karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) (06/22/89)
In article <114@utower.UUCP> fischer@utower.UUCP (Axel Fischer) writes: >In article <786@redsox.bsw.com> campbell@redsox.bsw.com (Larry Campbell) writes: >>I really don't understand this. Who do you have to pay the $200 to? >$200 goes to unido "University of Dortmund" the german backbone. >But ... in germany unido have the monopol for the connection to USA. No one >(no system administrator) is allowed to give you a Newsfeed if your are not >registered at unido and if you don't pay the fee. >You get also every month a bill for the mailing costs. >>can NOT believe that it costs $47,000 per month just to get Usenet >>traffic across the ocean!! >YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT !!!!! We all don't know either what they are doing with >this much money. We have no idea. This sounds like something we can help with :-) Get ten or so systems together, and have one of them poll us. We'll feed 'ya over there in Germany if you can call here. We have a Telebit, and the spare capacity. And we're reliable as a news source. Then distribute the newsgroups you get and take donations to defray the costs. Once you have a few sites doing this Unido will look quite a bit less attractive... and they will fall to the almighty God of Capitalism...... At $1.50 a minute, and a full newsfeed running about 20-30 minutes a day on the Telebit, you're looking at a little over a thousand bucks a month -- split 10 ways, that's HALF the Unido cost! And once you're free of unido, you can do better -- get 20, 30, or even 50 sites involved. Well worth doing, if you ask me. I run this site, so it's certainly within my power to give out newsfeeds. Any other European sites with the same problem are welcome to contact us as well; we're flexible and have spare Telebit capacity. Down with monopolies! -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 312 566-8911], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"
root@cca.ucsf.edu (Systems Staff) (06/23/89)
In article <3631@ddsw1.MCS.COM>, karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: > In article <114@utower.UUCP> fischer@utower.UUCP (Axel Fischer) writes: > >In article <786@redsox.bsw.com> campbell@redsox.bsw.com (Larry Campbell) writes: > > >>can NOT believe that it costs $47,000 per month just to get Usenet > >>traffic across the ocean!! > The posting from the EUUG board member states that the full news feed is only shared by 35 sites and that a full feed is $150 so we are looking at an order of magnitude less cash here if he is correctly informed. Transmission via high speed modem (e.g. Telebit which I gather from other postings is the fastest legal modem) would take on the order of an hour per night which at $1.50/minute (his figure) would be around $2700 per month out of the $5250 from the above full subscription figure. There are obviously other costs, so this looks like a reasonable amount. Sounds to me like they are engaging in a classic case of pricing themselves out of the market. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't find ten times as many clients at $30/month for a doubling of their revenue. Remember, they don't direct feed everyone; you pay them even if you get the news by relay. Thos Sumner Internet: thos@cca.ucsf.edu (The I.G.) UUCP: ...ucbvax!ucsfcgl!cca.ucsf!thos BITNET: thos@ucsfcca U.S. Mail: Thos Sumner, Computer Center, Rm U-76, UCSF San Francisco, CA 94143-0704 USA OS|2 -- an Operating System for puppets. #include <disclaimer.std>
stefan@yendor.phx.mcd.mot.com (Stefan Loesch) (06/24/89)
In article <3631@ddsw1.MCS.COM> karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: > >This sounds like something we can help with :-) >Get ten or so systems together, and have one of them poll us. We'll feed >'ya over there in Germany if you can call here. We have a Telebit, and the > >Down with monopolies! > Sorry. No Go. There is ONE huge German monopoly : the Bundespost. You have REAL difficulties getting anything quicker than 1200 Baud. Hayes compatible ? Trailblazer ? You might end in prison for using one of those. DOWN WITH MONOPOLIES! ESPECIALLY STATE MONOPOLIES! Stefan uunet!asuvax!mcdphx!yendor!stefan
philip@axis.fr (Philip Peake) (06/26/89)
In article <3631@ddsw1.MCS.COM>, karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: > > At $1.50 a minute, and a full newsfeed running about 20-30 minutes a day on > the Telebit, you're looking at a little over a thousand bucks a month -- If you had read all of the articles on this subject you would have learned that you can only use APPROVED modems in Germany - Traliblazers are certainly not approved. You are asking people to break the law. Philip
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (06/26/89)
Germany) Summary: Expires: References: <786@redsox.bsw.com> <114@utower.UUCP> <3631@ddsw1.MCS.COM> <11148@yendor.phx.mcd.mot.com> Sender: Reply-To: sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Corpane Industries, Inc. Keywords: In article <11148@yendor.phx.mcd.mot.com> stefan@yendor.UUCP (0000-Admin) writes: >You have REAL difficulties getting anything quicker than 1200 Baud. >Hayes compatible ? Trailblazer ? You might end in prison for using >one of those. Prison? Last time I was in West Germany, it was a free country. Why would it be illegal to own a trailblazer? -- John Sparks | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 1200bps ||||||||||||||| sparks@corpane.UUCP | 502/968-5401 thru -5406 If you've seen one nuclear war, you've seen them all.
woods@ncar.ucar.edu (Greg Woods) (06/28/89)
In article <3631@ddsw1.MCS.COM> karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: >Get ten or so systems together, and have one of them poll us. We'll feed >'ya over there in Germany if you can call here. We have a Telebit, and the >spare capacity. And we're reliable as a news source. > >Then distribute the newsgroups you get and take donations to defray the costs. >Once you have a few sites doing this Unido will look quite a bit less >attractive... and they will fall to the almighty God of Capitalism...... This might work, and as some readers of this group may recall, I have even been contacted by someone in Germany who was considering setting up something like this (and I got quite a list of volunteers to feed them; no problem there). However, there is one thing that must be borne in mind: right now there is no path to the rest of Europe that doesn't either go to the US and back through mcvax, or through unido. EUnet is not about to forward mail for sites that are not paying the fees at the expense of those who are. This means that a group of sites using this setup could get news, and send mail to the US, but they couldn't send mail to anyone on EUnet, which would include all European sites outside of their little group. This might be a fairly high price to pay just to save money. --Greg
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (06/28/89)
In article <852@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >... Last time I was in West Germany, it was a free country. Why would it be >illegal to own a trailblazer? It's probably not illegal to *own* one. To connect it to the phone system, now, that's a whole different kettle of sauerkraut... -- NASA is to spaceflight as the | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology US government is to freedom. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) (06/28/89)
In article <571@axis.fr> philip@axis.fr (Philip Peake) writes: >In article <3631@ddsw1.MCS.COM>, karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: >> At $1.50 a minute, and a full newsfeed running about 20-30 minutes a day on >> the Telebit, you're looking at a little over a thousand bucks a month -- >If you had read all of the articles on this subject you would have learned >that you can only use APPROVED modems in Germany - Traliblazers are certainly >not approved. They're not? May I ask how Unido is using these "unapproved" modems? (in the prior messages it was noted that they use Telebits). You don't have to make a "profit" to profit from an activity. I have no problem with people profiting from work - - that's what capitalism is all about. My question is this -- if someone DOES bypass unido, connects to us, and sends mail to some other site in Germany...... that mail comes here, is routed to the german host, and arrives via unido -- are they going to blacklist the "unofficial" site and bounce the mail? If so, then I would say that it is in the interests of everyone else to bounce mail to or from unido -- in other words, turnabout is fair play. When connectivity becomes non-existant for them, they might reconsider their position. Our offer of a feed, mail or news, to any foreign concern who asks stands. Email is all that is required to get it set up. -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 312 566-8911], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"
bill@twwells.com (T. William Wells) (06/29/89)
In article <852@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: : In article <11148@yendor.phx.mcd.mot.com> stefan@yendor.UUCP (0000-Admin) : writes: : >You have REAL difficulties getting anything quicker than 1200 Baud. : >Hayes compatible ? Trailblazer ? You might end in prison for using : >one of those. : : Prison? Last time I was in West Germany, it was a free country. Why would it be : illegal to own a trailblazer? Try delivering first class mail in the US. While I don't *think* they'll put you in prison for doing that, they can certainly take everything but the shirt off your back. Can you spell M O N O P O L Y? Yes, the good old-fashioned kind, openly backed by government force. I doubt there is a single country in the world that doesn't have at least one major (on a local scale, anyway) one. Vomit. --- Bill { uunet | novavax | ankh | sunvice } !twwells!bill bill@twwells.com (BTW, I called Telebit and asked a few questions. Here's what they said: Right now, the Telebit is approved in the UK and in Holland. It might be approved or close to approval in other countries, the person I spoke to wasn't sure. People in the US can call Donna Delaney at 1-800-TELEBIT x4756 for more information; people in Europe can contact Michael Farmer in Luxembourg at 352-31-96-45, and can FAX him at 352-31-96-72. I have no relationship to Telebit other than as a satisfied customer.)
flash@cs.qmc.ac.uk (Flash Sheridan) (06/30/89)
In article <571@axis.fr> philip@axis.fr (Philip Peake) writes: >In article <3631@ddsw1.MCS.COM>, karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: >> >> At $1.50 a minute, ... > >If you had read all of the articles on this subject you would have learned >that you can only use APPROVED modems in Germany - Traliblazers are certainly ^^^ (note misuse of language) >not approved. > >You are asking people to break the law. Damn straight, you Euro-wimp. -- --- From: flash@cs.qmc.ac.uk (Flash Sheridan) Reply-To: sheridan@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Portal,MacNet: FlashsMom
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (07/07/89)
In article <1989Jun29.153716.14425@twwells.com> bill@twwells.com (T. William Wells) writes: >In article <852@corpane.UUCP> sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) writes: >: Prison? Last time I was in West Germany, it was a free country. Why >: would it be >: illegal to own a trailblazer? > >Try delivering first class mail in the US. While I don't *think* >they'll put you in prison for doing that, they can certainly take >everything but the shirt off your back. > Yep, I understand now. I figured out what was meant by it being illegal to use trailblazers in Germany about 1 day after I posted my message. It's like me deciding that I want to hook my toaster up to my telephone line. South Central Bell might not like that too much. I don't think I would be arrested though. They would cut off my service and charge me for any damages. If I didn't pay they would sue me. But that is because they are a business. If the government was running the show, I would be in prison. Let's say I decided to make a nifty new radio-blend-o-matic. The FCC would have the device and me confiscated before you could say "ronco". Governments always tend to overreact. Unless you actually *WANT* them to take some action, then they drag their feet for months. Oh, well, Now that I am straitened out on the modem issue, I am just sitting back and watching the ongoing show. It is pretty interesting. :-) -- John Sparks | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 1200bps ||||||||||||||| sparks@corpane.UUCP | 502/968-5401 thru -5406 My interest is in the future because I am going to spend the rest of my life there.