eastick@me.utoronto.ca (Doug Eastick) (03/14/89)
[Sorry for the crossposting, followups are directed to news.admin with an ont distribution] I would like to set up a USENET site in Sudbury, Ontario in the near future. The main purpose would be to provide mail and news access to Sudbury and area computer users. A Trailblazer call to Toronto would be involved, and I would like to recover the costs by charging the users a fee. Having experience in the news administration area, I'm cautious to call my machine a "commercial" one. I only want to bring in enough money to cover the long-distance bills to Toronto, the initial investment of the system, the upkeep, and my time spent maintaining it. A minor profit could be involved. The term "Public Access" comes to mind, but I am unsure of what this implies. I'm also aware that many "commercial" sites have come under fire for allowing idiots/goofs, what have you, to post to the net. I hope to keep this under control, somehow, but hopefully it won't be needed. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions. I have directed followups to news.admin with an "ont" distribution, if you think this might be an ongoing discussion. Otherwise, use mail, I guess. -- Doug Eastick eastick@me.UTORONTO.BITNET UUCP: ...!utai!me!eastick eastick@me.toronto.edu
mnarayan@hcr.UUCP (Michael Narayan) (03/14/89)
In article <89Mar14.020238est.19867@me.utoronto.ca> eastick@me.utoronto.ca (Doug Eastick) writes: > >... > >I only want to bring in enough >money to cover the long-distance bills to Toronto, the initial >investment of the system, the upkeep, and my time spent maintaining >it. A minor profit could be involved. > ... Isn't the idea behind Usenet to provide a FREE service ? Don't existing sites provide a free service, with the site owners/operators paying for the system and administration with their own money ? I don't think that you should be charging users for Usenet access. However, if there was some standard system cost ... > >I'm also aware that many "commercial" sites have come under fire for >allowing idiots/goofs, what have you, to post to the net. I hope to >keep this under control, somehow, but hopefully it won't be needed. > ... > I don't think that you should be censoring what your users post. If they are paying for connect time to your system, then they are bearing the cost of what they write. >-- >Doug Eastick eastick@me.UTORONTO.BITNET UUCP: ...!utai!me!eastick > eastick@me.toronto.edu --------------------------------------------------------------- Michael J. Narayan HCR Corp. {utcsri!utzoo}!hcr!mnarayan Nobody else could have opinions like these. ---------------------------------------------------------------
cks@ziebmef.uucp (Chris Siebenmann) (03/19/89)
In article <5381@hcr.UUCP> mnarayan@hcrvx1.UUCP (Michael Narayan) writes: [reordered for clarity] | I don't think that you should be censoring what your users post. | If they are paying for connect time to your system, then they are | bearing the cost of what they write. On the other hand, what they post reflects on your site. I don't want my site to become known as the next Portal; that's why most postings on the Ziebmef are checked over first, and why I read all postings made from here. | Isn't the idea behind Usenet to provide a FREE service ? Don't existing | sites provide a free service, with the site owners/operators paying | for the system and administration with their own money ? I don't think | that you should be charging users for Usenet access. However, if there | was some standard system cost ... This is a widely held and (IMHO) quite wrong assumption. Many sites already charge some or all of their users to read news by charging for connect time and/or CPU time (quite possibly including Doug's current site). I see nothing wrong with explicitly charging for Usenet access (charging for access time when the only thing you offer is Usenet is currently being done by several sites). Note also that Uunet currently charges for "Usenet access" in bulk form, and may very well make a profit sometime soon -- and I for one will applaud if it happens. My current view of Usenet is that it is remarkably similar to how people can distribute the FSF's programs. People are perfectly free to charge whatever the traffic will bear to make copies of FSF programs; they just can't forbid their customers from further distributing the code. A similar rule holds for Usenet. If the people reading news from your site become dissatisfied with your rates, there is nothing preventing them from going elsewhere or setting up their own site. "Standard system cost" is an oxymoron; systems vary widely, as do the costs of running them (from nearly zero to VERY high -- consider how much attcan must be paying in phone bills!). Doug is certainly going to have some continuing costs for the long-distance calls to get news to Sudbury, and TB+ modems and large disks don't come cheap either. -- "Though you may disappear, you're not forgotten here And I will say to you, I will do what I can do" Chris Siebenmann uunet!{utgpu!moore,attcan!telly}!ziebmef!cks cks@ziebmef.UUCP or .....!utgpu!{,ontmoh!,ncrcan!brambo!}cks
emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) (03/22/89)
In article <5381@hcr.UUCP> mnarayan@hcrvx1.UUCP (Michael Narayan) writes: > >Isn't the idea behind Usenet to provide a FREE service ? Well, no, not exactly. I think a useful goal is to provide a stable, self-sustaining, growing service that's relatively resiliant to shocks from external forces. Free it ain't. (I took off the ont distribution, followups to news.misc)
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (03/23/89)
In article <5381@hcr.UUCP> mnarayan@hcrvx1.UUCP (Michael Narayan) writes: >Isn't the idea behind Usenet to provide a FREE service ? Don't existing >sites provide a free service, with the site owners/operators paying >for the system and administration with their own money ? ... Often not so. Back in the days when news got imported to the Toronto area by 1200-baud modem, there was an organized cost-sharing agreement among local sites to help cover the phone bill. Free service can be rather expensive. -- Welcome to Mars! Your | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology passport and visa, comrade? | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu