jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F Haugh II) (03/25/91)
In article <1ZtF0O#754Tp97th6rb6mgr9j5k5BVG=eric@snark.thyrsus.com> eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes: >for a grand total of 2972 blocks (and that's before we start on the talk >groups!). If the net is willing to tolerate *this* cruft every day, a >Jargon File reposting every two weeks is bupkes. You are crossposting into the comp tree, which is one part of the USENET heirarchy that people =do= tend to carry, even when they don't carry all of alt, talk, or soc. As a counter example to your argument that waste justifies more waste, here is alt on this machine - % du /usr/spool/news/alt | sort -n | tail -10 14 /usr/spool/news/alt/activism 14 /usr/spool/news/alt/config 46 /usr/spool/news/alt/security 84 /usr/spool/news/alt/sys/sun 86 /usr/spool/news/alt/sys 94 /usr/spool/news/alt/sources/d 1132 /usr/spool/news/alt/sources 1914 /usr/spool/news/alt/folklore/computers 1916 /usr/spool/news/alt/folklore 3222 /usr/spool/news/alt % ls -lR /usr/spool/news/talk /usr/spool/news/talk not found % du /usr/spool/news/soc | sort -n | tail -10 4 /usr/spool/news/soc/culture/celtic 8 /usr/spool/news/soc/culture/german 14 /usr/spool/news/soc/culture 16 /usr/spool/news/soc Clearly every system on USENET does not agree with your assessment that soc, talk, and alt.sex.pictures are very valuable items to be carried by everyone. There are quite a few major corporations (AT&T to name just one) that don't carry large portions of alt (I believe AT&T doesn't carry =any= of alt). Many companies carry neither talk nor soc. There are more efficient ways of distributing the "Jargon" file which don't involve posting every entry every time. To contrast your behavior against source postings, it would be like posting the entire source to Elm or Perl every other week when posting context diffs would be more efficient. What do the maintainers of Elm and Perl do? They post diffs. What does Eric do? He re-posts the entire object. You choose to crosspost to comp.misc just so you can get the distribution. I am sending a note to my newsfeed requesting that I no longer receive comp.misc. I encourage others who are tired of seeing their systems abused to do the same. -- John F. Haugh II | Distribution to | UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh Ma Bell: (512) 832-8832 | GEnie PROHIBITED :-) | Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org "I've never written a device driver, but I have written a device driver manual" -- Robert Hartman, IDE Corp.
peter@ficc.ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) (03/26/91)
In article <19119@rpp386.cactus.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F Haugh II) writes: > You choose to crosspost to comp.misc just so you can get the distribution. > I am sending a note to my newsfeed requesting that I no longer receive > comp.misc. I encourage others who are tired of seeing their systems abused > to do the same. Talking about horses and barn doors... you held off doing this until the final jargon file release (announced as such ahead of time... the intermediate ones didn't get sent to comp.misc... and as a result *I* at least never saw them). -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' peter@ferranti.com +1 713 274 5180. 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
csg@pyramid.pyramid.com (Carl S. Gutekunst) (03/27/91)
>Talking about horses and barn doors... you held off doing this until the final >jargon file release (announced as such ahead of time... the intermediate ones >didn't get sent to comp.misc... and as a result *I* at least never saw them). I don't think there's much doubt that a lot of people are interested in this work, nor that a lot of time and effort was put into it. As such, I'm not much opposed to posting it with the wider distribution, particularly when compared to the vast volumes of drek on the net as a whole. Then there's the people like me -- people who earned the name "hacker" before it became fasionable -- who find the new jargon file to be a waste of valuable disk space, the very antithesis of what it describes. But then I'm pretty much in a tiny minority.... :-) <csg>
greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) (04/01/91)
/* <19119@rpp386.cactus.org> by jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F Haugh II)
* In article <1ZtF0O#754Tp97th6rb6mgr9j5k5BVG=eric@snark.thyrsus.com> eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
* >for a grand total of 2972 blocks (and that's before we start on the talk
* >groups!). If the net is willing to tolerate *this* cruft every day, a
* >Jargon File reposting every two weeks is bupkes.
*
* You are crossposting into the comp tree, which is one part of the USENET
* heirarchy that people =do= tend to carry, even when they don't carry all
* of alt, talk, or soc. As a counter example to your argument that waste
* justifies more waste, here is alt on this machine -
[Statistics deleted ]
John, you're taking things out of context again and switching the argument
to suit your point of view.
* Clearly every system on USENET does not agree with your assessment that
* soc, talk, and alt.sex.pictures are very valuable items to be carried
* by everyone.
You did it again. NOWHERE did he state that they were valuable items;
he only stated that they take up lots of space. I agree that the last one
is the biggest waste of net.bandwidth ever to hit. I think I rmgroup'd it
here...
* There are quite a few major corporations (AT&T to name just one) that
* don't carry large portions of alt (I believe AT&T doesn't carry =any= of
* alt). Many companies carry neither talk nor soc.
Pity.
*
* There are more efficient ways of distributing the "Jargon" file which don't
* involve posting every entry every time. To contrast your behavior against
* source postings, it would be like posting the entire source to Elm or Perl
* every other week when posting context diffs would be more efficient. What
* do the maintainers of Elm and Perl do? They post diffs. What does Eric
* do? He re-posts the entire object.
Okay, so he reposts. Can you read, John? He says that it's *probably* *the*
*last* *distribution* *to* *receive* *a* *full* *posting*, and that *future*
*postings* *will* *appear* *as* *context* *diffs*.
*
* You choose to crosspost to comp.misc just so you can get the distribution.
So what's wrong with that!? He chooses to take a route to achieve some sig-
nificant distribution and you decide to cut him off? (see below)
* I am sending a note to my newsfeed requesting that I no longer receive
* comp.misc. I encourage others who are tired of seeing their systems abused
* to do the same.
Abused? I consider my system abused when megabytes of unwanted mail traffic
goes through. News? It's news. We feed, we are fed. No big deal.
And as far as your "encouragement" (which reeks of a closed mind, BTW!),
I think you're just a bit slow on the draw. If you were going to do this,
you should have done it when the file was posted for the second time.
You're locking the barn door after your only horse has been stolen.
* --
* John F. Haugh II | Distribution to | UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
* Ma Bell: (512) 832-8832 | GEnie PROHIBITED :-) | Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
* "I've never written a device driver, but I have written a device driver manual"
* -- Robert Hartman, IDE Corp.wcs) (04/02/91)
In article <3461@unisoft.UUCP> greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) writes:
]/* <19119@rpp386.cactus.org> by jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F Haugh II)
] * There are quite a few major corporations (AT&T to name just one) that
] * don't carry large portions of alt (I believe AT&T doesn't carry =any= of
] * alt). Many companies carry neither talk nor soc.
First of all, AT&T does carry alt. Our news gurus have negotiated
with management about what we can and cannot carry, and the primary
exceptions are talk.bizarre, *.flame, alt.sex.*, and alt.drugs.
We also have Internet access.
Is the Jargon File available by FTP anywhere? Eric periodically
sends me mail replies saying yes, it's on trix.ai.mit.edu!/pub/jargon,
but it's not there. I've noticed some errors go by, and I'd really
rather FTP the whole mess rather than assemble the pieces on my news
server and then ftp them to my home machine.
It's not tough to set up mail servers, like netlib or whatever Larry
Wall uses. Perhaps a simpler approach, if Eric or some kind person
has a spare account, to use the vacation-reply program to say
foo.bar.edu!jargon has gone.fission.
The Jargon File, Chapter 0:
.......
I'd do it, but I'm not root here, and they haven't got my Ethernet
connection installed for my exciting new Sun386i yet.
--
Pray for peace; Bill
# Bill Stewart 908-949-0705 erebus.att.com!wcs AT&T Bell Labs 4M-312 Holmdel NJ
"Don't Use Racist or Sexist Language" - Political Correctness Police Slogan
"Let's Beat Up That African-American" - Los Angeles Police Department Slogan