randall@uvaarpa.virginia.edu (Randall Atkinson) (08/25/89)
In article <19433@usc.edu> kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: ( other stuff was deleted here) >In all this I obviously respect the right of system administrators to reject >any group, but if the group does in fact pass, then it should at least be >created. Greg Woods has no obligation to anyone to issue any newgroup just as no system is obliged to carry any group. What is silly is that Dennis Kriz was told before the vote that people wouldn't object to creating TALK.rights.human but objected strenuously to creating SOC.rights.human and that now he is surprised that many sites (apparently including some former "backbone" sites) aren't carrying the group. Please note that I have nothing to do with administration here on uvaarpa or at The Univeristy of Virginia for that matter. I speak for myself.
kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) (08/25/89)
In article <578@uvaarpa.virginia.edu> randall@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU (Randall Atkinson) writes: >In article <19433@usc.edu> kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >( other stuff was deleted here) >>In all this I obviously respect the right of system administrators to reject >>any group, but if the group does in fact pass, then it should at least be >>created. > >Greg Woods has no obligation to anyone to issue any newgroup just >as no system is obliged to carry any group. Greg Woods IS obligated to create the group if it says that to create the group one can send a message to that effect to "newgroup@ncar.ucar.edu" If this is not the case, then strike that line from the guide that is posted on how to create a newsgroup. [And after this experience I strongly recommend that]. > >What is silly is that Dennis Kriz was told before the vote that >people wouldn't object to creating TALK.rights.human but objected >strenuously to creating SOC.rights.human and that now he is >surprised that many sites (apparently including some former "backbone" >sites) aren't carrying the group. > What is silly is that this objection was only voiced *after* I put the group up for a vote. I got some 50 letters during the discussion portion of the procedure for newsgroup creation. Only 2 mentioned that the group should be a "talk" group instead of a "soc" group. No one posted ANYTHING on news.groups concerning the group during the discussion at all ... 'cept me... ASKING PEOPLE TO POST THEIR SUGGESTIONS. Only when I put the group up for a vote, were there objections made. The vote did carry ... and by a large margin. Why "soc" and not "talk" ... The inspiration for SRH was SCC (soc.culture.china). There are a lot of people in the same predicament as the Chinese, and it seemed like a logical extention, one that could clearly be made by those who subscribe to SCC now. SCC also is carried world-wide, whereas "talk" groups tend to stay state-side. Do you know I got votes from as far as NEW ZEALAND, and SEVERAL from FINLAND for this group? This not to mention more from the UK. The honest thing would be to respect the choice made. I understand that this will take time. But I hope that it will ultimately take place. dennis
kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) (08/25/89)
This was the vote tally for the group in question...
dennis
soc.rights.human results:
YES 328
NO 46
That's 282 more YES votes than NO votes... only 100 more YES votes than
NO votes were needed.
dennis (kriz@skat.usc.edu)
Voting list follows:
************************************************************************
Votes for soc.rights.human: 328
tedrick@ernie.berkeley.edu (Tom Tedrick)
msmith@topaz.rutgers.edu (Mark Robert Smith)
londono@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu (Felix Londono)
jack%cs.glasgow.ac.uk%NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Jack Campin)
kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz)
H.Barnard%massey.ac.nz@RELAY.CS.NET (Henry Barnard)
ruffwork@edison.CS.ORST.EDU (Ritchey Ruff)
biep@sc.vu.nl (J.A. 'Biep' Durieux)
gp@information-systems.east-anglia.ac.uk (George Papadopoulos)
hossein@harris.cis.ksu.edu (Hossein Saiedian) 10
dave@cgdra.UCAR.EDU (David Darr)
davel@whuts.att.com (Dave Loewenstern)
steve@violet.berkeley.edu (Steve Goldfield)
tittle@PARIS.ICS.UCI.EDU (Cindy Tittle)
harish@cs.utexas.edu (Harish Balan)
sanders@grads.cs.ubc.ca (Michael Sanderson)
farhad%Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Farhad)
osterman@cmcl2.NYU.EDU
silber%pcs0@voodoo.ucsb.edu (Eric Silber)
raja@cpsvax.cps.msu.edu (Narayan Sriranga Raja) 20
b645zax%utarlg.decnet@utadnx.cc.utexas.edu (David Richardson)
lzfme!ralph@att.att.com (Ralph Brandi)
randolph@Sun.COM (Randolph Fritz)
debbie%csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Debbie Wolden Forest)
akatz@mizar.usc.edu (Alex Katz)
dm@Think.COM (David Mankins)
wucs1.wustl.edu (Wei Chen)
holtm@DG-RTP.DG.COM (Mark Holt)
SOPPHO@SRI-NIC.ARPA (Lynn Gazis)
spector@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Mitchell Spector) 30
cbnewsm!ktw@att.att.com (Ken Wolman)
hijab%cubcad%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Raif Hijab)
johnwu%Sun.COM%cs.utexas.edu%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp
fishkin%pixar%ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU%ucbcad%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Ken Fishkin)
liu%cs.UCSD.EDU%ucsd%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp
stodol@diku.dk (David Stodolsky)
artemis@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
dwayne@nisc.nyser.net (Dwayne Herron)
tim@toad.com (Tim Maroney)
steved@Sun.COM (Steve Dever) 40
arnold@uhccux.hawaii.edu (Arnold Edelstein)
anderson%ncrcce%ncrlnk.dayton.ncr.com@RELAY.CS.NET (Joel Peter Anderson)
lin@polya.Stanford.EDU (Fangzhen Lin)
maffray@aramis.rutgers.edu (Fred Maffray)
wrgo@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Wesley Rex Go)
tap@ephemeral.ai.toronto.edu (Tony Plate)
djgrabin@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Joseph Grabiner)
wdh@well.uucp (Bill Hofmann)
russ@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Russell Ruby)
tjw@unix.cis.pittsburg.edu (Terry) 50
lfog%pbhyf%pacbell%ames.uucp%elroy.uucp (Lee)
alan%essex.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Alan M. Stanier)
cucard!dasys!gf@columbia.edu (Gordon Fitch)
ll-tis!ames!mailrus!sharkey!spirit!john (John F. Godfrey)
wood%vaxwller%varian%pacbell%ames.arc.nasa.gov@cs.utexas.edu (John Wood)
mchen@violet.waterloo.edu (Mo Chen)
michael@psych.toronto.edu (Micheal Gemar)
lloyd!sunfs!geoff@husc6.harvard.edu (Geoffrey S. Knauth)
tarvaine@jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen)
kguinn@tyche.cair.du.edu (Kipp J. Guinn) 60
primer@szriski.harvard.edu (Jeremy Primer)
morrisj@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Jim Morrison)
ls2r@andrew.cmu.edu (Lui Sieh)
icdi10!fr@uunet.UU.NET (Fred Rump)
Cindy.Long.@f333.n221.z1.findonet.org (Cindy Long)
nick%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Nick Taylor)
alaa@pedsgo.tinton.ccur.com
hill@cs.Buffalo.EDU
dww@stl.stc.co.uk (David Wright)
colsmith%ihlpf%att.uucp%ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Marcia Colsmith) 70
f-jax@ifi.uio.no (Johny Axelsson)
rissa@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Patricia O Tuama)
lawrence@tusun2.knet.UTulsa.Edu (Mark Lawrence)
hamilton@caf.mit.edu (David P. Hamilton)
jjo@kolvi.hut.fi (Jorma PJ Jokela)
phri!manhat!dasys1!patth@rutgers.edu (Patt Haring)
sar10401@@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sheryo A Rutter)
cdsm%doc.imperial.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Chris Moss)
kivi@watcsc.waterloo.edu (J. Kivi Shapiro)
davidt@hcx.psu.edu (Thomas S. David) 80
mrys@ethz.uucp (Michael Rys)
keirouz@SLCS.SLB.COM
najmi%hpesofn.HP.COM (Farrukh Najmi)
istanbul@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Jon Chipman)
davidb@psych.toronto.edu
whutt!jad@att.att.com (John DiNardo)
moocow!brodie@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Kent C. Brodie)
sundeep@norby.acns.nwu.edu (Sundeep Kumar Gupta)
jamesm@sco.com (James Moore)
rnevanl@tukki.jyu.fi (Risto Nevanlinna) 90
Plowman.PA@Xerox.COM (Elizabeth)
pyramid!tmpmbx!netmbx.UUCP!martini@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Martin P Ibert)
delatizk@DINO.BBN.COM (Jonathan Delatizky)
kss%gt-elsa@gatech.edu (Kevin Smith)
SHENF@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Zhiyong Shen)
lai@apple.com (Ed Lai)
sparker@cod.nosc.mil (Sally Parker)
ccastgs%prism@gatech.edu (Glenn Stone)
aitken@cs.cornell.edu (William E. Aitken)
ischick@BBN.COM (Irvin C. Schick) 100
mvtran@watmum.waterloo.edu (Mihn V. Tran)
msmith@topaz.rutgers.edu (Mark Smith)
paulk@caen.engin.umich.edu (Paul Kominsky)
bgoldma%hydra.unm.edu@ariel.unm.edu (Bill Goldman)
dino@Portia.stanford.edu (Denise Chuk)
knaredd2@ub.D.UMN.EDU (Krishna)
mlm7@windom.UCAR.EDU (Micah L. Moore)
tom@mims-iris.waterloo.edu (Tom Haapanen)
kumar%par1@cs.umass.edu (Varadaraju Nandakumar)
alanb@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Alan Benner) 110
arc!chet@apple.com (Chet Wood)
mtunh!yjt@att.att.com
dewey%execu@cs.utexas.edu (Dewey Henize)
venky@engc1.dal.utexas.edu (Venkatesan)
denning@csli.Stanford.EDU (Keith Denning)
aem@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
mahesh%pyrhard2.pyramid.com%pyramic%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Mahesh Jethandani)
sbj421@leah.Albany.EDU (S B Jacobson)
joan@albanycs.albany.edu (Joan Bentley)
hbm@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (hasan.b.mutlu) 120
raj1@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (rajeev.b.patil)
sbt@cbnews.ATT.COM (sb tobias)
sb5w@babbage.acc.virginia.edu (Shekhar)
GA.EKM%STANFORD.BITNET (Elaine Moise)
erik@wsl.dec.com (Erik)
wsk@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Bill Kaster)
joe@cit-750.cs.caltech.ecu (Joe Beckenbach)
AJ3U@prime.acc.virginia.edu (Asim)
katzman@math.lsa.umich.edu
bbb1s@hudson.acc.virginia.edu (banerjee bibhuti bhusan) 130
ajat@goofy.cc.utexas.edu
kevind%pogo.wv.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET (Kevin Draz)
jj@research.att.com
hfan@duvan.nada.kth.se (Huaan Fan)
cai@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
kittel%garfield.cs.wisc.edu@cs.wisc.edu (Luke F. Kittell)
lbr%holos0%gatech%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Len Reed)
comcon!roy@uunet.UU.NET (Roy Silvernail)
erict%flatline@cs.utexas.edu (J. Eric Townsend)
fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars P. Fischer) 140
ihlpb!sine@att.att.com (Surensoy)
kumarv@paul.rutgers.edu (Kumar)
gnosys!gst@wjh12.harvard.edu (Gary S. Trujillo)
paithan@iron.ecn.purdue.edu (Dilip Y Paithankar)
souther@cs.utexas.edu (art)
jac@paul.rutgers.edu (Jonathan A. Chandross)
kashyap@paul.rutgers.edu (Vipul)
sas!sasrag@mcnc.org (Russell Gonsalves)
barley@aramis.rutgers.edu
rangaraj@ucf.edu@RELAY.CS.NET (Rangaraj) 150
jags%diablo%amdcad%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Jagadish Sarniak)
swenson@paul.rutgers.edu (David A. Swenson)
sasan@watsup.waterloo.edu (Sasan Soltani)
aman@gb.ecn.purdue.edu (Amril Aman)
lugowski@ngstl1.csc.ti.com or marek@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Marek Lugowski)
e05@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Karen)
jcgs@harlqn.co.uk (John Sturdy)
JUVVADIR%VTCC1.BITNET@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU
brian@apollo.com (Brian Holt)
mike@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Michael I. Bushnell) 160
jrw@Princeton.EDU (Jeffrey Westbrook)
kinfung@iwlcs.att.com (Kin Fung)
idury@rice.edu (Ramana Idury)
chomicki@brillig.umd.edu (Jan Chmicki)
sbchanin@SJ.ATE.SLB.COM
tej@philabs.Philips.Com (Tejwansh Singh Anand)
jayasim@cis.ohio-state.edu (D Jayasimha)
mtc@cbnewsc.ATT.COM (marguerite.t.czajka)
carolo%tekig5.pen.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET (Carol Odlum)
tomg%ntpdvp1%mcnc.org%gatech%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Tom Groot) 170
86131%LAWRENCE.BITNET (Bill Chadwick)
elnitsky%math.lsa.umich.edu (Serge Elnitsky)
bogdon@tcgould.TN.CORNELL.EDU (Philip Bogdonoff)
sethg@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Seth Gordon)
kgordon@brandx.rutgers.edu (Ken Gordon)
ldweiss@pilot.njin.net (Lynne Wiess)
aormeci@vmsa.cf.uci.edu (Alim Ormeci)
songj@ee.ecn.purdue.edu (Jisheng Song)
vijitha@pender.ee.upenn.edu (vijitha weerackody)
suresh@nls2.nlm.nih.gov (Suresh Srninivasan) 180
craig%n8ino%ubbs0nh%decvax%decwrl%ames.uucp@ll-xn.uucp (R. Craig Peterson)
cblpn!jdd@att.att.com (John Daleske)
rsk@boulder.colorado.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
franciskovich-dennis@YALE.ARPA (Dennis Franciskovich)
spingal@hubcap.clemson.edu (sridhar pingali)
dorai@rice.edu (dorai)
SEK@PSUVM.BITNET (Sonya Kueppers)
linx@frith.egr.msu.edu (Lin)
kja@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (krista.j.anderson)
t.bear%oxy.uucp (Laura Shannon Duggan) 190
siddarth%cs.utexas.edu (Siddarth Subramanian)
guncer@nunki.usc.edu (Selim Guncer)
rwcraigen@violet.waterloo.edu (Rob Craigen)
dsherrod@ucqais.uc.edu (David Sherrod)
sanjay@cs.wisc.edu (Sankay Krishnamurthi)
vaidya@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu (Nitin H. Viadya)
tadpole@math.ucla.edu (Tad White)
nguyen@blanche.ICS.UCI.EDU
horne-scott@YALE.ARPA (Scott Horne)
baparao@brighton.usc.edu (K.V. Bapa Rao) 200
breck@umvlsi.ecs.umass.edu (William Breck)
muhanna@stock.ohio-state.edu (Waleed Muhanna)
drutx!mgrav@att.att.com
bell@cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
bekele@fsadmn.enet.dec.com (Dan)
TAZ%PSUVM.BITNET (Sanjay Dixit)
shdesai%amcad%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Sohag Desai)
kyw@cs.purdue.edu (Ko-Yang Wang)
cbrooks@noor.berkeley.edu (Charles Brooks)
jbc@cs.utexas.edu (JBChambers) 210
cun!quintus!pds@apple.com (Peter Schachte)
frear@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (lori.frear)
jhm%lfcs.edinburgh.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (James McKinna)
ghm%chema@ucsd.edu (Ghirmai Meresi)
ficc!bradc@uunet.UU.NET
ficc!jeffd@uunet.UU.NET (Jeff Daiell)
UC9@PSUVm.BITNET (Dex Shi)
ames!enuxha.EAS.AUS.EDU!nagar@apple.com (Chandrashekhar Nagar "Shekhar")
att!shuxd!gep@cis.ohio-state.edu (Gary E. Pratt)
choppell@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (Venkatesh Choppella) 220
bwalker@EAGLE.MIT.EDU (Donna Baranski-Walker)
vision!chris@uunet.UU.NET (Chris Davies)
mtgzx!jis@att.att.com (Jishnu Mukerji)
schroder@BBN.COM (Ken)
sandy@PEDEV.Columbia.NCR.COM%PEDEV%ncrcae%ncr-sd%scubed%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp
PQW@PSUVM.BITNET (Phillip Wood)
terry@brillig.umd.edu (Terry Gaasterland)
SCHAFFER@northwestern.edu (Dan Schaffer)
deb%jloda%cci632%rochester%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Debbie Brown)
atluri%husc2@harvard.harvard.edu (Pradeep Atluri) 230
malc@tahoe.unr.edu (Malcolm Carlock)
attunix!billg@att.att.com (William F. Griffeth Jr)
teddy@attunix.att.com (Teddy Chu)
raz-amir@YALE.ARPA (Amir Raz)
hnessterm%x102a@HARRIS-ATD.COM (Harvey Newstrom)
kasim@ksuvax1.cis.ksu.edu (Abdul Kasim)
cbnews!wv@att.att.com (Bill Duncan)
ST60362@oregon.uoregon.edu (Fahad Alzarah)
grace%b11%ingr@uunet.UU.NET (Grace Oliver)
lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson) 240
rayssd!hxe@uunet.UU.NET (Heather Emanuel)
FRN@PSUVM.BITNET
dieugeni@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Barbara Di Eugenio)
sf352%city.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Paul Abraham)
IUTS0%ccuab1.uab.es (Sean Golden)
ST902620@BROWNVM.BITNET (Garrett Fitzgerald)
kaxelson%hombre.MASA.COM%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Kevin Axelson)
cate@m2.csc.ti.com (Darryl Cate)
rene@rixe.edu (Rene G. Rodriguez)
gss%arcturus%edsdrd@uunet.UU.NET 250
lash%ihlpf.uucp@att.att.com (Lash R. Bellavia)
as%computer-lab.cambridge.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (suresh)
wolit@mhuxd.att.com (Jan Wolitzky)
tamar@attunix.att.com
pohl@swatsun.cs.swarthmore.edu (Walt Pohl)
pixar.UUCP!young@cgl.ucsf.EDU (Bruce Young)
leonard%iro.umontreal.ca@RELAY.CS.NET (Nicolas Leonard)
jkg@nbsr.mc.duke.edu (James Kenneth Gobble)
kaminsky-david@YALE.ARPA (David Kaminsky)
eric%yuba%wrs.uucp@uunet.uucp (Eric Stromberg) 260
kathy%sdacs@ucsd.edu (Kathy McNamara)
M.Jones@MASSEY.AC.NZ
phri!manhat!dasys1!oaktree@rutgers.edu (Paul Busby)
woolard@uns-helios.NEVADA.EDU
rick@pavlov.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
gwydion@rice.edu (Basalat Ali Raja)
sr0o@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Ritter)
richards@UTKCS2.UTK.EDU (Jon Richardson)
pravin@cwsys2.CWRU.EDU (Pravin Maheshwari)
crowe@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Daniel Crowe) 270
hansen@pegasus.att.com (t.l.hansen)
druco!bish@att.att.com
guido@research.att.com (M Christina Guidorizzi)
dbell%maths.tcd.ie
ichiro@enzyme.Berkeley.Edu
mic@theory.lcs.mit.edu
unido!stoch.fmi.uni-passau.ed!sluka@uunet.UU.NET (Bernd Sluka)
Sean.Smith@theory.cs.cmu.edu
PHYS168@canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Wadsworth)
PHYS176@canterbury.as.nz (Roy Seaton) 280
imagen!isaak@decwrl.dec.com (Mark Isaak)
hari@paul.rutgers.edu (Hampapuram)
LEISTI@cc.Helsinki.FI (Teemu Leisti)
jdinkins@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
dasys1!barb@cucard.med.columbia.edu (Barbara Krasnoff)
karunani@handel.colostate.edu (n karunanithi)
dgross@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Davod Gross)
chohan@hpuxa.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Harpal Chohan)
moe@hydra.usc.edu (Imdakm)
jhan@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (J.N. Han) 290
swn@unccvax.uncc.edu (swami manohar)
mchen@CS.UCLA.EDU (Meng Chang Chen)
sun%mps@pacific.ohio-shate.edu
razdan@eecs.nwu.edu (Ashutosh Razdan)
jai@helium.ecn.purdue.edu (Jayakumar Srinivasan)
levene@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Robert A. Levene)
yongduan@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (Yong Duan)
hari@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (Hari Shankar)
agrawal@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Girish Agrawal)
nrm@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Niranjan Mayya) 300
cvl!sher@mimsy.umd.edu (Chiaoyung Allen Sher)
mnd@cunixb.ee.columbia.edu (Mohib N. Durrani)
wclx@VAX5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU (Lawrence Kestenbaum)
solomon@kestrel.nmt.edu (R. Solomon)
inners@cs.wisc.edu (Michael Inners)
RYLE@urvax.urich.edu (Martin Ryle)
sunil@alv.umd.edu (Sunil Arya)
steve%revolver@gatech.edu (Steve Fischer)
JIM@AUVM.AUVM.EDU (Jim McIntosh)
kw9y@vax5.ccs.cornell.edu (Dan Kartch) 310
cs80kks@unccvax.uncc.edu (Komal Sundaram)
vaseem%berlioz.nsc.com%nsc%voder%claris%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Vaseem)
keirouz@SLCS.SLB.COM
SXC109@PSUVMXA.BITNET
veena@cs.utexas.edu (Veena A. Gondhalekar)
zql%aipna.edinburgh.ac.uk@NSFnet-Relay.AC.UK (Ziqung Li)
js%FRLRI61.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Jose Lopes De Siqueira)
MIKOLAJ@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Mikolaj Jozefowisc)
psgdc!rg@uunet.UU.NET (Dick Gill)
musella@cs.Buffalo.EDU (David Park Musella) 320
neilson@skat.usc.edu
lear@NET.BIO.NET (Eliot Lear)
defee@tut.fi (Irek)
schissel@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel)
mouchan@blake.acs.washington.edu (Mou Chan)
annarbor@blake.acs.washington.edu (Robert Holcomb)
am3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jill Moore)
jp%frog.uucp%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (John Pimentel)
***************************************************************************
Votes against soc.rights.human: 46
friedman@aramis.rutgers.edu (Gadi)
rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz)
woods@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Greg Woods)
arrom@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu
cew@venera.isi.edu (Craig E. Ward)
mr@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (Mark)
heiby@chg.mcd.mot.com (Ron Heiby)
Ilan%cup.portal.com%portal%claris%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Ilan Rabinowitz)
bob%koosh%tekspa%lll-winken%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Bob Weissman)
sewilco%datapg%uunet%lll-winken%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Scot E. Wilcoxon) 10
texbell!splut!jay@cs.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
ephraim@TECHNION.BITNET (Ephraim Silverberg)
elsie!ada@ncifcrf.gov (Arthur David Olson)
mtqua!elb@att.att.com (Ellen Bart)
jjc@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (Jeffrey J.B. Carpenter)
cals@cals01.Newport.RI.US (Charlie Sefranek)
cdr%amdcad%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Carl Rigney)
levin@BBN.COM (Joel B Levin)
cook%pinocchio%encore%husc6%harvard%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (Dale C. Cook)
spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford) 20
faigin@aerospace.aero.org (Daniel)
cbnewsd!truth@att.att.com
gryphon!greg@elroy.uucp (Greg Laskin)
evan%telly.onca%mailrus%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp
claris!wet!epsilon@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Eric P. Scott)
zifrony%TAURUS.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Doron Zifrony)
cik@l.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
chip%ateng.ateng.com (Chip Salzenberg)
rleroux1@uvicctr.UVic.ca (Roger Leroux)
randall@uvaarpa.virginia.edu (Randall Atkinson) 30
wisner@mica.berkeley.edu
fitz@wang.wang.com
md1y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew William Daly)
msw@unix.cip.pittsburg.edu (Matt S. Wartell)
gfeygin@godzilla.eecg.toronto.edu (Gennady Feygin)
Monica.Cellio@nl.cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence)
ckk@andrew.cmu.edu (Chris Koenigsberg)
YBMCU%CUNYVM.BITNET (Ben Yalow)
ames!mailrus!wsu-cs!eros!jjb@apple.com (J. Brewster) 40
david%indetech%pacbell%ames.uucp@elroy.uucp (David A. Kuder)
clewis%ecicrl@neat.ai.toronto (Chris Lewis)
bmaruti@wpi.wpi.edu (B. Maruti)
el10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward Lee Leventhal)
kdavis%lamc%pacbell%srhqla%jato.uucp@elroy.uucp (Ken Davis)
attctc!nansonp@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Paul Nanson)tjw@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (TJ Wood WA3VQJ) (08/26/89)
In article <578@uvaarpa.virginia.edu> randall@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU (Randall Atkinson) writes: >In article <19433@usc.edu> kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >Greg Woods has no obligation to anyone to issue any newgroup just >as no system is obliged to carry any group. And no one has an obligation to "obey" any of our "rules" or "guidelines". If I wanted to start a discussion of human rights in news.groups, I certainly could. If others joined me in this we could "flood" this (or any other) group and take it over (whatever that means). Of course, anyone else could forge cancel messages from me and "get even". But I thought that the whole point of this "gentlemen's agreement", was to avoid situations such as I'm describing. This group (soc.rights.human) received a very large "YES" vote. Misnamed or not, users voted for it. Unless vote fraud can be shown, the "gentlemen's agreement" should be honored. Or we should admit that only when things go "our way", the agreement counts. Terry J. Wood -- (UUCP) {decwrl!decvax!idis, allegra, bellcore, cadre}!pitt!cisunx!cisvms!tjw (BITNET) TJW@PITTVMS (or) TJW@PITTUNIX (Internet) tjw%vms.cis.pitt.edu@unix.cis.pitt.edu (CC-Net) CISVMS::TJW (or) 33801::TJW (or) CISUNX::tjw (or) 33802::tjw
woods@ncar.ucar.edu (Greg Woods) (08/26/89)
In article <19448@usc.edu> kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >Greg Woods IS obligated to create the group if it says that to create >the group one can send a message to that effect to "newgroup@ncar.ucar.edu" That address is not my personal mailbox, it goes to several people. The guidelines say that if your system administrator can't create the group, you can send a message to that address. NOWHERE does it say that anyone is obligated to respond to such a request. Nor does it say anywhere that newgroup messages have to come from a certain set of people. Honoring only certain people's newgroup messages is a decision made independently by certain site administrators and does NOT come out of the guidelines. >What is silly is that this objection was only voiced *after* I put the group >up for a vote. That is simply NOT TRUE. I posted my objection to placing this group in the soc hierarchy IMMEDIATELY after I first saw the original call for discussion. Dennis is just plain wrong here. >The inspiration for SRH was SCC (soc.culture.china). The political discussions in SCC are not appropriate to the original charter of the newsgroup. While there is nothing that can be done to stop them (short of creating a talk.politics.china) the fact that one newsgroup is currently carrying discussions not appropriate to its charter or the hierarchy it is in is really a rotten justification for creating ANOTHER misnamed group. >SCC also is carried world-wide, whereas "talk" groups tend to stay state-side. This is an even WORSE justification. The Europeans (and others) choose not to pay for talk groups for a REASON. Their wishes ought to be respected. Sneaking a group into the wrong hierarchy to get around someone's desire to not pay for political discussions is really a dirty trick. --Greg
kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) (08/26/89)
If Greg Woods voiced his objection about the group name right after he saw the name ... then he was one of the two who did so. I think my point here still stands. At the time I did not realize that Greg Woods carried as much "clout" as he did, so I took the suggestion as "one of many" Again I got about 50 notes... 2 notes for a talk group wasn't exactly a mandate for change. There was more objection to the original proposed name: soc.human-rights So I changed it soc.rights.human, when it came time for the vote. All the while, I still maintain that NO ONE POSTED ANY SUGGESTION ON HOW TO NAME THIS GROUP DURING THE DISCUSSION SECTION. I just got suggestions from e-mail. Anyway, I respect Greg Wood's right not to have his machine subscribe to the group... I just regret that he was not able to create it, if it was so important that either he or Spaf do so. All I can say is that I tried to follow the procedure to the letter. And we still had a mess of it. That sentence about sending a message to "newgroup@ncar.ucar.edu" should be changed ... it should be made clear that it is up the the vote-taker to find someone on his own to create the group after a successful vote. But there is hope ... groups usually take time to be accepted. This like any other. Thus-far, SRH has been pretty mature. And so I'm optimistic :-) dennis
kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) (08/26/89)
To clear this all up... Having "talked" to Greg Woods via e-mial... probably the best thing to get out of this whole thing is that Greg and Spaf are not the only ones who send legitimate newgroup creation messages. As the guidelines indicated, the vote-taker and/or the news administrator on the vote-taker's machine can also send such messages. The way to check whether or not the group is legitimate is to check the voting results that have to be posted at least 5 days beofre the newgroup command is set. If there was a vote, the group passed, and there was no objection to the results posted, then ... the newgroup command sent to create it is legitimate... whether or not Greg Woods or Spaf sent the message. Check the appropriate section of the new-newsgroup formation guide. Take care... dennis
Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (08/26/89)
In article <4121@ncar.ucar.edu>, woods@ncar (Greg Woods) writes: > In article <19448@usc.edu> kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: > >Greg Woods IS obligated to create the group if it says that to create > >the group one can send a message to that effect to "newgroup@ncar.ucar.edu" > > That address is not my personal mailbox, it goes to several people. The > guidelines say that if your system administrator can't create the group, > you can send a message to that address. NOWHERE does it say that anyone is > obligated to respond to such a request. Nor does it say anywhere that newgroup > messages have to come from a certain set of people. Honoring only certain > people's newgroup messages is a decision made independently by certain site > administrators and does NOT come out of the guidelines. Then that should be made very clear in the guidelines. > >The inspiration for SRH was SCC (soc.culture.china). > > The political discussions in SCC are not appropriate to the original charter > of the newsgroup. And how! > While there is nothing that can be done to stop them (short > of creating a talk.politics.china) Even that wouldn't stop them, of course. --Scott Scott Horne Undergraduate programmer, Yale CS Dept Facility horne@cs.Yale.edu ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne Home: 203 789-0877 SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 Work: 203 432-1260 Summer residence: 175 Dwight St, New Haven, CT Dare I speak for the amorphous gallimaufry of intellectual thought called Yale?
tjw@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (TJ Wood WA3VQJ) (08/27/89)
In article <4121@ncar.ucar.edu> woods@handies.UCAR.EDU (Greg Woods) writes: >In article <19448@usc.edu> kriz@skat.usc.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >>Greg Woods IS obligated to create the group if it says that to create >>the group one can send a message to that effect to "newgroup@ncar.ucar.edu" >you can send a message to that address. NOWHERE does it say that anyone is >obligated to respond to such a request. Nor does it say anywhere that newgroup >messages have to come from a certain set of people. Honoring only certain >people's newgroup messages is a decision made independently by certain site >administrators and does NOT come out of the guidelines. Perhaps the guidelines should contain language to indicate that certain sites are not the "seal of approval" of USENET, just in case someone has this mistaken belief. It seems to be the case, from what I've read, that some sysadmins believe that a group is only valid if it comes from Greg or Gene. While this is very convienent for the sysadmins (it means that they don't have to work as hard ;-), it is unfair to Greg and Gene to carry that burden. Terry J. Wood -- (UUCP) {decwrl!decvax!idis, allegra, bellcore, cadre}!pitt!cisunx!cisvms!tjw (BITNET) TJW@PITTVMS (or) TJW@PITTUNIX (Internet) tjw%vms.cis.pitt.edu@unix.cis.pitt.edu (CC-Net) CISVMS::TJW (or) 33801::TJW (or) CISUNX::tjw (or) 33802::tjw
clarke@acheron.uucp (Ed Clarke/10240000) (08/27/89)
From article <19297@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu>, by tjw@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (TJ Wood WA3VQJ):
- In article <4121@ncar.ucar.edu> woods@handies.UCAR.EDU (Greg Woods) writes:
- Perhaps the guidelines should contain language to indicate that certain
- sites are not the "seal of approval" of USENET, just in case someone has
- this mistaken belief. It seems to be the case, from what I've read,
- that some sysadmins believe that a group is only valid if it comes from
On the contrary, I don't care who creates the group. Feel free to create
comp.sex.wombats ( for discussion of computer assisted sex with wombats ) -
it'll be added here. At the end of the month, when Gene sends around his
list of valid newsgroups, it will also be deleted.
Validity is determined by your presence in the article(s) "List of Active
Newsgroups" (posted by Gene to news.lists every month). If the group
is not local, and is not in this list, but is in a group covered by the
list then it's invalid and gets deleted (locally). I do not send out an
offsite rmgroup but the group stops being fed to my downstream sites.
(Note: there are also lists of alternative [alt.*, bionet.* etc.] groups
that are posted along with the above article.)
To the best of my knowledge, only one group ( something about tcp/ip on
ENIAC machines ) has been rejected by Gene despite the vote. Since this
was an obvious attempt to be a pain in the ass, he's been forgiven for
omitting it. Send a note to spaf@purdue.EDU with the results of your
vote and a one liner (half a line) description of the group. If it doesn't
show up, then start complaining (publicly, in news.sysadmin).
--
Ed Clarke
acheron!clarketjw@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu (TJ Wood WA3VQJ) (08/28/89)
In article <1989Aug27.164129.5585@acheron.uucp> clarke@acheron.uucp (Ed Clarke/10240000) writes: >Validity is determined by your presence in the article(s) "List of Active >Newsgroups" (posted by Gene to news.lists every month). >Send a note to spaf@purdue.EDU with the results of your >vote and a one liner (half a line) description of the group. If it doesn't >show up, then start complaining (publicly, in news.sysadmin). This sounds like very good advice. Terry -- (UUCP) {decwrl!decvax!idis, allegra, bellcore, cadre}!pitt!cisunx!cisvms!tjw (BITNET) TJW@PITTVMS (or) TJW@PITTUNIX (Internet) tjw%vms.cis.pitt.edu@unix.cis.pitt.edu (CC-Net) CISVMS::TJW (or) 33801::TJW (or) CISUNX::tjw (or) 33802::tjw
mosley@peyote.cactus.org (Bob Mosley III) (08/28/89)
In article <1989Aug27.164129.5585@acheron.uucp>, clarke@acheron.uucp (Ed Clarke/10240000) writes: [hah! fooled you! :-):-)] > > To the best of my knowledge, only one group ( something about tcp/ip on > ENIAC machines ) has been rejected by Gene despite the vote. Since this > was an obvious attempt to be a pain in the ass, he's been forgiven for > omitting it. ...that is, by everyone except the talk.bizarrites that first proposed the group. There is still a dull rumble of Spafford flaming about the issue to this day. ...on a matter of clarification, how do alt. groups fit into the offical list criteria? It's been my understanding that these were essentially "optional" groups, and had to be requested by each site outside of the "Spaf list". OM
oleg@lcc.la.Locus.COM (Oleg Kiselev) (09/02/89)
In article <91@peyote.cactus.org> mosley@peyote.cactus.org (Bob Mosley III) writes: >...on a matter of clarification, how do alt. groups fit into the offical >list criteria? They don't. Neither do biz, bionet and a few other hierarchies whos distribution is independent of the remnants of the Backbone Kabal.