karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) (08/09/89)
In article <434@tp2.Waterloo.NCR.COM> howard@tp2.UUCP (Howard F. Steel) writes: >In article <sYrS8Ay00WB84go0hh@andrew.cmu.edu> dp22+@andrew.cmu.edu (David >Bruce Pinkus) writes: > > --- some stuff about a fabulous new franchise deleted ----- > >I was under the impression that the NET was not for business advertisement. >If it is, I have a number of friends who would like to advertise throughout >North America for free. Actually Howard, you may be wrong. A few months ago there was a big flap about people using the network resources (whether by posting, or reselling the stream that we call "Usenet") for their personal profit. Now, we all know that lots of sites resell the stream -- they ask others to share the costs of importing their feed(s). This includes Unido, UUNET, and hundred of other smaller systems. That, it would seem, is something that is considered "ok" by nearly everyone. Some people wanted to restrict the right of others to resell parts of the net that they claimed to be "theirs". I was part of a big flap about this, and gave up in disgust -- no one really cared, or so it seemed. Even though there is a distinct distribution for this kind of thing (biz.* groups), people didn't want to restrict the commerce and compilation copyrights to that area -- as long as their champion was doing the commercializing. Now it comes full circle. I have seen two nice commercial ads in the last week. This franchise deal was one, the other was some new hardware product (fax?) that was posted to some 7 or 8 groups. Me thinks that it is only a matter of a very small time period before the net becomes the next big advertising medium. All of you who said "oh, it's ok if <person x> copyrights and sells that group, and it's ok if <person y> posts ads for their book or whatever on the net, even though it's a commercial enterprise" will realize just what you have condoned. The snowball is rolling downhill, and gathering both size and speed. Personally I don't care anymore. If it becomes common practice, well, heck, we may as well post our ads to the net too, right? Looking at it from the point of view of a corporate marketing manager, this is one hell of a cheap way to get some publicity; 500,000 users across the world. Not bad for a few hundred bucks a month in telephone costs. -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 312 566-8911], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/10/89)
Karl: thar ya go again! The flap was about whether or not what came off the net, could be used for profit by the person responsible for putting it on the net in the first place. Of course, 'n' thousand people seem to enjoy the postings in questions. So, the idea of merely using that for a profit-making situation didn't add to net.overhead at all. Placing an ad on the net, though, is a bit different. First, it uses net resources for the sole profit of one person. And it is specifically against the charter of UseNet (or so it seems to me). Not so slight a difference. -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
" Maynard) (08/10/89)
In article <1989Aug9.140945.5371@ddsw1.MCS.COM> karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: >Some people wanted to restrict the right of others to resell parts of the >net that they claimed to be "theirs". Still refuse to recognize that rec.humor.funny is Brad Templeton's work? Or are you too busy hating? >I was part of a big flap about this, Actually, you and Matt Crawford _were_ the flap. >All of you who said "oh, it's ok if <person x> copyrights and sells that >group, and it's ok if <person y> posts ads for their book or whatever on >the net, even though it's a commercial enterprise" will realize just what >you have condoned. The snowball is rolling downhill, and gathering both >size and speed. *BOGUS CONCLUSION ALERT* *BOGUS CONCLUSION ALERT* *BOGUS CONCLUSION ALERT* Karl, you use a slippery slope argument without showing how the slope is slippery. Allowing Brad to protect and redistribute _his work_, in any form, does not necessaruly lead to the net as advertising medium. Would you prohibit Dave Barry from selling his column at a profit just because he published it here first? It's the same thing. >Personally I don't care anymore. If it becomes common practice, well, heck, >we may as well post our ads to the net too, right? I suspect that any site (including ddsw1) which does this outside of biz.* (which I commend you for supporting) would lose net access if done repeatedly. Seriously, though, why do you insist on continuing this vendetta? All you do is give everyone else the distinct impression of sour grapes. -- Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jay@splut.conmicro.com (eieio)| adequately be explained by stupidity. {attctc,bellcore}!texbell!splut!jay +---------------------------------------- "Rabid rerouters *love* to route mail to devnull@hell.org" - Brandon Allbery
karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) (08/10/89)
In article <937@utoday.UUCP> greenber@.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >Karl: thar ya go again! Start with ad hominen; that's in the spirit of the net ;-) >The flap was about whether or not what came off the net, could be used >for profit by the person responsible for putting it on the net in the >first place. Actually, the first flap (there were many) was about someone posting advertisements for a compilation, in print, some of which came off the net (and some of which did not). That was, if you remember, the commercial use which started all the shouting and noise. After this was tolerated we were witness to service bureau ads (Clarinet & IMM), a business franchise ad, and an ad for computer fax products. All in general distribution groups. >Of course, 'n' thousand people seem to enjoy the postings in questions. So, >the idea of merely using that for a profit-making situation didn't add >to net.overhead at all. > >Placing an ad on the net, though, is a bit different. First, it uses net >resources for the sole profit of one person. And it is specifically against >the charter of UseNet (or so it seems to me). There is no charter of Usenet, just some general agreements among the participants. This is not Fidonet; you cannot be "excommunicated" per-se. Why is it ok if one person puts an ad on the net, but not ok if a different person does it? Is it ok if a moderator of a group does it, but not ok if a normal user makes the posting? If I bury my advertisement in another posting so that it is not the only thing that is contained in that "message" is it ok? I fail to understand the fundamental difference between these activities, unless the "correctness" of the action is related to the person rather than the content! Please explain why it is ok for someone to sell a compilation of jokes using the net as a primary advertising medium, but it's not ok for me to sell computer equipment using the net as a primary advertising medium. >Not so slight a difference. No difference IMHO. I've already said that I don't mind the "IMM" and "Clarinet" ideas as such -- it's the increase in bandwidth through our machine to subsidize them, if any, that I would object to, and the posting of ads for the services to a dozen newsgroups. If there is no increase in our costs as a result of the operations, then I have no continuing objection. So far I can't see any increase in our costs related to these ventures -- thus I have no objection. I do object to a double standard when it comes to advertisements on the net. If it's ok to post commercial advertisements for things on the net, then it is. Otherwise, it's not. To suggest that it is ok to advertise pay-for jokebooks or Clarinet/IMM services, but not franchises to some business or computer equipment is absurd. Both generate profit only for the poster, contain no information of general worth to the net at large, are commercial, and add to the volume to the net traffic stream. If it's not ok to do these things, and I think the consensus at this point is that it is not, then those items should be posted to the "biz" groups, so that only those sites which consent to the traffic have to bear it. MCS does exactly that -- yes, we post commercial ads all the time. They go to the "biz" groups -- anyone who doesn't want to pay to receive them has no need to do so, and those who DO want this material specifically have to arrange for a feed -- by doing so consenting to the material contained inside. Rather than blast advertisements at the entire net, I did something constructive about the problem. "Biz" doesn't get a lot of traffic at present, but if it did that would be fine by me. In short, I don't object to commercialism on the net -- but I would like to see it in a place where people who DO object can avoid paying for its transmission. If the net as a whole allows jokebook ads, Clarinet ads, and IMM ads to be posted to rec, comp, misc, and alt groups without complaint then we have little room to holler when people post advertisements for their pet business projects, franchises, software or equipment in comp, misc, rec & alt. >Ross M. Greenberg >UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 >Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 >uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 312 566-8911], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/11/89)
In article <1989Aug10.151622.871@ddsw1.MCS.COM> karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes: > >Actually, the first flap (there were many) was about someone posting >advertisements for a compilation, in print, some of which came off the net >(and some of which did not). That was, if you remember, the commercial use >which started all the shouting and noise. > The only flap I seem to recall getting out of hand was over r.h.f & some of the comercial services. > >There is no charter of Usenet, just some general agreements among the >participants. This is not Fidonet; you cannot be "excommunicated" per-se. > No official charter: you're right. A certain tradition, a certain respect for other people, a certain respect for that which is generally accepted. I consider that a charter. >Why is it ok if one person puts an ad on the net, but not ok if a different >person does it? Depends on the ad, I suppose. "Dinnette For Sale" ads seem to go against the above mentioned charter. "Hey, I'm using this product of my effort to make a buck", doesn't. > I fail to understand the fundamental difference between these >activities, unless the "correctness" of the action is related to the person >rather than the content! If that is all the difference you're seeing, this is most certainly gonna be a fruitless discussion. We should take it to E-mail, rather than pester those about us.... -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
news@m2xenix.UUCP (news aka randy) (08/12/89)
In article <937@utoday.UUCP> greenber@.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >Karl: thar ya go again! > ... No. I believe Karl is correct. You (adverts in map entries), Brad (reselling), et al. are the nose of the camel. The rest of the camel will surely follow, much to the detriment of a public resource. Anarchy relies too much on the good will and sane actions of people. Ah well. -- uunet!tektronix ----\ sun!nosun --------- qiclab ---- m2xenix!news or news@m2xenix.uucp uunet!oresoft ------------------/ (Randy Bush)
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/13/89)
In article <339@m2xenix.UUCP> news@m2xenix.UUCP (news aka randy) writes: > >No. I believe Karl is correct. You (adverts in map entries), Brad >(reselling), et al. are the nose of the camel. The rest of the camel will >surely follow, much to the detriment of a public resource. (My Map Entry tells what `UNIX Today!' is, and mentions who can get it. It also indicates what we're looking for in news and writers) I've gotten three complaints on the map entry. I've gotten over 75 "thank you's" for giving people a way to get in touch with us. We (UNIX Today!) are on the net for a reason. We like to keep track of what's going on here. We like to let people know that our publication is a two way street, and that input from the readers is important to us -- by any channel. I can live with three complaints. (For those interested: u.usa.ny.3) -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton) (08/13/89)
People are, once again, missing the whole point of what USENET is. USENET is a network, run by site administrators by authority of machine owners, ostensibly for the benefit of the net readers on those machines. ***************************** There is only one criterion on Usenet. Do readers want it and are admins thus willing to pay to move it around for them? ***************************** That's it. THERE IS NO GOVERNING IDEOLOGY. Say that to yourself until you understand it. Usenet is not commercial or non-commercial. It is not public. It has no charter or official spirit. It has no rules, only conventions. It has *no* ideology, other than, of course, the ideology of having no ideology... :-) So cut the talk about all these things. Your discussions are pointless unless they answer the only real question. Anarchy is not about having an ideology. It's about letting everybody have their own. -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
denbeste@bbn.com (Steven Den Beste) (08/14/89)
In article <3992@looking.on.ca> brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton) writes: >USENET is a network, run by site administrators by authority of machine >owners, ostensibly for the benefit of the net readers on those machines. "USENET" is not a synonym for "Sites connected by UUCP". USENET includes much of the ARPANet, CSNet and Bitnet, not to mention many local area networks and some of the Milnet. The ARPANet is paid for by the U.S. Government, through the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. THEY have set a policy for the ARPANet: No commercial use. > > ***************************** > There is only one criterion on Usenet. Do readers want it and are > admins thus willing to pay to move it around for them? > ***************************** If DARPA pulls the plug on letting USENET pass through the ARPANet, you're going to be surprised by how much slower USENET works. > >That's it. THERE IS NO GOVERNING IDEOLOGY. The governing ideology is pronounced "DARPA". > Say that to yourself until >you understand it. DARPA. DARPA. DARPADARPADARPA. Sigh. Still sounds like the U.S. Government to me. [I suppose as a Canadian, you can say "There is no US Government", but I look a little silly doing so when they take a quarter of every paycheck I get. Maybe some of that pays for the ARPANet?] > Usenet is not commercial or non-commercial. The ARPANet is non-commercial by decree. > It is >not public. It has no charter or official spirit. It has no rules, only >conventions. ...except when it uses the ARPANet for communication. > It has *no* ideology, other than, of course, the ideology of >having no ideology... :-) I'm sorry, you're just plain wrong. What you are describing is only that part of USENET which relies only on UUCP. To most people, those parts are also "the wrong side of the tracks". Even those sites which don't directly connect to the ARPANet actually benefit from it, in the form of speedy news distribution. You can't simply discount it the way you are. [Need I say it? The above is me, not BBN.] Steven C. Den Beste || denbeste@bbn.com (ARPA/CSNET) BBN Communications Corp. || {apple, usc, husc6, csd4.milw.wisc.edu, 150 Cambridge Park Dr. || gatech, oliveb, mit-eddie, Cambridge, MA 02140 || ulowell}!bbn.com!denbeste (USENET)
amanda@intercon.uu.net (Amanda Walker) (08/15/89)
In article <44233@bbn.COM>, denbeste@bbn.com (Steven Den Beste) writes: [lots of stuff about ARPAnet] > I'm sorry, you're just plain wrong. And you're pretty out of date. A lot of Usenet news is propagated across NSFnet, but the NSF is not DARPA. ARPAnet is quickly ceasing to exist... The folks at the NSF have said (I don't remember the exact quote) "go ahead and use the bandwidth for News. We'll make more..." This isn't to say you don't have a point, but you might want to bone up a little on NSFnet, MILNET, and the plans for the National Research Internet before pontificating... -- Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation amanda@intercon.uu.net | ...!uunet!intercon!amanda "It can hardly be a coincidence that no language on earth has ever produced the expression 'As pretty as an airport.'" --Douglas Adams
bob@tinman.cis.ohio-state.edu (Bob Sutterfield) (08/15/89)
In article <44233@bbn.COM> denbeste@bbn.com (Steven Den Beste) writes:
If DARPA pulls the plug on letting USENET pass through the ARPANet,
you're going to be surprised by how much slower USENET works.
I suspect that wouldn't have much effect. On the other hand, if NSF
were to announce a non-news policy on networks it funds, I'd expect a
much more drastic fallout. But NSF is resisting making such moves,
considering (as do each of the system administrators on the Usenet)
the benefits to outweigh the costs. This is A Good Thing all around.noel@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (N. Del More) (08/15/89)
In article <943@utoday.UUCP> greenber@.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >(My Map Entry tells what `UNIX Today!' is, and mentions who can get it. > It also indicates what we're looking for in news and writers) > >I've gotten three complaints on the map entry. I've gotten over 75 >"thank you's" for giving people a way to get in touch with us. > >We (UNIX Today!) are on the net for a reason. We like to keep track of >what's going on here. We like to let people know that our publication is >a two way street, and that input from the readers is important to us -- by >any channel. The number of complaints vs. thankies aside, what exactly is the difference? You are a commercial profit making organization advertising your publication. I don't personally object to your map, but it sounds to me that your kind of caught with your pants down and trying to justify it. A commercial advertisement IS a commercial advertisement regardless of its intended purpose. And least I forget, Unix Today! is a controlled publication, that is, the more qualified subscribers you have the more you charge your advertisers and the more income generated. Correct? Heck, I'd put it in the maps too. Great way to get hold of a large audience of Unix professionals B-) Have a good one! Noel -- Noel B. Del More | decvax!ubbs-nh!noel 17 Meredith Drive | noel@ubbs-nh.mv.com Nashua, New Hampshire 03063 | It's unix me son! `taint spozed tah make cents
amanda@intercon.uu.net (Amanda Walker) (08/15/89)
In article <1363@intercon.UUCP>, I said: > And you're pretty out of date. A lot of Usenet news is propagated across > NSFnet, but the NSF is not DARPA. ARPAnet is quickly ceasing to exist... > > The folks at the NSF have said (I don't remember the exact quote) "go ahead > and use the bandwidth for News. We'll make more..." > > This isn't to say you don't have a point, but you might want to bone up > a little on NSFnet, MILNET, and the plans for the National Research Internet > before pontificating... I thought I'd clarify my statement, since I've gotten a couple of objections to it in email... I was responding to the (fairly condescending) claim that amounted to "if the DARPA pulls the plug, you'll be sorry." The Internet != ARPAnet. As I said in the last paragraph, I think that Steven had a point, but that he expressed it poorly. Some of the ground rules have changed. Some of them haven't, but pretending that everything is just like it was a decade ago is (ahem) generally not a great way to sound knowledgeable... Sorry for any confusion. -- Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation -- amanda@intercon.uu.net | ...!uunet!intercon!amanda
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/16/89)
In article <391@ubbs-nh.MV.COM> noel@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (N. Del More) writes: > >The number of complaints vs. thankies aside, what exactly is the >difference? You are a commercial profit making organization advertising >your publication. > Not advertising, to me. Mentioning we exist, offering our book to readers, etc. My job isn;t to increase circulation. My job is to review product, technically review the material we print, etc. We have a circ of something like 50K. The coupla hundred people who have sent me mail saying "Subscribe Me!" doesn't affect our circ numbers substantially. Certainly not enough to influence our ad rates. But it sure makes it easier for people to get the book if there slipped through the circ department's lists... >I don't personally object to your map, but it sounds to me that your kind >of caught with your pants down and trying to justify it. > I don't see it that way. If I did, it wouldn't have been posted. >A commercial advertisement IS a commercial advertisement regardless of >its intended purpose. > Oy! I'm having the same conversation in E-mail with someone else. I consider the posting a service -- and something to make *my* job easier, too. When you post a question to the net for the advantage of your company, I guess you use the net for commercial advantage, too. And, I don't see my posting as a commercial announcement. >And least I forget, Unix Today! is a controlled publication, that is, the >more qualified subscribers you have the more you charge your advertisers >and the more income generated. Correct? > As stated above, the number of people asking for subs doesn't really affect our ad rate. And, since I'm editorial, not sales, I have nothing to do with that stuff. We make sure to keep sales and editorial separate. Credibility is the only thing we have to offer our readers. Once the two of the extremes meet, you get a "how do we please the advertisers?" publication. Ick! Pitiou! Of course, my own ego (small as it is! :-) ) wouldn't mind having a bunch more readers. And I am pretty proud of UNIX Today! >Heck, I'd put it in the maps too. Great way to get hold of a large >audience of Unix professionals B-) > Even better is to discuss it in this news group! :-) -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
dfickes@expert.com (David Fickes) (08/17/89)
>Ross says: >Not advertising, to me. Mentioning we exist, offering our book to >readers, etc. I actually put this question to quite a few people around here... and the answer was ... "what creeps" to "sounds pathetic to me" ... Just an informal survey mind you. We thought of similar announcements but vetoed the idea on the "commercial use clause." Additionally, complaints regarding any postings that originate from here are handled personally by me and I would consider it grounds for termination in an extreme case. As publishers, we are in the information business but also need to hold ourselves to high levels of ethics, propriety and public image. Controlled circulation or not (we are as well). I'd simply stick to comp.newprod... if people really want to find you, they will find a way. - david Publisher -- =================================================================== David K. Fickes dfickes@expert.com Sun Expert Magazine uunet!expert!dfickes 1330 Beacon Street (800) 825-7001
sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) (08/23/89)
<1989Aug9.140945.5371@ddsw1.MCS.COM> <937@utoday.UUCP> <339@m2xenix.UUCP> <943@utoday.UUCP> <391@ubbs-nh.MV.COM> <945@utoday.UUCP> <1989Aug17.012249.2122@expert.com> Sender: Reply-To: sparks@corpane.UUCP (John Sparks) Followup-To: Distribution: na Organization: Corpane Industries, Inc. Keywords: Commerce, commercial, business, etc In article <1989Aug17.012249.2122@expert.com> dfickes@expert.UUCP (David Fickes) writes: >>Ross says: >>Not advertising, to me. Mentioning we exist, offering our book to >>readers, etc. > >I actually put this question to quite a few people around >here... and the answer was ... "what creeps" to "sounds pathetic >to me" ... Just an informal survey mind you. > >We thought of similar announcements but vetoed the idea on >the "commercial use clause." Additionally, complaints regarding >any postings that originate from here are handled personally >by me and I would consider it grounds for termination in an >extreme case. > >-- >=================================================================== >David K. Fickes dfickes@expert.com >Sun Expert Magazine uunet!expert!dfickes >1330 Beacon Street (800) 825-7001 Situation: Ross put subscription information about Unix Today in their map. Is accused of Advertizing. David from Sun Expert systems says that it is in bad taste and anyone from his company who did so will have to deal with him. He then goes on to post the address and phone number of his magazine in his .signature WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE????? I don't see either as advertizing. I see advertizing as a posting that tries to sell you something not as a map entry (which not many people read anyway, other than sysadmins) or as a phone number and address in a .signature (I have one in my .signature also for our BBS) Dave if you feel that it is advertizing, then you are going to either have to take your phone number and address out of your .signature or you are going to have to 'terminate' yourself. -- John Sparks | {rutgers|uunet}!ukma!corpane!sparks | D.I.S.K. 24hrs 1200bps ||||||||||||||| sparks@corpane.UUCP | 502/968-5401 thru -5406 A virtuous life is its own punishment.
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/24/89)
Don;t know what all the fuss is about in any case: all the subscription information I posted in our map entry never made it into u.usa.ny.3. Our offer to be somebody's newsfeed, though, did make it into the censored map entry... -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (08/24/89)
Who reads comp.mail.maps anyway (other than folks looking for Copyright
notices :->)?
--
Peter da Silva, *NIX support guy @ Ferranti International Controls Corporation.
Biz: peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180. Fun: peter@sugar.hackercorp.com. `-_-'
"export ENV='${Envfile[(_$-=1)+(_=0)-(_$-!=_${-%%*i*})]}'" -- Tom Neff 'U`
"I didn't know that ksh had a built-in APL interpreter!" -- Steve J. Friedlgreenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/26/89)
In article <5862@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >Who reads comp.mail.maps anyway (other than folks looking for Copyright >notices :->)? Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (08/28/89)
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and >forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) Idiot. I doubt I'll ever read the rag after reading this. >Ross M. Greenberg >UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 >Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 >uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 -- richard one of the SA's you're trying to reach so desperately -- * Truth : the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of * * destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by * * all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death. * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho *
mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack) (08/29/89)
In article <2006@avsd.UUCP> childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: >greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > >>Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and >>forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) > >Idiot. I doubt I'll ever read the rag after reading this. This is why using smileys in postings is fruitless. People with no sense of humor simply ignore them and flame anyway. Or perhaps they have a genetic defect that physically prevents them from seeing the smileys. Sad. -- Dave Mack
Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (08/29/89)
In article <949@utoday.UUCP>, greenber@utoday (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > In article <5862@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: > >Who reads comp.mail.maps anyway (other than folks looking for Copyright > >notices :->)? > > Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and > forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) This attitude is quite in line with my opinion of your magazine. --Scott Scott Horne Undergraduate programmer, Yale CS Dept Facility horne@cs.Yale.edu ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne Home: 203 789-0877 SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 Work: 203 432-1260 Summer residence: 175 Dwight St, New Haven, CT Dare I speak for the amorphous gallimaufry of intellectual thought called Yale?
bud@rescon.UUCP (Alex Batyi) (08/29/89)
In article <949@utoday.UUCP>, greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and > forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) Brilliant! They should all qualify for free subscriptions as with the various trade mags, yes? Gimme two! 8-} -- AJB +1 215 788 5957 [...!bpa!]alba2l!bud Quote:"If you lose your memory, forget it!" bud@alba2l.UUCP Alba Tool Co., Inc. 933 Washington Ave. Croydon, PA 19020 --=={ Manufacturer of single and multi-spindle screw machine products. }==--
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/29/89)
In article <2006@avsd.UUCP> childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: > >Idiot. I doubt I'll ever read the rag after reading this. > > >-- richard one of the SA's you're trying to reach so desperately Oh well. That's it for me. I might as well quit immediately. Richard: it was a joke! -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/29/89)
In article <70871@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: > >This attitude is quite in line with my opinion of your magazine. > > >Scott Horne Undergraduate programmer, Yale CS Dept Facility ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's quite alright, Scott. I'll be sure to have your name striken from our mailing list, if you like. No problem at all. We'll miss you, I'm sure. -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (08/29/89)
mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack) writes: >In article <2006@avsd.UUCP> childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: >>greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >>>Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and >>>forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) >>Idiot. I doubt I'll ever read the rag after reading this. >This is why using smileys in postings is fruitless. People with no >sense of humor simply ignore them and flame anyway. Or perhaps they >have a genetic defect that physically prevents them from >seeing the smileys. Sad. Well, I've explained this to two people this morning, I guess I can make it three easily enough. -=*=- < extracted from private communication with Brad Templeton w/o permission > "Just because you didn't like his joke about pretending to go through the maps for subscription entries doesn't mean you have to tell the world that you won't read his magazine." I've already explained this to one person, so I've got it down pat. He's in a position of high visibility, and thus concomitant responsibility. It is a position that he has deliberately cultivated. I have been so bold as to hold him responsible for his words, in his position. In playing to the masses, he has lost his real audience. At least some of them. All I did was say so. "Besides, not reading the magazine because you don't like a joke from one of the writers is a bit extreme, don't you think?" Whoa. First it's "his magazine", now he's just "one of the writers". -=*=- I am valued by my employers for my ability to accept responsibility, not for my ability to evade it. I value and respect myself for the same reason. This is not a missing sense of humor, it is a refusal to laugh at something that is irresponsible behavior posing as humor. If you are too dense to make the distinction between the two without aid, this is indeed sad. >Dave Mack -- richard -- * Truth : the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of * * destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by * * all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death. * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho *
Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (08/29/89)
In article <951@utoday.UUCP>, greenber@utoday (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > In article <2006@avsd.UUCP> childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: > > Oh well. That's it for me. I might as well quit immediately. > > Richard: it was a joke! Not a funny one, though, particularly in view of the controversy over the use of the maps (and *your* use of the maps). --Scott Scott Horne Undergraduate programmer, Yale CS Dept Facility horne@cs.Yale.edu ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne Home: 203 789-0877 SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 Work: 203 432-1260 Summer residence: 175 Dwight St, New Haven, CT Dare I speak for the amorphous gallimaufry of intellectual thought called Yale?
peter@ontmoh.UUCP (Peter Renzland) (08/30/89)
From article <2016@avsd.UUCP>, by childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers): ... >>>greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > >>>>Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and >>>>forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) ... >>>Idiot. I doubt I'll ever read the rag after reading this. [ ... (apologia) ... ] ... What a clever idea! I would love to get a concise e-mail message from a mag such as Unix Today, where all I have to do is r(eply) and say yes please or no thanks. (I know it was a joke, but I do like the thought.) (If I could only find that ancient invitation to subscribe to UT! .. and then a pen .. and then an envelope .. and then a stamp (how much are stamps these days?) .. and then a mailbox ... well, I guess I'll just have to suffer without.) -- Peter Renzland @ Ontario Ministry of Health 416/964-9141 peter@ontmoh.UUCP /usr/group/cdn Director /* ugc office: 259-8122 usrgroup@utgpu */
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/30/89)
In article <70973@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: >> >> Richard: it was a joke! > >Not a funny one, though, particularly in view of the controversy over the use >of the maps (and *your* use of the maps). > Lighten up, huh? Without the ongoing discussion over the use of the maps, it wouldn't have any element of humor. As it is, I'm thinking of submitting this whole thread to r.h.f... -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/30/89)
In article <2016@avsd.UUCP> childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: >mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack) writes: > > [referring to me, I think -- rmg] > >He's in a position of high visibility, and thus concomitant responsibility. > >It is a position that he has deliberately cultivated. > Well, this is certainly giving me higher visibility. Thank you. I know what my responsibilities are. I get a feeling I know them better than you might. >I have been so bold as to hold him responsible for his words, in his position. >In playing to the masses, he has lost his real audience. At least some of them. >All I did was say so. > I'm always responsible for my words and for my actions, Richard. But, I try not to take myself too seriously. To do so would make me a bit humorless, and (I think) unable to appreciate the fun things in life. Did I lose some of our readers? I really don't think so. Heck, I'm sure that I lose readers with each article we run. And we gain some. When I review a product and say "What a piece of overpriced crud!", I'm sure I piss off some people. That's part of my job, to call 'em as I see 'em. Of course, that has nothing to do with my posting a little (*very* little) joke. >"Besides, not reading the magazine because you don't like a joke from > one of the writers is a bit extreme, don't you think?" > >Whoa. First it's "his magazine", now he's just "one of the writers". > Hey, I wouldn't mind taking credit for the whole magazine. I'm that proud of it (and wait until you see what's gonna be happening to it in the not so distant future!). But I can't. We have some really fine writers and most of our reporters come from a newspaper criminal reporting background (Hmmmm. Does this say anything about the UNIX marketplace, I wonder? :-) [Aside to all: THIS IS A JOKE!]). We're pretty good with the news. My responsibilities there, as Review Editor, should be obvious. Tell ya what: if you're pissed off at my posting(s), simply tear the section I'm responsible for out of the magazine and feed it to your gerbil or something? > >I am valued by my employers for my ability to accept responsibility, not for >my ability to evade it. I value and respect myself for the same reason. This >is not a missing sense of humor, it is a refusal to laugh at something that >is irresponsible behavior posing as humor. If you are too dense to make the >distinction between the two without aid, this is indeed sad. > Well, that's very nice indeed. I have to question a person's ability to even recognize responsibility when they can't recognize a meaningless little posting. Brad (if you're reading this), could you please send my friend here a copy of your book? I'll pay for it. Use a highlighter on the more subtle jokes, ok? -- Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) (08/30/89)
In article <956@utoday.UUCP> greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >Well, that's very nice indeed. I have to question a person's ability >to even recognize responsibility when they can't recognize a meaningless >little posting. Brad (if you're reading this), could you please send >my friend here a copy of your book? I'll pay for it. Use a highlighter >on the more subtle jokes, ok? I figured there was some sort of association between you and Brad. He leapt to your defense so _quickly_. I asked him just that question last night. I'll be interested in seeing his reply. And to think that I thought I was being paranoid in assuming that there was a connection !! _Very_ interesting. The commercialization of the Usenet continues, unheralded, covert, but intent upon seizing this valuable real estate no matter what is required. >Ross M. Greenberg >UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 >Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 >uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 -- richard a non-commercial kind of guy -- * Truth : the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of * * destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by * * all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death. * * ..{amdahl|decwrl|octopus|pyramid|ucbvax}!avsd.UUCP!childers@tycho *
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/30/89)
>I'd love to get a concise e-mail msg from a mag such as UNIX Today!....
Well, now you can. See the last line of my .sig* file, below.
Ross
Ross M. Greenberg
UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016
Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438
uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212
To subscribe, send mail to circ@utoday with "Subject: Request"greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/30/89)
In article <181@rescon.UUCP> bud@rescon.UUCP (Alex Batyi) writes: >> Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and >> forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) > >Brilliant! They should all qualify for free subscriptions as >with the various trade mags, yes? Gimme two! 8-} >-- Sorry, only one per customer, Alex. See my .sig below... Ross Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 To subscribe, send mail to circ@utoday with "Subject: Request"
Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (08/31/89)
In article <955@utoday.UUCP>, greenber@utoday (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > In article <70973@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: > >> > >> Richard: it was a joke! > > > >Not a funny one, though, particularly in view of the controversy over the use > >of the maps (and *your* use of the maps). > > Lighten up, huh? Without the ongoing discussion over the use of the maps, > it wouldn't have any element of humor. For you not to remember--or, worse, intentionally to ignore--all of the controversy over your use of the maps when posting that "joke" is at best irresponsible. > As it is, I'm thinking of submitting this whole thread to r.h.f... Do. Correspondence with Brad Templeton, the moderator of `rec.humor.funny', leads me to believe that he would welcome your "humour". By the way, I hope you were being serious when you underscored "Undergraduate" in my signature and told the net that you'd remove me from your magazine's mailing list. Even though I'm "only" an undergraduate, I'm on all sorts of junk-mail lists, including your magazine's. Do be so kind as to keep your ads out of this undergraduate's mailbox. --Scott Scott Horne Undergraduate programmer, Yale CS Dept Facility horne@cs.Yale.edu ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne Home: 203 789-0877 SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 Work: 203 432-1260 Summer residence: 175 Dwight St, New Haven, CT Dare I speak for the amorphous gallimaufry of intellectual thought called Yale?
Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) (08/31/89)
In article <956@utoday.UUCP>, greenber@utoday (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > In article <2016@avsd.UUCP> childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: > >mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack) writes: > > When I review a product and say "What a piece of overpriced crud!", Quite frankly, that's my view of your magazine. (No smiley here, please note.) > Of course, that has nothing to do with my posting a little > (*very* little) joke. That it was a "*very* little" joke is the reason that we flamed you. > >"Besides, not reading the magazine because you don't like a joke from > > one of the writers is a bit extreme, don't you think?" > > > >Whoa. First it's "his magazine", now he's just "one of the writers". > > Hey, I wouldn't mind taking credit for the whole magazine. Shall I take that as an anti-disclaimer: "I *do* speak for my employer"? [still more advertising hype deleted] > > My responsibilities there, as Review Editor, should be obvious. Tell ya > what: if you're pissed off at my posting(s), simply tear the section > I'm responsible for out of the magazine and feed it to your gerbil > or something? I'll call the ASPCA if he does. :-) > >I am valued by my employers for my ability to accept responsibility, not for > >my ability to evade it. I value and respect myself for the same reason. This > >is not a missing sense of humor, it is a refusal to laugh at something that > >is irresponsible behavior posing as humor. If you are too dense to make the > >distinction between the two without aid, this is indeed sad. > > Well, that's very nice indeed. I have to question a person's ability > to even recognize responsibility when they can't recognize a meaningless > little posting. I have to question an editor's competence when he splits infinitives and uses incorrect pronouns. :-) (OK, I'll admit that that was somewhat unfair. Follow-ups to `alt.flame', which I don't read.) You admit that your posting was meaningless. Good. But if it was meaningless, why did you post it? > Brad (if you're reading this), could you please send > my friend here a copy of your book? I'll pay for it. Use a highlighter > on the more subtle jokes, ok? And a crayon on the unfunny ones. :-) --Scott Scott Horne Undergraduate programmer, Yale CS Dept Facility horne@cs.Yale.edu ...!{harvard,cmcl2,decvax}!yale!horne Home: 203 789-0877 SnailMail: Box 7196 Yale Station, New Haven, CT 06520 Work: 203 432-1260 Summer residence: 175 Dwight St, New Haven, CT Dare I speak for the amorphous gallimaufry of intellectual thought called Yale?
mem@zinn.MV.COM (Mark E. Mallett) (08/31/89)
In article <955@utoday.UUCP> greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >As it is, I'm thinking of submitting this whole thread to r.h.f... Good idea, Ross! Your whole battle with the witless (in both senses of the word) has tickled me pink... Now go back and be responsible, boy... and don't forget to tell us all about it. :-) -mm- -- Mark E. Mallett Zinn Computer Co/ PO Box 4188/ Manchester NH/ 03103 Bus. Phone: 603 645 5069 Home: 603 424 8129 BIX: mmallett uucp: mem@zinn.MV.COM ( ...{decvax|elrond|harvard}!zinn!mem ) Northern MA and Southern NH consultants: Ask (in mail!) about MV.COM
tneff@bfmny0.UUCP (Tom Neff) (08/31/89)
I hate to be a wet blanket but could the three or four antagonists on this "Franchise Opportunity" thing just send each other mail about it? It's clogging up news.admin. -- "We walked on the moon -- (( Tom Neff you be polite" )) tneff@bfmny0.UU.NET
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/31/89)
First off, Richard, I want to thank you for including my signature line(s) in each of your postings. Aside from my stock in AT&T appreciating [it] too, I'm gonna see if our advertising department can give you a bonus as an ad rep. In article <2020@avsd.UUCP> childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes: > >I figured there was some sort of association between you and Brad. He leapt >to your defense so _quickly_. > Brad: he found us out! I thought that we were never supposed to tell each other that we were twins. You're the evil one, of course. Actually, Richard, Brad and I have joined the ultra-secret Commercial BackBone Cabal. Our intent is to put a meter on *your* terminal and charge *you* each time you access the net. In the interim, until we get the kinks worked out on the meter, please send $1,324 in small unmarked bills to me at the below address. Oh. RICHARD: THAT WAS A JOKE. > >_Very_ interesting. The commercialization of the Usenet continues, unheralded, >covert, but intent upon seizing this valuable real estate no matter what is >required. > Who was that masked man, anyway? Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 To subscribe, send mail to circ@utoday with "Subject: Request"
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (08/31/89)
In article <71116@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne) writes: > >By the way, I hope you were being serious when you underscored "Undergraduate" >in my signature and told the net that you'd remove me from your magazine's >mailing list. Even though I'm "only" an undergraduate, I'm on all sorts of >junk-mail lists, including your magazine's. Do be so kind as to keep your >ads out of this undergraduate's mailbox. > You bet. No problem. Glad to be of service. Thanks for shopping here. Have a nice day.
jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) (09/02/89)
In article <960@utoday.UUCP> greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >> I'd love to get a concise e-mail msg from a mag such as UNIX >> Today!.... > > Well, now you can. See the last line of my .sig* file, below. > >Ross M. Greenberg >UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 >Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 >uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 Speaking of mail, I am curious why UNIX TODAY doesn't have any "letters" section. There are some people pretty fired up about the recent "UNIX Workstation" article that compared obsolete versions of ISC Unix against the latest Intel (Bell) offering. Are your articles really just adds? Can't your advertisers tolerate ANY feedback? -- John E Van Deusen III, PO Box 9283, Boise, ID 83707, (208) 343-1865 uunet!visdc!jiii
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (09/03/89)
In article <630@visdc.UUCP> jiii@visdc.UUCP (John E Van Deusen III) writes: > >Speaking of mail, I am curious why UNIX TODAY doesn't have any "letters" >section. There are some people pretty fired up about the recent "UNIX >Workstation" article that compared obsolete versions of ISC Unix against >the latest Intel (Bell) offering. Are your articles really just adds? >Can't your advertisers tolerate ANY feedback? First off, I think it might be best for me to get a biz group set up for this kind of stuff: it really doesn't belong here. But, anyway.... We have a letters section, but we need to get letters in order to print 'em. The mailbox letters@utoday is aliased directly over to my boss, Mike Azzara (The Buck Stops there: he's the editor. mikea@utoday) -- and he'll print the letters he gets (that fit, both in length and content, naturally: make 'em short and to the point). As for the review of the MPE. Yeah, I think *I* blew it on that one. I posted a pretty long reply addressing all that stuff in comp.unix.i386, coming to a spool directory near you soon. Speaking for 90% of the pubs I know (I freelance for a number of pubs), I can tell you that advertising and editorial *are* separate. What we run in UNIX Today! has had my publisher (the guy responsible for getting the ad dollars in) running down to me a coupla times. However, if he insists on something, I quit. So would everybody else on the editorial side of things. Here's how *I* use the ads (not just in UNIX Today! but in those other UNIX magazines -- can't remember their names right now.. :-) ). I look through the book, through the ads, through the New Products section. From there, I get ideas on what to review. It is sad, but true, that non-advertisers are not noticed as much. Simply because they're not as present as advertisers are. The UNIX comunity is still a bit disjointed, there is no one source of information about new products. Not yet, that is: that's our intent. Getting this kinda stuff out of this newsgroup, 'cause it doesn't belong here, I look forward to receiving mail telling us where we done good, and where we done bad. Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 To subscribe, send mail to circ@utoday with "Subject: Request"
noel@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (N. Del More) (09/04/89)
In article <967@utoday.UUCP> greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: >First off, I think it might be best for me to get a biz group set up >for this kind of stuff: it really doesn't belong here. > >Getting this kinda stuff out of this newsgroup, 'cause it doesn't belong >here, I look forward to receiving mail telling us where we done good, and >where we done bad. Now why in the heck doesn't it belong here? Sounds to me like this was a discussion about a review published in your rag, and your comments concerning the editorial policy etc. IMHO, this discussion IS appropriate for this and other "regular" newgroups unlike some of your other previous postings. Noel
allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) (09/04/89)
As quoted from <70871@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> by Horne-Scott@cs.yale.edu (Scott Horne): +--------------- | In article <949@utoday.UUCP>, greenber@utoday (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: | > In article <5862@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: | > >Who reads comp.mail.maps anyway (other than folks looking for Copyright | > >notices :->)? | > | > Well, to tell ya the truth, I was gonna go through the map entries and | > forward the SA's over to our circ department! :-) | | This attitude is quite in line with my opinion of your magazine. +--------------- Do *any* of the idiots reading this network know what a ":-)" means????? ++an annoyed Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery, moderator of comp.sources.misc allbery@NCoast.ORG uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery ncoast!allbery@hal.cwru.edu "Why do trans-atlantic transfers take so long?" "Electrons don't swim very fast." -john@minster.york.ac.uk and whh@PacBell.COM
bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) (09/04/89)
In article <119@ubbs-nh.MV.COM> noel@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (N. Del More) writes: >In article <967@utoday.UUCP> greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: RMG>>First off, I think it might be best for me to get a biz group set up RMG>>for this kind of stuff: it really doesn't belong here. RMG>>Getting this kinda stuff out of this newsgroup, 'cause it doesn't belong RMG>>here, I look forward to receiving mail telling us where we done good, and RMG>>where we done bad. NDM>Now why in the heck doesn't it belong here? Sounds to me like this was a NDM>discussion about a review published in your rag, and your comments NDM>concerning the editorial policy etc. NDM>IMHO, this discussion IS appropriate for this and other "regular" NDM>newgroups unlike some of your other previous postings. Having just waded through more articles that "don't belong" than those that "do belong", I just gotta drag out the tattered old sermon, sorry... This news group, news.admin is for and about administration of the news network and system. That's what the description has said for as long as I can remember. The content seldom follows the description but the purpose remains the same. Nope, Ross is correct, that discussion _doesn't_ belong in news.admin, but since nobody seems to pay any attention to that, why bitch? From time to time there *is* something posted to this group that pertains to news administration. Those of us who read the group for that purpose must continue to read the inappropriate stuff in order to harvest the occaisional pearl. Something like having to kiss a lot of frogs... Soreheads like me just *have* to bitch about it from time to time in hopes of getting the pertinent stuff closer together. Nope Mr. Moore, you're mistaken. Your article actually invites the dilution I'm complaining about. -- Bill Kennedy usenet {attctc,att,cs.utexas.edu,sun!daver}!ssbn!bill internet bill@ssbn.WLK.COM or attmail!ssbn!bill
greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (09/05/89)
In article <119@ubbs-nh.MV.COM> noel@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (N. Del More) writes: > >Now why in the heck doesn't it belong here? Sounds to me like this was a >discussion about a review published in your rag, and your comments >concerning the editorial policy etc. > "Rag", eh? :-) These groups are for discussions of UseNet news, not the real kind! :-) Ross Ross M. Greenberg UNIX TODAY! 594 Third Avenue New York New York 10016 Review Editor Voice:(212)-889-6431 BBS:(212)-889-6438 uunet!utoday!greenber BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 To subscribe, send mail to circ@utoday with "Subject: Request"
mark@promark.UUCP (Mark J. DeFilippis) (09/05/89)
In article <967@utoday.UUCP>, greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > > Here's how *I* use the ads (not just in UNIX Today! but in those other > UNIX magazines -- can't remember their names right now.. :-) ). I look They are UNIX WORLD AND UNIX REVIEW. They all look alike. At the University I usually get one of the three stuffed in my mailbox in the Mathematics and Computer Science Department. I admit I never noticed your articles, but then again I am at least as busy as most of the people on this net. > > Getting this kinda stuff out of this newsgroup, 'cause it doesn't belong > here, I look forward to receiving mail telling us where we done good, and > where we done bad. > Oh, now we are supposed to provide you with marketing data. Hum... like those reader response cards in the back of the mags. The sheer amount of crap from you that I have to cat > /dev/null is really pissing me off. And now multiple newsgroups. Great! Just like using an overpowered CB on channel 18. We are spashing channel 17 and 19! I am sure everyone "tuned in to those channels" is as tickled pink about it as I am. I said I was an opinionated guy. :-). I guess human nature is what it is. -- Adelphi University, Garden City, NY 11530 (516) 663-1170 Department of Mathematics and Computer Science markd@adelphi.UUCP or mark@promark.UUCP UUCP: ...philabs!sbcs!bnlux0!adelphi!markd
edhew@xenitec.uucp (Ed Hew) (09/06/89)
In article <620438322.3396@ontmoh.UUCP> peter@ontmoh.UUCP (Peter Renzland) writes: >From article <2016@avsd.UUCP>, by childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers): >... >What a clever idea! I would love to get a concise e-mail message from >a mag such as Unix Today, where all I have to do is r(eply) and say >yes please or no thanks. (I know it was a joke, but I do like the thought.) > >(If I could only find that ancient invitation to subscribe to UT! .. and then >a pen .. and then an envelope .. and then a stamp (how much are stamps these >days?) .. and then a mailbox ... well, I guess I'll just have to suffer >without.) mailbox? mailbox? oh yeah! I've got a couple of dozen of them, but I call them folders. :-) Oh, Peter, you mean those large anachronistic boxes at the corner of some streets (the ones I _don't_ drive by). Any idea what their real purpose in life is? I heard a rumour that they're really some kind of gov't make_work_project. [summary: yes, I agree.] >Peter Renzland @ Ontario Ministry of Health 416/964-9141 peter@ontmoh.UUCP Ed. A. Hew Authorized Technical Trainer Xeni/Con Corporation work: edhew@xenicon.uucp -or- ..!{uunet!}utai!lsuc!xenicon!edhew ->home: edhew@xenitec.uucp -or- ..!{uunet!}watmath!xenitec!edhew # This posting has absolutely nothing to do with what I do for a living.
lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) (09/07/89)
Does anyone besides me think utoday is due for an emailing of the
gnuemacs lisp manual? Maybe someone a bit closer to them than me
would do so and save the rest of us our sanity.
--
Lyndon Nerenberg VE6BBM / Computing Services / Athabasca University
{alberta,decwrl,lsuc}!atha!lyndon || lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA
CTIX-USERS has moved to: ctix-users[-request]@cs.AthabascaU.CAgreenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) (09/07/89)
In article <1085@aurora.AthabascaU.CA> lyndon@cs.AthabascaU.CA (Lyndon Nerenberg) writes: > >Does anyone besides me think utoday is due for an emailing of the >gnuemacs lisp manual? Maybe someone a bit closer to them than me >would do so and save the rest of us our sanity. > Maybe I'm biased, Lyndon, but I feel that would be a great waste of net resources. Besides: since we turn a profit in what we do, sending us something from GNU would probably make somebody angry. And we'd never want to make leftist pinko's angry, would we? :-) -- Ross M. Greenberg, Review Editor, UNIX Today! greenber@utoday.UUCP 594 Third Avenue, New York, New York, 10016 Voice:(212)-889-6431 BIX: greenber MCI: greenber CIS: 72461,3212 To subscribe, send mail to circ@utoday.UUCP with "Subject: Request"
mhyman@hsfmsh.UUCP (Marco S. Hyman) (09/09/89)
In article <983@utoday.UUCP> greenber@utoday.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg) writes: > Ross M. Greenberg, Review Editor, UNIX Today! greenber@utoday.UUCP ^^^^^^ Earlier in the same article he writes: > And we'd never want to make leftist pinko's angry, would we? :-) ^^^^^^^ Please educate this ignorant reader: what object is being possessed by the pinko? (All in fun ;-) --marc -- // Marco S. Hyman home: ...!pacbell!dumbcat!marc // UUCP: ...!hoptoad!hsfmsh!mhyman Domain: sfsun!hsfmsh!mhyman@sun.com