't you use your real name?
childers@unet.pacbell.COM (Richard Childers) (09/21/88)
In article <1891@spdcc.COM> dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes: >Could someone fill me in on what some of these "Portal" folks have done? Could we also see something besides form letter opinions ? Every thing I've seen with the subject line defined as "A SERIOUS DILEMMA FOR THE NET" has been the same message, minus tweaks here and there, down to the char count. -- richard -- "The leech's kiss, the squid's embrace, ..!{amdahl,ames,oliveb,pacbell}! The prurient ape's defiling touch: childers@chaos.unet.pacbell.COM And do you like the human race ? No, not much." -- Aldous Huxley, 'Ape And Essence'
sullivan@vsi.UUCP (Michael T Sullivan) (09/21/88)
Why, oh why did these people post form letters. Like we aren't going to
notice that they're all the same letter. Who is worse, the people using
handles at PORTAL or these bozos insulting our intelligence ("Really, we,
er I mean I, did this all on my own!"). Talk about net.rude.
--
Michael Sullivan {uunet|attmail}!vsi!sullivan
V-Systems, Inc. Santa Ana, CA sullivan@vsi.com
whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whumpdtynan@sultra.UUCP (Dermot Tynan) (09/21/88)
It seems to me, that there is little benefit to Portal listing the users
*real* name. I mean, what are we going to do? Find someone local to
throw a brick through their window? Seriously, the problem is deeper than
that. In a way, systems like Portal are in essence ''bending the rules''
when it comes to Usenet. This network is supported by the contributions
of the associated companies and users. Portal is then making a profit from
these contributions. Sort of like a PBS station with commercials. I'm
not suggesting that services not be allowed to charge fees for reading news.
Although I do believe that sites 'pay' for their newsfeeds by contributing
valid information to the net. Something that perhaps, Portal is not doing.
Anyway, my basic point here, is that it should be defined clearly, that
"world distribution, in fact, any distribution other than local, is a
priviledge, not a right." Up to this time, we have been self-regulated,
with the fear of losing a newsfeed if netiquette isn't followed. With the
advent of pay-newsfeeds like uunet, this becomes a lot harder. We need to
impress upon the administrators at Portal the sanctity of "world distribution".
In fact, I would suggest that most of their stuff be kept locally, and perhaps
perused by someone at that end as to form and content, and then allowed
external distribution. This is tantamount to censorship, and not something
that easily fits within the usual framework of this net. The alternative,
however, is grim. Given the cost of distribution, a lot of companies may be
looking at this forum, and evaluating it for possible elimination. With a
quick examination of some of the output from Portal (not all, by any means),
and the knowledge that the company is funding the distribution of this data,
we may end up saying goodbye to some sites. In summary, I don't think a
real user-name will accomplish anything. Not being able to change 'handles'
would facilitate people in ignoring/killing certain articles, but in the long
run, Portal MUST be held accountable for its output. I think that this is a
subject which will probably be glued to this newsgroup for some time to come.
At least a whole pile of inflamed cross-discussions is better than apathy.
Comments, as usual, by email please.
- Der
--
Reply: dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Dermot Tynan @ Tynan Computers)
{mips,pyramid}!sultra!dtynan
Cast a cold eye on life, on death. Horseman, pass by... [WBY]ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) (09/21/88)
In <7090@gryphon.CTS.COM> oleg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Oleg Kiselev) and In <6817@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US> jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (John F. Haugh II) and In <6629@chinet.UUCP> rissa@chinet.UUCP (Patricia O Tuama) and In <1219@cbnews.ATT.COM> wbt@cbnews.ATT.COM (William B. Thacker), backed by a chorus of simpering toadies in alt.flame writes: >To the members of Usenet: > >Hello. There has emerged, what we feel to be a huge problem. For >a while now, the net has been plagued with postings from several >"people" at the Portal System (tm) in California. The postings are >made from ambiguous accounts such as "Spartan", "Hijacker", "Argent", >"ANKH" etc, ad nauseum. >..... This article, posted in news.admin separately by various frequent "contributors" to alt.flame, is, I contend, of irresponsible, malicious, intent. Be warned. The posting is just another step in a deliberately fanned "flame-war" which has been in progress between Kiselev and others, and the users of Portal, for some time. For those wise people who do not read alt.flame, the war mainly involves the said clique concertedly foul-mouthing the Portal users in every way possible, and for any violation they can dream up. These "violations" have in the past weeks included admitting to being 14 years old, asking what "SO" meant (I think in alt.sex), and exhibiting the other traditional manifestations of new users that we must expect. Occasionally annoying, nothing "beyond the pale". The cabal's immediate response has been of the "f*ck off little boy, and if you don't like what I'm saying then watch out because we will have your account pulled, and *we* are responsible USENET adults" variety. The very act of posting from portal has triggered the chorus! This of course has frequently provoked the portal users to retaliate in kind. Many postings are clearly *designed* to make portal users respond that way. Portal baiting has become a fine art on alt.flame! Predicatably, they are not disappointed! This creates material which is at their disposal to be manipulated at will to further fan the flames: In article <53861RWC102@PSUVM> RWC102@PSUVM (R. W. F. Clark) writes: >In article <9152@cup.portal.com>, john_f_tamburo@cup.portal.com says: >> >> [many four-letter explicatives deleted] >> >Mr. Tamburo, I think that would be singularly ill-advised.... Clark posted this in news.admin (without the deletions), although 9152@cup.portal.com appears only in alt.flame, and Clark directs followups back to alt.flame - a flagrant if clumsy attempt to make a portal user appear to be posting foul language in news.admin. Mr Tamburo certainly has a way with words (:-), but to no more excess than his opponents in alt.flame. Between the foul-mouthed rantings and vicious personality-assassinations, this purile small-minded cabal portray themselves to their victims as knights on white chargers and keepers of the net! They pretend to represent you and I. Don't take my word for it, they have, and continue to present themselves daily in alt.flame. Frankly, the spectacle is nauseating. Why do we continue to propagate the alt sub-net and support the excesses of these dregs of our USENET society? While the verbiage remained in alt.flame it was marginally supportable. To have it spill over into news.admin, and to now stomach this sanctimonious "dilemma" clap-trap is going much too far. I *do* dislike anonymous postings and I *do* have some problems with the type of access sites like Portal enable, however this attempt to coerce USENET administrators into taking sides in a flame-fest, in a bogus pretence of seeing a "serious dilemma" is at the same level of irresponsible nonsense as the jj postings, or some of the more outrageous threats of lawsuits etc. I ask the administrators of the sites whose users have posted the "serious dilemma" and associated articles to examine the evidence, closely question the actions of those users, and perhaps report back their findings to the net. -- Ray Dunn. | UUCP: ..!philabs!micomvax!ray Philips Electronics Ltd. | TEL : (514) 744-8200 Ext: 2347 600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | FAX : (514) 744-6455 St Laurent. Quebec. H4M 2S9 | TLX : 05-824090
cdaf@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Charles Daffinger) (09/21/88)
To the 'rn' question
'Are you sure you really want to do this? [ny]'
I ought to really ansower `n', but what the hell.....
People are bitching and moaning about the lack of a real user name given
in the news postings from Portal.com, but, I seem to be confused here,
as most people (including those who have participated in the form-flame)
are using Unix, many even BSD unix or it's variants. Well, there is a
unix command called 'chfn' which changes the 'finger' entry for the user,
which is also the name which appears in article attributions. What difference
is there to Unix 'chfn' to the Portal whatever it is which allows arbitrary
name selection?
Confused,
-charles
--
Charles Daffinger >Take me to the river, Drop me in the water< (812) 339-7354
cdaf@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu {pur-ee,rutgers,pyramid,ihnp4}!iuvax!cdaf
Home of the Whitewater mailing list: whitewater-request@iuvax.cs.indiana.edurissa@ddsw1.UUCP (Patricia O Tuama) (09/21/88)
In article <931@psuhcx.psu.edu> wcf@psuhcx (Bill Fenner) writes: >I'm sorry, form letters don't impress me. I agree with your sentiments, >but you *could* just say "I agree!" instead of posting the (basically) same >article with minor changes multiple times. You know, we expected people to flame us for the cross-postings (thank you, Gil) and we expected people to misunderstand what we were saying (thank you, "Murdock") but I don't think any of us expected that people would complain about the fact that we all used the same basic message. I mean it's almost as though people are accusing us of having violated some secret net.code of creativity or originality. The reason for the same message was to draw a lot of attention to what we were saying. Portal.admin appears to ignore virtually everything their users write here or how they say it. And, of course, the reason we all used the same subject line was so that people who didn't want to read about this could quickly and easily kill all of the subsequent postings at once. I must admit I am somewhat gratified, however, that so many people appear to have read them all the way through. I put a very small joke at the end of mine about machine politics here in the windy city and frankly I figured no one would see it.
msb@sq.uucp (Mark Brader) (09/21/88)
> (although I must > admit that '/portal/h:j' is in more than one of my local killfiles). As of now, "/portal/a:j" is going in *my* kill file for news.admin. This, of course, kills all articles that even *mention* the p-word. [No, I'm not a news-admin at the moment. News.admin these days is just a second news.misc. No, I don't like this state of affairs.] Mark Brader, Toronto "Those who mourn for 'USENET like it was' should utzoo!sq!msb remember the original design estimates of maximum msb@sq.com traffic volume: 2 articles/day" -- Steven Bellovin
sean@aquinas.UUCP (Sean McCollister) (09/21/88)
Before attempting to remove the speck from portal's eye, perhaps we should remove the beam from our own (well, what did you expect from a guy who names his computer aquinas? :-)) Vulgar, obnoxious, vituperative postings filled with name-calling, threats and ad-hominem attacks are commonplace. Who can blame the "Portalets" for trying to fit in? This would seem to be a good time for all of us to take a few minutes and read through "news.announce.newusers" one more time. PEOPLE read, and post to, the net. People will inevitably have disagreements. If they can't be resolved, shall we not politely "agree to disagree," and leave it at that? Why carry on like a bunch of schoolyard bullies? Why? <EOS>* ______________________________________________________________________________ * End of Sermonette sean@aquinas.UUCP or ....killer[!rpp386]!aquinas!sean
jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) (09/21/88)
In article <95@unet.pacbell.COM> childers@unet.PacBell.COM (Richard Childers) writes: >In article <1891@spdcc.COM> dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes: >>Could someone fill me in on what some of these "Portal" folks have done? > >Could we also see something besides form letter opinions ? Every thing I've >seen with the subject line defined as "A SERIOUS DILEMMA FOR THE NET" has >been the same message, minus tweaks here and there, down to the char count. childish you ignorant twit. you DID NOT actually check. had you actually looked at all of them you would have noticed that mine was not a cheap imitation copy of the form letter but a full blown paraphrase in the same tradition as stolen high school termpapers. HAD YOU LOOKED you would have seen this. but instead you open your asshole and insert your head. boy, you gotta get your head outa your butt. if you don't stop putting your head up your ass people will start thinking you have shit for brains. -- John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US) HASA, "S" Division "Why waste negative entropy on comments, when you could use the same entropy to create bugs instead?" -- Steve Elias
oleg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Oleg Kiselev) (09/22/88)
In article <848@vsi.UUCP> sullivan@vsi.UUCP (Michael T Sullivan) writes: >Why, oh why did these people post form letters. Like we aren't going to >notice that they're all the same letter. Who is worse, the people using >handles at PORTAL or these bozos insulting our intelligence ("Really, we, >er I mean I, did this all on my own!"). Talk about net.rude. Yes, you may have noticed a single message. But it would have done as little good as all previous single postings and e-mail messages trying to attract attention of PORTAL administration and the USENET community to the serious problems created by PORTAL et al. Only by doing something exteremely in bad taste (and I agree with you -- a mass posting of nearly identical message all accross the NET is extremely rude) could we have possibly hoped to get a large enough reaction to both our message and to the problem it adressed. We have, I believe, succeeded -- in some way. The PORTAL administration has failed to realize what was being asked of them. NOT censorship, NOT abolishing all flames, NOT kicking posters off -- what we called for was user education and user responcibility. Before PORTAL appeared, the most common violations of Nettiquette were freshmen and other new users at educational institution sites. The simple reminder that they will be very likely to meet the people they offend now when they start looking for a job in a few years -- probably in a capacity of interviewers and managers -- had been most sobering and effective. This trick will not work with PORTAL... -- Oleg Kiselev "No regrets, no apologies" -- Ronald Reagan (213)337-5230 ARPA: lcc.oleg@seas.ucla.edu, oleg@gryphon.cts.com UUCP:...!ucla-cs!lcc!oleg Copyright 1988 by Oleg Kiselev. All rights reserved. Quoting is allowed only if attributed.
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (09/22/88)
Don't be fooled, folks. This series of similar form letters is actually a conspiracy to distract attention away from Portal and save it from net censure. By carefully making a series of annoying, obnoxious anti-portal postings from a wide variety of sites, these users (or whoever did the posting) have actually caused many on the net to rally to the defence of Portal. At the same time, since the postings come from a variety of sites, there is no one site to draw the ire. The ire against Portal is thus diffused into the net. If they had been smart, they would have limited the use of "gryphon.CTS," but perhaps that was just to further cloud the conspiracy. Well guys, it worked. You saved Portal from attack. But we've seen through it the next time you try. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
weemba@garnet.berkeley.edu (Obnoxious Math Grad Student) (09/22/88)
In article <1988Sep21.104253.16563@sq.uucp>, msb@sq (Mark Brader) writes: >No, I'm not a news-admin at the moment. News.admin these days is >just a second news.misc. No, I don't like this state of affairs. I had been invited to join in the original mass posting. I tried to convince the list to post to news.misc instead. Honest, I did. There are certain brands of obnoxiousness I just won't touch. ucbvax!garnet!weemba Matthew P Wiener/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
rjg@sialis.mn.org (Robert J. Granvin) (09/22/88)
Maybe this is a little too obvious, and that's why I haven't seen it
even mentioned at all (or else it was too obvious, so I passed right
over it :-), but has anyone, who has problems with Portal (or any
other site, for that matter) ever bothered to _call_ them?
It just seems a simple direct approach that yields amazing results, or
in the absolute least, a much clearer understanding of what is going
on, or going to be going on...
Since portions of the Portal map have been used as "ammunition" here,
and the name(s) and phone numbers of contacts are on that map, and
since Portal answers their phones, except when they're not around,
where they leave an answering machine on (and have been known to reply
to messages :-), I'm sure that actually having a short, complete and
perhaps even gratifying conversation wouldn't be a terrible task.
--
"The greatest minds in physics Robert J. Granvin
were stumped- Tom Cruise, John National Information Systems, Inc.
Cusack and Rob Lowe all tried rjg@sialis.mn.org
and failed." ...{{amdahl,hpda}!bungia,rosevax}!sialis!rjgwbt@cbnews.ATT.COM (William B. Thacker) (09/22/88)
In article <1282@micomvax.UUCP> ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) writes: (in reference to postings by several people, including myself, about problems with Portal) [re: alleged violations of Portal users] >These "violations" have in the past weeks included admitting to being 14 >years old, asking what "SO" meant (I think in alt.sex), and exhibiting the >other traditional manifestations of new users that we must expect. What makes these violations notable are not the gaffs themselves, but the manner in which they were committed. Most of the net posters are intelligent, educated adults, or, at the very least, college students. Portal, on the other hand, gives access to many younger and less experienced users. This is acceptable, but they apparently make litte attempt to educate their users about editors or Usenet, and they further encourage rash postings by allowing anonymity via "handles". These two factors threaten to lower Usenet to the standards of a hacker's bulletin board. >They pretend to represent you and I. Not true. We represent ourselves, and, we suspect, a fair number of netters. I have no desire to represent *you*. >I *do* dislike anonymous postings and I *do* have some problems with the >type of access sites like Portal enable, however this attempt to coerce >USENET administrators into taking sides in a flame-fest, in a bogus pretence >of seeing a "serious dilemma" is at the same level of irresponsible nonsense >as the jj postings, or some of the more outrageous threats of lawsuits etc. You are most incorrect. This is NOT an attempt to generate flames; our goal was to generate RESULTS. If you'd read (once more) our postings, you'll note that all we asked was for Portal administration to include the poster's real name with the posting. We were sincere about the "serious dilemma". Your opinion is obviously different, but don't assume that we're being "irresponsible" just because we disagree with you. >I ask the administrators of the sites whose users have posted the "serious >dilemma" and associated articles to examine the evidence, closely question >the actions of those users, and perhaps report back their findings to the >net. This is exactly the point. When *I* post to the net, I put my reputation and my job on the line. If I embarrass my employer, I can expect various retributions which could go so far as to affect my career. Posters from Portal, on the other hand, risk nothing but their last month's $10 fee. Anonymity gives them courage to post things that *accountable* members of the Usenet community would never put their names to. I felt the problem was serious enough that I was willing to subject myself to the sort of scrutiny you suggest. I'd like to see Portal users similarly accountable. ------------------------------ valuable coupon ------------------------------- Bill Thacker cbosgd!cbema!wbt "C" combines the power of assembly language with the flexibility of assembly language. Disclaimer: Farg 'em if they can't take a joke ! ------------------------------- clip and save --------------------------------
oleg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Oleg Kiselev) (09/23/88)
FOR THE RECORD: In article <1282@micomvax.UUCP> ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) writes: >These "violations" have in the past weeks included admitting to being 14 >years old, asking what "SO" meant (I think in alt.sex), and exhibiting the >other traditional manifestations of new users that we must expect. >Occasionally annoying, nothing "beyond the pale". > >The cabal's immediate response has been of the "f*ck off little boy, and if >you don't like what I'm saying then watch out because we will have your >account pulled, and *we* are responsible USENET adults" variety. The very >act of posting from portal has triggered the chorus! The above is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. >Don't take my word for it, they have, and continue to present themselves >daily in alt.flame. Please do. At least you will be able to form your own opinion instead of relying the kinds of vicious disinformation Mr. Dunn is passing here as "truth". >Frankly, the spectacle is nauseating. I fully agree. Mr. Dunn's contribution to the slime flow is most disheartening. I am not sure what poilitical goals or hostilities Mr. Dunn is entertaining. >Why do we continue to propagate the alt sub-net and support the excesses of >these dregs of our USENET society? It should be pointed out that NO SITE is required to carry or propagate ALT subnet and there is no "backbone" support for it. Should Mr. Dunn's or any other site not wish to receive/propagate ALT groups, they are at liberty to do so. ALT groups like alt.sex and alt.flame or, for that matter, ALT et al are not carried by a large number of sites and by majority of "backbones". Fanning up the outrage about ALT is a smoke screen. I am at loss to explain why Mr. Dunn chooses to do that. >I ask the administrators of the sites whose users have posted the "serious >dilemma" and associated articles to examine the evidence, closely question >the actions of those users, and perhaps report back their findings to the >net. This is the only paragraph in Mr. Dunn's posting that has any merit. He does fail to realize, however, that a number of people who posted the "dilemma" article ARE system administrators. -- Oleg Kiselev "No regrets, no apologies" -- Ronald Reagan (213)337-5230 ARPA: lcc.oleg@seas.ucla.edu, oleg@gryphon.cts.com UUCP:...!ucla-cs!lcc!oleg Copyright 1988 by Oleg Kiselev. All rights reserved. Quoting is allowed only if attributed.
welty@steinmetz.ge.com (richard welty) (09/23/88)
In article <1282@micomvax.UUCP> ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) writes: >Why do we continue to propagate the alt sub-net and support the excesses of >these dregs of our USENET society? It is not for you or anyone else to tell the administrator of site which propagates alt whether or not they may continue to propagate alt (other than the site management or owners, of course.) Unless of course you propose that drastic action be taken against sites carrying alt. I suspect that this would be ineffective and possibly backfire in a rather serious fashion. >I ask the administrators of the sites whose users have posted the "serious >dilemma" and associated articles to examine the evidence, closely question >the actions of those users, and perhaps report back their findings to the >net. Me thinks that some of the postings were from site administrators. richard w -- richard welty 518-387-6346, GE R&D, K1-5C39, Niskayuna, New York welty@ge-crd.ARPA uunet!steinmetz!welty ``Then Jurgen sighed, and entered his snug home. Thus it was in the old days.'' -- James Branch Cabell
nj@eris.berkeley.edu (09/24/88)
In article <2060@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: > >Well guys, it worked. You saved Portal from attack. But we've seen through >it the next time you try. >-- >Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473 No form of humor should EVER be posted, especially in news.admin, unless followed by explicit humor-indicators*. If we moderate news.admin, this sort of reprehensible behavior would never occur. nj * Humor-indicators: also known as "smiley faces" on trash groups like talk.bizarre. Described by the following grammar: <smiley-face> ::= ':-)' See [Knuth80] for a discussion of the efficiency of smiley faces and a refutation of Hofstadter's disgusting and vile argument that they are "too cute, too silly, and just plain too stupid."
davidbe@sco.COM (The Cat in the Hat) (09/24/88)
ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) said: - -Why do we continue to propagate the alt sub-net and support the excesses of -these dregs of our USENET society? - Because those administrators who support the alt sub-net wish to. If a person doesn't like the content of a newsgroup, they are often invited to unsubscribe. The alt groups work in a similar manner on a news site admin level. If your site is recieving no benefit from the alt groups, then there is no reason to recieve them. Or, in simpler words... The alt sub-net is propogated becuase people want it. And nobody is forcing them to do so. I resent the phrase "dregs of our USENET society". Indeed, your entire article could be considered an inappropriate flame (posted to an inappropriate newsgroup) of certain individuals that you do not like. See alt.flame for a flame of your entire article. (Follow-ups not redirected, because Ray's question is appropriate for this newsgroup. My flame of this article will never be seen here, because it is not (as) appropriate. ) -- "They used to say that pot leads to heroin. Now we know it just leads to TV."
childers@unet.pacbell.COM (Richard Childers) (09/24/88)
In article <6925@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US> jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bore) writes: >childish you ignorant twit. you DID NOT actually check. had you actually Ho, hum, this 'childish' stuff is ... well, childish, y'know ? >looked at all of them you would have noticed that mine was not a cheap >imitation copy of the form letter but a full blown paraphrase in the same You barefaced liar. They were so similar I'd have to study for longer than is worth my time to find the differences. >tradition as stolen high school termpapers. HAD YOU LOOKED you would have Speak for yourself, peckerwood. I quit high school to go to college. >seen this. but instead you open your asshole and insert your head. Ah, now we get to the intellectual substance of the communique ... >boy, you gotta get your head outa your butt. if you don't stop putting >your head up your ass people will start thinking you have shit for brains. There we go. John F. Huhhh? II at his shining, whining best. Impressive, huh ? >John F. Huhhh? II (jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US) HASA, "S" Division -- richard -- "The leech's kiss, the squid's embrace, ..!{amdahl,ames,oliveb,pacbell}! The prurient ape's defiling touch: childers@chaos.unet.pacbell.COM And do you like the human race ? No, not much." -- Aldous Huxley, 'Ape And Essence'
allbery@ncoast.UUCP (Brandon S. Allbery) (09/25/88)
As quoted from <105@unet.pacbell.COM> by childers@unet.pacbell.COM (Richard Childers): +--------------- | In article <6925@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US> jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bore) writes: | There we go. John F. Huhhh? II at his shining, whining best. Impressive, huh ? +--------------- Nothing like a cure that's worse than the disease, huh? At least Naha's noise had some entertainment value. ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery, uunet!marque!ncoast!allbery DELPHI: ALLBERY For comp.sources.misc send mail to ncoast!sources-misc "Don't discount flying pigs before you have good air defense." -- jvh@clinet.FI
werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (09/25/88)
[ this article is cross-posted to news.admin and news.misc ]
[ but follow-ups are directed to news.misc, exclusively ]
recent articles from such sites as "serene" and "gryphon" may have caught
your attention also, enough to make me curious to want to learn what sites
*.CTS.COM are all about. Am I mistaken in the impression that there are some
kind of commercial time-sharing/BBS type of machines, possibly competing
with PORTAL in some ways? Please send me Email and I'll summarize and either
post or mail what I learn, depending on the number of requests I get.
I post this in the hope that readers will add to the sparse info I can find
in the maps and at NIC while at the same time indicating what I know already...
also to benefit those who may not have ready. easy access to this info...
Here is the information I found in the SRI-NIC database and UUCP-maps:
werner> telnet sri-nic.arpa
.....
SRI-NIC, TOPS-20 Monitor 6.1(7341)-4
@whois cts.com
Whois: cts.com
Crash TimeSharing (CTS-DOM)
1274 Vista Del Monte
El Cajon, CA 92020-6830
Domain Name: CTS.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Blue, Bill (BB167) bblue@CRASH.CTS.COM
(619) 444-7004
Domain servers in listed order:
RUTGERS.EDU 128.6.4.7
AOS.BRL.MIL 128.20.1.2, 192.5.25.82
HARVARD.HARVARD.EDU 10.0.0.9, 128.103.1.1
No known hosts under this secondary domain.
@whois host crash.cts.com
No match for host "crash.cts.com".
and the information in the maps:
UUCP mail information for host gryphon (#USENET lines show USENET news links):
#Name gryphon
#System-CPU-OS SCO Xenix SV
#Organization TE Technology
#Contact Gregory M. Laskin
#Electronic-Address greg@gryphon.CTS.COM
#Telephone +1 213 513-1100
#Telephone +1 213 372-1294
#Postal-Address 1165 E. 230th St., Carson, CA 90745
#Latitude-Longitude 33 54 N / 118 18 W
#Remarks gryphon is located in Redondo Beach, CA.
#Remarks gryphon has 2400 baud and Telebit Trailblazer + available.
#Written-by greg@gryphon.CTS.COM Fri Aug 26 18:58:03 PDT 1988
#USENET elroy desint aztec pande
#USENET mejac cadovax crash lakesys ddsw1 pnet02 lll-winken
#USENET marque ksala vector anb02
#
pnet02 = pnet02.cts.com
gryphon =gryphon.cts.com
gryphon pnet02(LOCAL)
pnet02 PNET(DIRECT)
gryphon amy(POLLED), anb02(DIRECT), aztec(DIRECT),
....etc....
UUCP mail information for host serene (#USENET lines show USENET news links):
#Name serene
#System-CPU-OS Fast AT clone; Xenix 286 2.2.2
#Organization RF Engineering
#Contact Rick Farris
#Electronic-Address !serene!rfarris
#Telephone (619) 259-6793 (voice)
#Postal-Address POB M, Del Mar, CA 92014
#Latitude-Longitude 33 5', 117 41'
#Remarks Unix and MS-Dos C programming. GPIB Device drivers.
#Written-by serene!rfarris (Rick Farris); Sat Aug 13 11:00:41 PDT 1988
#
serene bang(DIRECT), btree(DIRECT), crash(DEMAND), del(DEMAND), ncr-sd(DEMAND)
UUCP mail information for host bang (#USENET lines show USENET news links):
#Name bang
#System-CPU-OS AT Clone, Xenix 2.2
#Organization Internet Communications Co.
#Contact Bret Marquis
#Electronic-Address {hplabs!hp-sdd, crash, sdcsvax}!bang!bam
#Telephone 619/452-2110
#Postal-Address P.O. Box 12051, La Jolla, CA 92037
#Latitude-Longitude 32 44 N / 117 11 W city
#Remarks Host for public access P-Net, +1 619 450 0052
#Written-by crash!bblue (Bill Blue);
#USENET
#
bang crash(DEMAND), chem(DEMAND), ucsd(DEMAND), blia(DAILY),
gryphon(DAILY/2), serene(DEMAND), pnet08(LOCAL), datel(DIRECT)
bang = bigbang
bang = bang.cts.com
UUCP mail information for host crash (#USENET lines show USENET news links):
#Name .cts.com, crash
#F nosc.mil
#Organization Crash TimeSharing
#System-CPU-OS Symmetric s/375, BSD 4.2/3
#Contact Bill Blue
#Electronic-Address bblue@crash.cts.com
#Telephone +1 619 444 7004
#Postal-Address 1274 Vista Del Monte, El Cajon, CA 92020-6830
#Latitude-Longitude 32 47 N / 116 56 W
#USENET ncr-sd telesoft (full)
#USENET cacilj sdsu vixie stag gryphon pnet01 rush xroads jack elgar (partials)
#Remarks registered
#Remarks gateway to P-Net and ProLine networks
#Remarks Host to public access P-Net, +1 619 444 7006
#Written-by crash!bblue (Bill Blue); Sun Aug 28 09:21:40 PDT 1988
#
< long list of PNET-sites deleted > .... Pnet =?= PUBLIC access net?
--
--------------------> PREFERED-RETURN-ADDRESS-FOLLOWS <---------------------
(ARPA) werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Internet: 128.83.144.1)
(INTERNET) werner%rascal.ics.utexas.edu@cs.utexas.edu
(UUCP) ..!utastro!werner or ..!uunet!rascal.ics.utexas.edu!wernersoley@ontenv.UUCP (Norman S. Soley) (09/25/88)
In article <14647@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>, nj@eris.berkeley.edu writes: > In article <2060@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: > > > >Well guys, it worked. You saved Portal from attack. But we've seen through > >it the next time you try. > > No form of humor should EVER be posted, especially in news.admin, > unless followed by explicit humor-indicators*. If we moderate > news.admin, this sort of reprehensible behavior would never > occur. Somehow I don't think Brad was joking. -- Norman Soley - Data Communications Analyst - Ontario Ministry of the Environment UUCP: uunet!attcan!lsuc!ncrcan!ontenv!soley VOICE: +1 416 323 2623 OR: soley@ontenv.UUCP
greg@gryphon.CTS.COM (Greg Laskin) (09/26/88)
In article <3168@utastro.UUCP> werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) writes: >recent articles from such sites as "serene" and "gryphon" may have caught >your attention also, enough to make me curious to want to learn what sites >*.CTS.COM are all about. If you care, I responded to this in news.misc. -- Greg Laskin greg@gryphon.CTS.COM <any backbone site>!gryphon!greg
jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (The Beach Bum) (09/26/88)
In article <2060@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: >Don't be fooled, folks. This series of similar form letters is actually >a conspiracy to distract attention away from Portal and save it from net >censure. > >By carefully making a series of annoying, obnoxious anti-portal postings >from a wide variety of sites, these users (or whoever did the posting) have >actually caused many on the net to rally to the defence of Portal. far from the truth. allen has been speaking with the management at portal. he has made considerable progress towards getting the management to contribute more to the net as well as police their users better. brad simply doesn't have the facts. since the form letter posting there have been many changes made to how portal users are expected to behave. this is a good thing. brad and others attempts to minimize what has been accomplished is foolishness. the facts will be borne out. -- John F. Haugh II (jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US) HASA, "S" Division "Why waste negative entropy on comments, when you could use the same entropy to create bugs instead?" -- Steve Elias
yelorose@juniper.uucp (Bob Mosley III) (09/26/88)
In article <811@ontenv.UUCP> soley@ontenv.UUCP (Norman S. Soley) disagrees: >In article <14647@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>, nj@eris.berkeley.edu dictates: >> In article <2060@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) warns: >> > >> >Well guys, it worked. You saved Portal from attack. But we've seen through >> >it the next time you try. >> >> No form of humor should EVER be posted, especially in news.admin, >> unless followed by explicit humor-indicators*. If we moderate >> news.admin, this sort of reprehensible behavior would never >> occur. > >Somehow I don't think Brad was joking. > > ...neither do I. ...next thing you know, these geeks will get tehir daddie's lawyers in on this, and try to invoke the First Amendment on Usenet. Gah. Just remove their access for a week. That will straighten them out. (this was not meant as humor, either) 6
David_Carl_Ehlert@cup.portal.com (10/04/88)
From Jordan.... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must agree with Ken. It certainly is a problem when an entire organization [Portal] practically encourages net.abuse and gives voice to those who would probably be better off standing on a folding chair at Speakers Corner. This form letter, however, seems to be little more than a page torn from the same book. Granted, it's better written than the average portal prose and was probably actually run through spell before posting [grin], but it's still pretty dry reading after the 5th incarnation. Who are you trying to punish, the portal people or the rest of the net? <alot deleted to satisfy others...> Jordan <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don;t know about other people, but this is the THIRD copy of the same letter we have received here on PORTAL. I am not FLAMING Jordan, but reading the same stuff over and over must be costing some sites alot of time and money. Also, I take offense that he does say that PORTAL encourages its users to abuse the net. I have never seen or heard anyone who runs PORTAL encourage its users to abuse USENET. In fact, the times we have gotten together, we laugh and joke about others on USENET and their fun/weird/stupid/bright... postings. Well, enough of this. I know I will get flamed just because I am a PORTAL user, but send me mail anyways, because I like getting it. David Ehlert David_Ehlert@cup.portal.com .SIG file... We don;t need no stinkin' .SIG file...!!!
ejp@ausmelb.oz (Esmond Pitt) (10/05/88)
In article <366@pcsbst.UUCP> pcsbst!jkh@pcsbst.UUCP (Jordan K. Hubbard) writes: > > I must agree with Ken. It certainly is a problem when an entire Brilliant. So far this message has appeared 8 times, and it gets more boring every time. This appears to be deliberate: Posted: Mon Sep 26 14:56:15 1988 Posted: Mon Sep 26 14:56:15 1988 Posted: Fri Sep 30 12:16:16 1988 Posted: Fri Sep 30 16:08:22 1988 Posted: Mon Oct 3 12:48:51 1988 Posted: Mon Oct 3 13:15:05 1988 Posted: Mon Oct 3 13:19:07 1988 Posted: Mon Oct 3 18:15:45 1988 Could somebody stop the rot please. Thanks. (German thoroughness? :-)) -- Esmond Pitt, Austec International Ltd ...!uunet.UU.NET!munnari!ausmelb!ejp,ejp@ausmelb.oz
jkh@pcsbst.UUCP (Jordan K. Hubbard) (10/11/88)
I must agree with Ken. It certainly is a problem when an entire organization [Portal] practically encourages net.abuse and gives voice to those who would probably be better off standing on a folding chair at Speakers Corner. This form letter, however, seems to be little more than a page torn from the same book. Granted, it's better written than the average portal prose and was probably actually run through spell before posting [grin], but it's still pretty dry reading after the 5th incarnation. Who are you trying to punish, the portal people or the rest of the net? Something most Americans don't realize (and I speak from experience) is that a lot of this stuff goes all over the world. Us expatriate American folks living abroad get a real kick out of being able to read the alt.stuff and would be very unhappy if it got yanked because of a far-too-low SNR. Once someone downstream yanks something, it's pretty hard to convince them to put it back. The Germans are stubborn that way. So, please, flame where flaming is due, but realize that every byte costs significant bucks over-all. Why not send those form letters to postmaster@portal? It seems to me that's where they'd do the most good. Better yet, talk to the sites that feed them. Perhaps the possibility of total isolation would serve as a more effective deterrent. Jordan
yelorose@juniper.uucp (Bob Mosley III) (10/13/88)
[yet another "I agree with Ken about the Portal idiots" reposting expurgated] ...anyone have an idea as to WHY this is getting reposted again? Could it be something along the lines of someone having some sort of autokill & autosend file installed? ...either way, can the sender be prevented from wasting bandwidth like this in the future? (yeah, it's the same old "Gee, how *DO* you get rid of idiots on the net?") OM